Recipe for Performance
Recipe for Performance
I have a 97 Dodge 3500 SLT 4x4 auto with the 6BT. I have exhaust, intake, stage 2 injectors, a moshimoto radiator and transmission cooler and a stage 1.5 transmission from a shop in NM (I’d have to look back at the paperwork to see exactly what was done). Everything else is stock. I drive my truck a couple times a week and pull a double axle trailer, and will be eventually getting a boat so drivability is a must. I am looking at throwing more power at it but don’t want to limit myself in the future by the parts I install now if I want more power later on. Currently I’d like to see 5-600 hp. I was thinking my next step was a built injection pump or a lift pump to further support maybe a compound or twin turbo setup. Any guide or advice on which to do first or brands to stay away from or other mods I should do before then would be greatly appreciated.
*edit
odometer has roughly 160k and was previously used by an older couple to pull their 5th wheel to Yosemite a few times a year since they bought it in 96. I then bought it in 2017 with 107k miles for $8,000.
*edit
odometer has roughly 160k and was previously used by an older couple to pull their 5th wheel to Yosemite a few times a year since they bought it in 96. I then bought it in 2017 with 107k miles for $8,000.
You really need to do your governor springs. The difference is wow! You should consider removing your cat or drilling it out. Then you might want to think about delivery valves. You can hit 500+ without having your injection pump messed with. But before you do anything get yourself (at minimum) egt gauge. You have a gem of a power plant that can easily last you the rest of your life. Why risk it for the lack of a good gauge? I have Aubren instruments and Isspro both are first rate. If you look around on here, you'll find all you need to know.
Geuss I should update my sig.
Geuss I should update my sig.
500+
Gittyupgo, thanks for the advice!
Would you have any recommendations for type of governor springs and delivery valves?
I have already done my exhaust and removed the cat, if that’s what you were referring to. I also have a gauge pod with a trans temp, boost EGT gauges. Would there be any other minor tricks to get better results?
Would you have any recommendations for type of governor springs and delivery valves?
I have already done my exhaust and removed the cat, if that’s what you were referring to. I also have a gauge pod with a trans temp, boost EGT gauges. Would there be any other minor tricks to get better results?
I will go ahead and throw my experience in here before you continue your quest. You will find many on here who will tell you to get all the aftermarket products that they are trying to peddle. First you need to ask yourself what your driving habits are. If you drive like a normal person and want more power to pull or to impress your friends by pushing them back in the seat,you don't want to do many of the mods people push on this site. Torque is what you want. I will try to break it down simple.
Bigger Exhaust: If you tow big loads You don't want bigger exhaust. The 4 in is set up for low end torque. Switching to bigger exhaust will actually hurt your low end torque. The difference is very noticeable. You only want the big pipes if you plan on running higher RPM and you will not do this when towing. It will only give you benefits if you plan on adding governor springs and valve springs as well as timing bump and pump mods to run high RPM. You will need many more mods to properly accommodate this.
Delivery valves and bigger injectors are also not necessary and will actually cause more issues unless set up properly. Unless you want to blow a bunch of smoke for no reason. The bigger injectors you have will make the following more critical.
What you want to do is study on how to adjust your P pump. I must express caution here. Do one thing at a time, drive it a while, adjust more.... Doing too much at one time will get you confused and you can't go back! The fuel plate is the only thing you may want to consider purchasing. This is inside the P pump and you need to do your homework before attempting this. Watch videos, read and watch more videos. I suggest a 10 or 100 plate. You can grind your plate yourself but again you can't go back when things go bad. First you must mark where the old plate was mounted. It has 2 screws with slots for adjustment. Mount your new plate in the same position and drive. Now read about the star wheel and how to adjust. Make slight changes and drive. Be sure and count the turns you change and keep notes. If it smokes go back. Get a fell for how the star wheel effects the smoke. Get it where you get a slight haze under hard acceleration.
Okay you got the feel for it and want more. Now you can go back to the fuel plate. Loosen the 2 screws and slid it a little bit. tighten screws, reassemble and drive. Does it Smoke? if so back off the star wheel till you get a slight haze. Want more? repeat. Do not do too much at one time.
When you have all that and want more. You can consider a boost fooler or just pull the hose from the waste gate and plug it. You could also waste more hard earned coin on a boost controller but it is not necessary. Again does it smoke? You know the drill by now. Lots of smoke is just blowing smoke and you are actually losing power and puking raw fuel out of the exhaust making us diesel users get a bad rep.
Want more, read more about P pump adjustments, mack plugs, etc...
