has anyone ever tried to put a 10 or 13 speed tranny in a 1st gen. truck is it possilbe?

 

I have dreamed about building a three speed transfer case to go on the back of the NV4500 transmission ever since it came out. I don't know of any transmission auxilliary package from fuller or spicer, etc. that is small enough to put in a pickup truck.<br><br>US Gear and Gearvendors do make overdrive auxilliary transmissions, however, that will fit in our trucks. They aren't exactly cheap, but they work. I personally prefer the US Gear design from a theoretical stance, and a couple of fellows on this site are running them. I think, though, that the Gear Vendors unit is more idiot proof. Both units give you a pretty progressive 9 speed transmission.<br><br>If you find anything better, please let me know.

 

[quote author=country link=board=9;threadid=9606;start=0#91782 date=1042523642]
has anyone ever tried to put a 10 or 13 speed tranny in a 1st gen. truck is it possilbe?
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Have you ever seen the size of a 10-13 speed along with the fact they have a 2&quot; input shaft and a large bellhousing
If your building a ground up special frame and truck then I would say its possable...but to fit a 13 speed into a stock Dodge I would think theres going to be alot of floor cutting involved and frame members added along with a special driveshaft

 

the Gear Vendor is the best unit IMO for several reasons, the main one being it acts as a tail shaft and has the extra support of actually being part of the tranny vs. being divorced. Just wish it had a little taller OD ratio

 

I have heard you can't rebuild a gear vendors, if they break, then it is busted and you buy a new one, throw away old unit! Is the other unit someone else here mentioned rebuildable? Up here in Alaska I am really leery about buying anything for over 2grand that can't be fixed on a bench!

 

I've not heard that. We have one in an 83 crew duallie, has never given any problems. They are good for 1000hp and a ton of miles if you look on their website. Very solid piece, the only downside to them is that they are expensive....but you get what you pay for

 

I was actually in a tranny shop checking out my race tranny when a guy brought one in, and it was broke! The tranny guy said &quot;ony thing you can do is buy a new one&quot;

 

My old boss has one in his 93 dually 4X4 and it was awesome for pulling a trailer especially when the trailer and the truck weighed about 31,000 lbs. The only problem that he had with it and i don't know which brand it was is that he blew two of them up. The first one he blew up before i started working for him and he had to buy a new one. The second one was still under warranty when that one blew up. I was driving behind him in a tunnel when he blew that one up and it was like a couple of shotguns went off in that tunnel. But i would say if your not pulling excessive weight i wouldn't put one on because i would pull that trailer with weighing about 20,000 and i wouldn't even used the extra gears.

 

I have seriously considered putting a Fuller RTO 958LL (10 spd) in my 93. I have seen a 10 spd in a Ford, an International pickup, and in a 96 Dodge all with Cummins power. All of these trucks were built from the ground up and NOTHING was stock. The major mods to your truck would be the bell hosing, flywheel, clutch, drivelines, crossmembers, frame and body modifications, and many other mods if you want this to be a good conversion that is ;D. What I am now looking into is a Spicer 5,6 or 7 speed, these are tuff and built to take abuse that the Getrag never could. One other BIG advantage it that of the clutch, if you put a truck clutch in your Dodge I doubt if you would ever have to change it or touch it ever again, it will probably out last the truck . They are also easier to install because of the smaller size. I am still looking to find one that I do not have to change the bell housing on my CTD to make it fit. The bottom line is that its a huge project and will cost some $$$$$ :'(, but you will be part of the few that did it differently .<br><br>NOTE, if you have a 2wd modle this conversion is much easier and it might even be possible .

