1-5-3-6-2-4

ok, long story, short. removed good running 12v from '95 2500 dodge installed into '97 chevy. running problem arose between removing from dodge and installing in chevy.


while engine was out
#1- killed KPD
#2- checked timing, verified pump 838 160 pump - was set @ 27*BTDC though it was odd checked 3 times. but reset too 5.5mm plunger lift.
#3- ground plate to zero
#4- 3K GSK from DTT that I got with their billet converter and VB. stud protrution .052-.053" all appears to have gone together fine.
#5- engine was sitting out of truck for 6 months.


Installed engine. replaced fuel filter, fired up running out of a jerry can on the fender. Idled very good, smooth, after air passed. but smoked raw eye burning exhaust, missed, burped and farted when throttle is applyed. we can get about 1000-1200 good clean running before the symptoms show. will not build any more RPM just searing exhaust, and backfireing. verifyed base timing on pump and drop valve @ #1 TDC. multiple times. visual verification @ pump lock arm in the side of pump.


Is it governor spring issue? or some magical timing error? other factor?

unable to get video at this point but will try to get some sound video asap./

Lil Dog

The timing seems suspect to me. I would think it should be near the 11.5° mark with a plunger lift of 5.5 mm. I wonder why the pump was so far off to begin with.. Maybe there is an internal pump problem?

Tate

How did the engine start before you adjusted the timing? I know when I adjusted Chris' timing on his 96, his was set to 24 degrees. But it was a bear to start before. It started a lot easier after we put it to 15ish. If yours started easy when it was at 27, might want to bump it up. I'd bump the timing up to atleast 6.4mm and try it again anyway.

Lil Dog

Why is/was the timing so high???

1-5-3-6-2-4

see thats what i was wondering at the time. I used Tates guages that 1st time. I reset it. then I used my bluepoint set. it really was that far out. I'm not sure why it was. It cranked a little long when the engine was still in the Dodge. but ran great for what it was. the truck did a little burn out in the shop before it was cut up. so we know it used to get full RPM no brutal smoke, and no backfireing.

base timing on the engine plate is 12.3degrees. the pump plate says it is a 838 pump. I verifyed base timing last night, with the pump lockout pin, drop valve checked the cam pin. all is on the money. and still runs like a ratbag.

I will push the timing back up and see what happens. If it fixes it, I want to know why the plunger lift to degree scale is out of whack.

infidel

Usually when someone gets way high timing numbers over and over it indicates they are doing something wrong.
Sometimes after doing it wrong it's hard to catch the mistake even if you follow the instructions closely. Brain cloud.
Maybe have someone else help.

Lil Dog

The problem with Chris's truck was that the guys who were setting the timing used an industrial spec chart on his truck.

I still don't get where the timing is getting out of whack.. I would reset TDC on the damper, and reset the pump TDC with its internal pin and start from there to get proper advance. Something is not right... It almost sounds like you are getting the timing on the other side of TDC (opposite rotation).

Swarthy Dago

backfireing sputtering indicates to me it's advanced too much IMHO

1-5-3-6-2-4

thing is though, as of right now it is set at base spec. fires right up with one optima cranking it. idles like gold, no smoke, no miss. it you just crack the throttle it ramps up great, until you hit about (no tach hooked up) 1250-ish rpm. then chokes burps and farts and belches white burning smoke. and will not gain anymore rpm. now the white searing smoke indicates a timing problem to me.......... but that should be virtually impossible with the 2 timing indicators verified.

the cam pin is set at absolute TDC, verified with the drop valve. and with the cam pin engauged. I can lock the pump if I wanted. also did cylinder cutouts. all 6 pass equally. injectors are pumping, and each hole has compression of somesort at least.

I will advance with the timing to 6.5mm again and report back, might be a couple days till I can get back to the truck though.

robert chilton

I think that you are rotating the motor backwords when setting the timing. I did that when switching to a 215 pump. Ran real good but cost me a head gasket. Make sure that you are turning the motor over the right direction!

Lil Dog

Thats what I was getting at. I think the rotation is wrong..

1-5-3-6-2-4

I don't think I did that wrong. you never know but I don't think so. crankshaft rotates to the driverside no matter what end you're looking at.

ok so say I did that, say set it up 12.3* after TDC then how is it possible for my base timing marks to be aligned?

Lil Dog

I wouldn't think you did, but I tend to screw up when I think about it too much. Start double checking and get all messed up... Anyhow.. I have to think about this more.

1-5-3-6-2-4

its really a very simple procedure. I cant see how I duffed it up. doing a valve set on a 20v MTU is far more brain bending, even with a chart


now I'm not saying I didn't bone it though............

Tate

If your pins both pop in, then it should be good to go. You verified TDC with the drop valve method, so you can be fairly certain that the cam wasn't removed and replaced incorrectly. The pin in the pump could have been moved, but verifying with the dial suggests that it hasn't.

Have you checked your fuel pressure? Low pressure would probably cause similar symptoms.