Well as some of you know my pumps needs starting springs. Today was the day to pull it. I talked to a few people and was pritty sure that I could get it out without problems.

It started fine, I pulled the injector lines off the injectors and than off the pump, easy enough. Next I started to pull the crank case cover, one of the people i talked to told me I needed to. Thats when it started. I soon relized that i didn't need to pull the cover but to only twist off the oil fill. I simpaly put the bolts back in the crank case. I than tryed to take off the fuel return line off. I started to turn it and didn't relise i was twisting the line and the nut, I twisted that untill it broke(anyone got one for sale). So now the pump i ready to be set at TDC, I find the pin and have my dad trun the key to start and let it off so it just bumps it over a little, figured that would be the best way. well the pin is stuck! dosen't even move, no play in it what so ever. So I call up a buddy who owns a big rig shop. He says to pull the pin out and free it up. I tryed to pull the pin but couldn't get the one of the screws out. And thats when the rain stated.

My friend who owns the shop also told me i would sheer off the pin by cranking it over with the starter. he said I have to hand crank it.

Where is the best place to crank this motor by hand?
How do I get this pin to move?
Where do I get the fuel return line?


Thanks Cooper

 

Why do you need the timing pin out??? Are you going to disassemble the pump?? If you are just going to remove the pump and take it to a shop.. you don't need to use the pin.. Turn the engine over.. (using a socket on the alternator usually will work.) Remove nut and washer on the front of the pump.. (don't drop them) find where the key is located.. turn the engine over until the key way is up... (this is so the key doesn't fall out.) Then remove the 3 bolts that hold on the pump.. Use the gear puller to remove the front gear.. (Don't forget the brace on the back of the pump, the return line and the line to the AFC.) As long as the gear is not moved (jumped teeth) then you will not have to retime the pump.. When installing, turn the pump to match the key way on the gear and it will be in time...
Good Luck,
Bryan

(Edit: its common for those fuel lines to twist like that... I'd replace them with rubber lines.. look for parts sold for the 24V's to replace the banjo fittings.. you'll need one for the pump.. and one for the filter housing.)

 

Does the pump turn at half camshaft speed? Is it possible to time the pump 180deg out? like a distributor in a gasser?

 

Not possible if you are just removing the pump like this... If you are timing the engine using the crank.. then it is possible to get the engine at TDC #6 instead of TDC #1.. but on engines where there is a Key on the timing gear, its not important to put the engine at TDC #1 when removing just the pump.. If you remove the gear, that's a different story... or if the pump does not have a key.

(if you put the engine at TDC#1, the key way on the pump is most likely going to be pointing straight down.. rotate it to the top for less chance of drop the key into the timing case cover.)
Bryan

Edit: Camshaft=pump speed

 

Pump turns at Camshaft speed...or half Crankshaft speed.

 

to free it up! it is stuck wont even move a lil!

nope

that just spins the pully not the entire belt.

are they located behind the nut and washer?


I am confused on how to set this at TDC. How is it done?

Thanks for all of the help Cooper

 

I don't think so. They will only go on one way. Edit: what JDGnut is right about pump timing. EXCEPT for: You DO NOT want an aftermarket banjo bolt in the back of the pump/fuel drain/return. This is how the pump builds its own pressure internally, with this banjo. It has very small holes in it. If you installed a high flow banjo, the pump wouldn't be able to build pressure internally.

Then again, its amazing how these pumps will still 'work/run' with parts removed/MIA or replaced.

 

If you are not dissembling the pump, just pull it anywhere, it doesn't need to be at TDC. Just pull it with the key way at 1 o clock or so, so it doesn't fall into the gear case. Yes you will see it with the nut and lock washer outta the way. Don't let the book scare you, this is easier than it looks. JD is right again about tdc #1, the keyway will be facing south.

On the alt nut, did you try turning it both ways? If neither way works, pull the fan/hub assembly, 4 -10mm bolts holding it to the block, once thats outta the way, you can put a socket on one of the dampner bolts to rotate the engine. Rotation is clockwise facing the engine.

 

Thanks for clearing me up on the pump speed, etc...

If you pulled the injectors out it will be easier to turn the engine over, I know its a little more work but.

 

You dont have to pull the 2 bolts holding the timing pin housing on the cover. The pin is actually held into the timing pin housing by a small lock ring. If you look at the backside of the timing housing you will see the lock ring. This is what prevents the pin from backing all the way out. Just take a pick and remove it. Then you can just slide the pin out. Grease the o-ring on the pin up and reinsert. I have run into alot of this on trucks with high miles. Just remove the star shaped lock ring, remove the pin, grease it up and put it back in.

 

Don't remove the housing for the timing pin. It is somewhat adjustable, and if the two screws are loosened, there is a procedure to set the housing so the timing pin will still be accurate. Try spinning the pin with your fingers, once it will turn, try working it back and forth until it's free.

 

I got the pin out the way monty told me to, it came out easy with a pair of vice girps on it! And the lil point on it is broken off in the gear! So what I did was stuck my finger in the hole and had my father hand crank the motor over untill I came to the hole. To my suprize the broken pin was still in the hole. Probaly broke when we were bumping the motor with the starter. I can't get the broken part out but I am going to just pull the pump how it is, the timing is close enough and if it is off a little I will have my buddy time it for me. I should have the pump out thursday afternoon and get some pics up for you.


Thanks for the help!!!


Cooper

 

While the broken piece is in view, heat up a pin until glowing red, then stick it into the broken plastic. When it cools, you should be able to pull it out with the pin.

 

When I was adjusting my valves today on my '89 D250 I tryed to free up the timing pin. When I pulled out on the pin it came out of the cylinder. No problem. I put it back in and continued to set TDC. I think the keeper was probably lost a long time ago. Will a keeper from the local parts store work or is it special? I don't think Cummins could have found a worse place to put this pin. I had to bump the engine till valves indicated compression stroke then got under the truck, stuck a 12 inch extention under the pump and against the pin and rotated from the flywheel till alignment.

 

It is a special keeper, but I've seen a few with the keeper missing, and it didn't hurt anything. There is enough friction on the pin that it won't fall out.