 

The Cummins B in medium duty trucks uses a standard SAE bell housing and will mate the smaller Eaton transmissions. Eaton cross reference chart can mate the clutch and pilot bearing will be bigger. Twin countershaft transmissions are 3 times wider than the 5spd's and extensive body work would have to be done to the tranny tunnel or a major body lift. The drive shaft is no problem on a 2WD as the output yoke is easily mated to the driveshaft tube at a driveline builder. For 4WD this is complicated unless using an isolated transfer case like on pre-72-73 pickups using a seperate driveshaft between trans and T-case. 3spd T-cases are rare and you may be thinking of an aux trans like in a big truck but are also twin countershaft trannies very wide and very heavy (clark 1241c) which generally need the pup shaft in between. A good machinist can build adapter plates and couplers but if you are paying at a regular machine shop this is big bucks. NV5600 6spd's are cheaper and all pieces available to upgrade with minimal problems. These are tough parts but also realize were never intended for speed shifting and some have no synchromesh, also everything down line will then be vulnerable to breakage. Good Luck. PK

 

I mean that I have day dreamed about designing and having manufactured a transfer case that would replace the auxilliary case (the aluminum portion) of the NV 4500, have an overdrive and a very deep reduction gear, and a front and rear output shaft, emulating the three speed mated auxilliary set up that EATON uses in its roadranger family but with the addition of a front output. I think that you could make it short enough to fit into a Jeep, and tough enough for most applications (Not the sled puller out there, but most fella's who want to tow a trailer). I don't think that the demand for such an item is great enough to warrant its developement and manufacture, though . . .<br><br>(As for &quot;speed shifting&quot; -- that falls under making an engine brake so that you can slow that input shaft down. Why did they have to use individual valve covers for each cylindar!)<br><br>

 

Okay there is nothing wrong with dreaming but one has to realize physical weights and dimensions are the problem. One small Roadranger tranny will weigh as much as the engine and like I said use 3 times the space of the original. Drop boxes (T cases) are available for the higher torque inputs but again are very heavy and bulky in size. RR trannies are not snychronized and even if you could apply a functional Jake to speed shift you will not gain much other than excessive driveline wear and more headaches. When you uprate the components the weakest link will fail under abusive conditions, as you can actually manufacture a vehicle and they exist you will discover the cost is the key to actuality. There was a 1972 Ford 3/4 ton up here that had been modified like you dream of but was only a ford 3/4 ton on the registration and body only. The truck had to be sub-framed as the 1674 Cat 270 HP mated to a RTO613 with a 5 ton ford drop box and 2 1/2 military rearends was 11000lbs empty and the frame buckled. The guy that built it was subjected to hours of driveline vibration trouble shooting and adjustments. Initial purpose of the truck was a 5th wheel tow vehicle for a tandem dual 30ft gooseneck, don't know where it went. The concept of larger components being tougher is true however they will only tolerate so much abuse and will fail at higher repair costs than one realizes. Personally I liked my 91 with its individual valve covers as it was easier to get the back ones out from the maze under the hood. PK

 

Actually, I agree with you to very great extent it appears. (Though I would like to see that Ford). That is why my Jeep had a 6.2L Chevy in it. It had the best vibration to horsepower to weight ratio by my calculations. I could have put a 4Bt in the car -- and been welding cracks in the frame and sheet-metal every two weeks. The driveline in that car is in perfect shape -- I just left it parked with no emergency brake and the wheels cut the wrong way.<br><br>Back to the original issue -- I would like a lower gear in my truck, and I would like to be able to split my shifts, and have a double overdrive. Without having to put together a transmission that is eight feet long. E.G. an appropriately scaled down set-up like the roadranger. As far as I know there isn't much interest in such a thing, and nobody makes one. That doesn't mean I'm going to try to put a triple countershaft Mack 12 speed in my truck, though . . . nor does it mean that I am going to stop scheming about how I design an affordable, pick-up-truck-sized three speed transfer case to give me that lower low and the second overdrive.<br><br>Any suggestions, please let me know!

 

Just told my old man about this topic and he said that there was an old 3spd brownie made by Spicer out there that is small and light enough to put behind the transfer case or transmission. He said that they were in the old Ford and Chevy 2.5 or 5 ton trucks. He thought that the number for it was a 5831, if anyone finds it I've got dibs on it . So keep you eyes peeled for any old farm 2.5 or 5 ton trucks sitting around.