Forget about HP numbers unless you have access to dyno.
Factory lift pump is more than enough.
Delivery valves will make it smoke.
Finally injector changes should not be done casually. The spray pattern MUST match the pistons!!!!!!! If not you will burn in hell. Don't fall into the marine injector trap. They require different pistons and will burn. If you try studs you MUST retorque hot or you will blow gaskets. Turbo changes, too much boost will blow it! Keep EGTs below 1250 degrees F!!!!!!
One more thing that you don't hear much about is the overflow valve. It regulates the lift pump pressure inside the P pump. You can get one with a slightly higher pressure. It will not make much difference in drive ability. Hence the reason you don't hear about it. It does give you the confidence that the pump will not starve for fuel pressure. It is a ball and spring and after 30 years the spring may lose some tension.
Bigger Exhaust: If you tow big loads You don't want bigger exhaust. The 4 in is set up for low end torque. Switching to bigger exhaust will actually hurt your low end torque. The difference is very noticeable. You only want the big pipes if you plan on running higher RPM and you will not do this when towing. It will only give you benefits if you plan on adding governor springs and valve springs as well as timing bump and pump mods to run high RPM. You will need many more mods to properly accommodate this.
Delivery valves and bigger injectors are also not necessary and will actually cause more issues unless set up properly. Unless you want to blow a bunch of smoke for no reason. The bigger injectors you have will make the following more critical.
What you want to do is study on how to adjust your P pump. I must express caution here. Do one thing at a time, drive it a while, adjust more.... Doing too much at one time will get you confused and you can't go back! The fuel plate is the only thing you may want to consider purchasing. This is inside the P pump and you need to do your homework before attempting this. Watch videos, read and watch more videos. I suggest a 10 or 100 plate. You can grind your plate yourself but again you can't go back when things go bad. First you must mark where the old plate was mounted. It has 2 screws with slots for adjustment. Mount your new plate in the same position and drive. Now read about the star wheel and how to adjust. Make slight changes and drive. Be sure and count the turns you change and keep notes. If it smokes go back. Get a fell for how the star wheel effects the smoke. Get it where you get a slight haze under hard acceleration.
Okay you got the feel for it and want more. Now you can go back to the fuel plate. Loosen the 2 screws and slid it a little bit. tighten screws, reassemble and drive. Does it Smoke? if so back off the star wheel till you get a slight haze. Want more? repeat. Do not do too much at one time.
When you have all that and want more. You can consider a boost fooler or just pull the hose from the waste gate and plug it. You could also waste more hard earned coin on a boost controller but it is not necessary. Again does it smoke? You know the drill by now. Lots of smoke is just blowing smoke and you are actually losing power and puking raw fuel out of the exhaust making us diesel users get a bad rep.
Want more, read more about P pump adjustments, mack plugs, etc...
Forget about HP numbers unless you have access to dyno.
Factory lift pump is more than enough.
Delivery valves will make it smoke.
Finally injector changes should not be done casually. The spray pattern MUST match the pistons!!!!!!! If not you will burn in hell. Don't fall into the marine injector trap. They require different pistons and will burn. If you try studs you MUST retorque hot or you will blow gaskets. Turbo changes, too much boost will blow it! Keep EGTs below 1250 degrees F!!!!!!
One more thing that you don't hear much about is the overflow valve. It regulates the lift pump pressure inside the P pump. You can get one with a slightly higher pressure. It will not make much difference in drive ability. Hence the reason you don't hear about it. It does give you the confidence that the pump will not starve for fuel pressure. It is a ball and spring and after 30 years the spring may lose some tension.
Did you adjust your fuel plate or get an upgrade? I like #10 but everyone has different thoughts on that. If your handy you can take yours out and grind it yourself. Just go slow it would be hard to screw it up. Not sure if you can still print out patterns from this site, but it's got to be on the net someplace. Or I've heard the ones on eBay are fine to use. I think there down to about $100. You'll get some nice gain there even just moving yours. IF it hasn't been messed with.
This is the thing about the springs. When I did my valve springs, I got good Cummins ones because it is possible for a broken valve spring to take a motor out. Lots of good springs out there. I just saw Cummins ones (60lb) over stock all 12 for about $100 shipped but that's valve springs. I hate telling this but-- on my gov. springs I got some really cheap ones off amazon. I can dig up the info on them if you want but not sure I can really recommend them if you know what I mean. They were $15-$20 and I have nothing bad to say about them. You'll want to read up on putting those in because there is some subtle adjustments you can make when you do it. With out upping your valve springs you'll want to stay well under 4000 r.p.m. I vividly remember the first test drive after installing my gov. springs, and it was sweeeet. You do the fuel plate and gov. springs, and it will be a whole new truck no exaggeration. Just remember to watch those egt's Did you adjust the afc and star wheel yet? If not add that in when you do the fuel plate, you'll be in there anyway.
