guhfluh

I'm looking into getting the KDP and pump timing done at the same time, but not sure I want to pay someone to do it yet if the price difference is too much more than the special tools required to do it myself. So far I have a price of $485 to do just the KDP and $660 to do the KDP and pump timing.

I called TnT performance in Baton Rouge. They are the old Gerhardt's Performance. Gerhardt's has been around for a long time, starting in New Orleans and I know they know their way around diesels over there. I've used them before on pumps, injectors, etc. when I worked as a marine mech.

Problem is, when I asked the guy at TnT how they do the timing, with the timing pins or dial indicator on a DV, he didn't know. I told him I needed to know, because you can't set the timing to a degree you want with the pins only(I want 15*) if you want anything other than stock. He just replied that they would set it to wherever best performance is and I wouldn't get much performance from any timing. Not the answer I was looking for.

From memory, tools I need to do it all myself:

Barring tool-------$xxx
Dial indicaror------HAVE
Big Freakin puller--$xxx
DV socket--------$xxx


What else am I missing, anyone have links to prices and also does anyone know of places around Baton Rouge or New Orleans who is trustworthy?

VICIOUS FISHER

send a pm to Tate, he is very knowledgeable on this subject

RollsCoal

You do not have to have the barring tool, but it is convenient. You don't need a big puller, only a small one. Two bolts screw into the pump gear, you then tighten the center screw of the puller and it pops the pump gear off the taper. You could even make this puller out of a piece of steel plate.

All I bought:

The dial indicator holder which screws into pump.

A dial indicator extender which screws to end of dial ind.

The del. valve socket.

A thrust washer and bearing set.

Barring tool. (not necessary if careful not to overtorque crank damper bolts)

guhfluh

I have a dial indicator and magnetic base which I might be able to use to keep it steady, but I thought there was a special adapter for fitting the dial plunger into the DV somehow...?

I've got a small 3-jaw puller I use on Neon crank pullies and a steering wheel type puller, but the last time I pulled a pump gear it took a hell of a lot to get it to break off the taper and that was with the special Miller puller. I wouldn't think my pullers would do it?

I also didn't think I would be able to turn the engine over with the crank pulley, being such a big, high compression engine. Is it really that easy?

What was the thrust washer and bearing for?

Tate

Get an oil pan drain plug, drill it for the dial to sit in, and drill and tap it for a set screw. That will screw into the pump. A mag base would be awkward in there, and much easier to bump it. But it would be doable.

There is no way I would do it without a barring tool. The degree of accuracy you can turn the engine by the alternator nut or damper bolts vs. a barring tool is huge. And the barring gear will hold the engine from rotating. The others won't.

You don't need a big puller. Mine is just a small steering wheel puller. Some of the hard gears to get off, I give the loaded puller a smack with a dead blow hammer, that gets it off.

The thrust washer is used for setting the gear to the shaft. I never used one, and have never had a problem with timing jumping while torqueing, or with it slipping later. As long as the shaft is clean and dry, it will be fine.

infidel

Get an oil pan drain plug, drill it for the dial to sit in, and drill and tap it for a set screw


I made my own barring tool by welding an old socket to the gear from a burned out starter.

sgreen3

You can get the acual timing kit of e-bay for 149.99 thats were i bought mine. Has the gauge, holder, and Dv socket. Now if I only knew how to use it,Lmao

Jungle

Is that a first gen IC motor oil pan plug?
Thanks, Jim

infidel

It's the same plug our 12 valves use.

RollsCoal

You do not have to have the thrust washer and bearing. It is used to set an initial torque value at around 18 lb ft if I recall. That is just to seat the gear onto the shaft. You then remove the thrust washer and bearing, and fully torque the nut.

The barring tool is nice. You need an extremely long extension to use it conveniently from above the engine. It is not 100% necessary. I was able to set the timing perfectly using the crank bolts on one of my trucks. I now have the barring tool. You just take your time, and dont get rough on the crank bolts.

I did not use the timing pin for TDC. I compressed the intake valve spring on the #1 cyl, and let the valve rest on top of the piston. You then gently rotate the engine over, while watching a dial indicator on that valve. Where the indicator maxes out is TDC, and you mark it on the crank and install a temporary pointer. I think this is better than the timing pin. I used the spring compressor sold by Geno's Garage.

As for locking the engine while torquing, you just put it in high gear and pull the E brake.

guhfluh

I need to research some more to try to get a good grasp on all of it, but if I get what you are saying, the above unit will screw into the pump where the DV goes and the hole I drilled will allow my dial shaft to fit down into it, then I snug the dial shaft down with the set screw. Is this correct?

Well, even for $150 for the tools from Ebay and $50 or so for the KDP kit, I think I would be easily far enough ahead in money to think it is worth it to do it myself. I am very detail oriented and very meticulous when I do things. Some call it **** Good for getting it done correct the 1st time, not so good for making a living as a mechanic I think $400 or so is worth my time to do it. Should I include pump DV seals/washers?

As for locking the engine, I have an auto, so I could either get the barring tool or wedge a prybar or similar in there. I have miles of 1/2" and 3/8" extensions for the barring tool safety swivels too.

I think I'll try my pullers. I have a good deadblow I can use if it's stubborn. Thanks for the advice.


Something I've wondered about using the valve to find TDC, or changing springs... when the pistons on these engines is at TDC, how much will the valves be allowed to drop? Is it too much to be able to put the springs(retainers and keepers) back on without having it fully seated? Asking because I don't want to take a chance of dropping a valve without any way of getting it back up; I don't have any way of putting air in the cyl or rope, like I do in a gas engine.

Thanks a lot for the info from everyone! It has helped me tremendously so far; I just need to do a little more research before I'm fully confident I know everything I need to get this done.

guhfluh

Ok, looks like Geno's for the barring tool and KDP kit - ~$105 and Peak Diesel Performance for the DV socket - $30.

Going to look for a oil drain plug, but where to look for seals for the DV that I need....hmmn?

A. Bomb

I recently picked up the complete Miller tool set for $140 off Ebay. Thats much preferred in my opinion over the guy selling the puller, indicator and adatper for the same price.

Kit came with
Barring tool
DV socket
DV adapter
TDC lock pin
Dial indicator
Some extra washers for the Delivery Valves
Thrust Washer dealy.

RollsCoal

First I watched the valves as I turned the engine over clockwise, until I knew the engine was on the compression stroke (intake valve has just closed, and exhaust valve will open after a period of rotation when both valves are closed).

I was careful not to let the keepers come off. After compressing the valve spring, I kept the rocker arm pressed against the top of the valve, which in turn holds the keepers in.

Then, while holding the rocker against the valve to keep the keepers on, I rotated the engine until I felt the piston contact the valve. At this point it will not matter if the keepers come off, because the piston supports the valve from dropping.

Here is a really good write up on this procedure:

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/f...7100-pump.html

guhfluh

The only thing I see on Ebay now is a DV adapter, socket, dial and puller for $189 or puller, dial and adapter for $149. Too much for me since I have pullers and can get a drain plug for cheap. If there was a full set like you got for $149, I'd probably get it. I think getting the barring tool from Geno's and socket from PDP is a better deal for me now.

Just need to locate somewhere to get the:

Delivery Valve Washer
Mopar number 4778483 or 4874514
Bosch - 2 410 101 014

delivery valve o-ring
Bosch number 2 410 210 033

Thanks for the link. I've seen it before, but it keeps me from searching again. I don't save much to favorites