Yep, that's what I meant about your cat.
This is the thing about the springs. When I did my valve springs, I got good Cummins ones because it is possible for a broken valve spring to take a motor out. Lots of good springs out there. I just saw Cummins ones (60lb) over stock all 12 for about $100 shipped but that's valve springs. I hate telling this but-- on my gov. springs I got some really cheap ones off amazon. I can dig up the info on them if you want but not sure I can really recommend them if you know what I mean. They were $15-$20 and I have nothing bad to say about them. You'll want to read up on putting those in because there is some subtle adjustments you can make when you do it. With out upping your valve springs you'll want to stay well under 4000 r.p.m. I vividly remember the first test drive after installing my gov. springs, and it was sweeeet. You do the fuel plate and gov. springs, and it will be a whole new truck no exaggeration. Just remember to watch those egt's Did you adjust the afc and star wheel yet? If not add that in when you do the fuel plate, you'll be in there anyway.
Yep, that's what I meant about your cat.
I didn't see Dguru's post before I posted mine, but for the most part I don't disagree with his advice. However, I did do my plate and afc at the same time then messed with the afc a lot more to get it how I wanted. Asfor a lot of black smoke, to me it's just wasted cash.
I know you said you did transmission mods. Not sure what but I would get a transgo TFOD diesel kit and install it. Do not get to carried away with the drill! Set the pressure to about 110PSI. Yes another gauge for your pod. Also put a resistor in place of the factory trans temperature sensor and add a temperature gauge to your pod. Finally add a push button switch to your dash ground one side and run a wire to the converter lock solenoid wire on the trans plug. Now you can get it rolling in first hit your button in as it hits second or when needed. Now you have what I label as a "semislush". It locks up the converter and pulls like a mother. The push button is used because the computer will hold it locked when going over 45 like it is now. You don't want to roll to a stop with the converter locked. People will laugh at you. The transgo kit enables the converter lock in all gears but 1 and R.
Factory pressure is about 50psi so 110 over doubles your holding power. any more will require you to install the included teflon rings on the stator shaft and may result in erratic operation.
Another good deal is to be on the lookout foe a 47RE or 48RE for cheep. Pull the rotating assy out and swap into your RH housing and reuse your old valve body and overdrive section. Be sure and read about what rings to remove from the stator shaft first because the newer transmission had some extra seal rings that will not work wit the RH. This will give you extra clutches and stronger shafts for cheep without wasting coin on aftermarket billet. Use the 48re pump if you get one cause it has a higher volume pump.
Are you hard core and want more? Get some thin Alto clutches and Koline steels so you can stack a few more clutches in the packs. Give Dave Goerend a call if your wallet is fat. He has an awesome 3 disk converter and backs it up for life.
Always put the trans in N for a few seconds before switching to D the first time you crank it each day. Dodge converters always drain overnight and have to pump up again. It does NOT pump in Park! Switching directly to drive will slip first gear for a few seconds till pressure builds. This kills it fast.
Now you will not have to have your slushbox rebuilt every 80K miles.
Sorry to mods because this thread should be in the performance section.
Factory pressure is about 50psi so 110 over doubles your holding power. any more will require you to install the included teflon rings on the stator shaft and may result in erratic operation.
Another good deal is to be on the lookout foe a 47RE or 48RE for cheep. Pull the rotating assy out and swap into your RH housing and reuse your old valve body and overdrive section. Be sure and read about what rings to remove from the stator shaft first because the newer transmission had some extra seal rings that will not work wit the RH. This will give you extra clutches and stronger shafts for cheep without wasting coin on aftermarket billet. Use the 48re pump if you get one cause it has a higher volume pump.
Are you hard core and want more? Get some thin Alto clutches and Koline steels so you can stack a few more clutches in the packs. Give Dave Goerend a call if your wallet is fat. He has an awesome 3 disk converter and backs it up for life.
Always put the trans in N for a few seconds before switching to D the first time you crank it each day. Dodge converters always drain overnight and have to pump up again. It does NOT pump in Park! Switching directly to drive will slip first gear for a few seconds till pressure builds. This kills it fast.
Now you will not have to have your slushbox rebuilt every 80K miles.
Sorry to mods because this thread should be in the performance section.
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