ZPOD

1995 Dodge Ram 2500 12 Valve Diesel.
Fuel leak at the Water Drain Valve. This was so frustrating because the fuel filter should have never been placed where it is for reasons of difficult frequent access. At first the leak appeared to be at the valve itself so for $60 I bought a new one that only the dealer supplies.

I installed the new bleeder valve which had a new o-ring and I cranked the new part on tight. The leak continued. Finally after 6 or more removals and installs spending most of a day absorbing large quantities of Diesel fuel into my blood stream via my skin pores, enough to give a lab rat cancer then I finally figured out that this is a serious design problem.

The o-ring had to go. I was looking for a a thick flat washer. When you change this part you'll notice that the valve has a flat surface that meets up perfectly with the flat filter surface as if it were originally and brilliantly designed to hold a flat washer but Chrysler must have had budget cuts, fired the ingenious designer then brought in a lesser educated lower paid engineer to finish the job, now we all suffer the consequence. Could the designers see something so simple? Apparently not! But once I realized the problem was with the o-ring then I quickly found a fix.

The auto parts stores did not have what I was looking for. I went to Lowe's hardware store and found a flat rubber washer that works perfectly.
First remove the o-ring and throw it away. The flat rubber washer fits really tight over the shaft of the bleeder valve where the o-ring once was and is over sized on the outer edge which once screwed on tight creates a downward cone. This turned out to be perfect because now if it should ever leak you will know if the fuel is leaking from the filter contact or from the internal bleeder valve seals.
The scan code for the Lowe's rubber seal is 0-08236-76955-5 or part number is H#882648 It's labeled as "Rubber Washers 3/4 x 2-1/4 x 1/8"

I think this rubber seal was one or two dollars and could have fixed the leak before I spent $60 but now you know not to make the same mistake. Does Chrysler care? I seriously doubt it because they made $60 off of my prior ignorance & I suspect most would just take it into the dealer spending more money but hey, they need to make money just the same as you and me.

Lary Ellis (Top)

I had this problem one time on my 96...the filter was bad and would not allow the O-Ring to seal properly. It was a Wix filter and I have used many of them over the years with great success, but this one had a manufacturing flaw. You could see where the filter housing was only partially "punched" in the press that makes the O-ring indent so the o-ring would not seal. I took it back to the parts store and looked at several other filters they had in stock and none of them looked the same as the bad one.

I guess one just slipped by quality control and perhaps you got another one That rubber seal you bought may or may not last very long unless the compound is made to resist diesel fuel. Diesel has a tendency to soften and rot certain types of rubber so keep an eye on your patch job.

ZPOD

That's good to know. I have seen other posts in other forums with the same problem sometimes due to old seals so those don't count but the ones where a new seal did not fix the problem are duplicate to my issue. I am thinking perhaps I should stay away from the WIX filter if using the o-ring. I had assumed that I would be safe if I stuck with the original filter yet I saw no flaw in the filter where the o-ring normally sits.

I was concerned about the seal I used standing up to the fuel so I will buy another seal and soak it in a jar of Diesel fuel to see what it does, last thing I need is to have that blow out or clog the filter while pulling a load. I was hoping someone else could pitch in on a specific flat seal to purchase that will hold up to the fuel. The thick flat (fuel resistant) seal is the way to go as it would seal even the defective fuel filter canisters.

infidel

That's because you don't know the "trick".
On '94-'96 if you remove the two nuts that hold the brake master cylinder to the booster the whole unit will swing easily towards the fender giving you a ton of room to work on the filter.
As for frequent access, I use a fuel pressure gauge to determine when to change the filter and usually go around 40k miles between changes.
More than pays for the gauge by eliminating just two unnecessary changes.

ZPOD

That's interesting and very clever, I never would have thought of that, but there are metal break lines attached to the master cylinder. Is there enough play so that those lines don't bend or cause break fluid leaks?

The fuel gauge is brilliant, thanks to you I am now a little bit smarter than I was one minute ago... Seriously, I really am.

infidel

The metal lines on the MC are deceiving, you don't have to bend them at all to move the MC.
Pulling the vacuum hose off the brake booster gives you even more room to work.

Fuel pressure gauge instructions> http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94...-12-valve.html

ZPOD

It has been 2 days so far since I dropped the extra rubber washer into a jar of Diesel fuel and it has not been affected by the fuel. Still firm yet pliable and not expanded or saturated. If it should break down I will post it here.

ZPOD

You are right. That seal was beginning to crack and swell.
I had more fuel leaks behind the fuel filter from the lines so I pulled it all out, returned the stupid WIX filter, bought a FRAM and noticed a difference in the design where the original o-ring sits. I will never buy WIX fuel filters again. With the FRAM I was able to go back to the original o-ring but a fuel resistant flat washer is still the better idea.

Since I had the entire bracket unit removed and using a pipe cutter to cut metal lines I decided it was time to relocate the fuel filter to a more sensible spot. 3 days later I am so happy with my conversion and will post photos and details later.

Lary Ellis (Top)

I hope you used high quality diesel rated fuel lines when you made your relocation or you will have the same problem with them as you did with the washer

ZPOD

When I changed out the fuel sensor in the tank I used whatever the parts guy at the dealer parts recommended which was a standard fuel line but before closing the lid on the project I called back and spoke with a long term Dodge Diesel mechanic there and he ensured me the lines were suitable.

When I went back to the dealer with this new project I spoke in person with the mechanic and showed him fuel pressure specs in relation to the lines suggested. He said the specs were correct and the fuel lines were sufficient. I was still concerned and went to Checkers and bought the rubber fuel injection lines instead which are rated as multi-fuel and up to 180psi instead of 50psi, I decided for peace of mind that overkill would be better, that 180psi line is $6 per foot. The odd thing is that if you look at the two hoses side by side it feels like the 50psi hose is thicker than the 180psi hose.

infidel

Pressure holding capacity of the hose is no issue.
The problem is that most hose isn't compatible with diesel fuel and will melt. This incompatibility is further magnified with 2-5% biodiesel which is slowly becoming mandatory in all states.

Most gas fuel injection hose isn't compatible with diesel, lots of people have been burnt by it.
Never trust the auto parts yo-yos who say all hose is compatible with diesel, it's very far from the truth.
Only hose I've used for many years is Trident Barrier Lined A1-15, tough stuff that will easily outlast the truck.

ZPOD

I found it. It has a 5 year warranty which might indicate that it does break down but definitely a superior flexible fuel line for Diesel and other fuel mixtures.
-----
Description:

Trident "Barrier Lined" Type A1-15 Marine Fuel Hose #365
Trident Barrier Lined A1-15 Fuel Hose (Distribution, Return, Vent, and Transfer) for both gasoline (petrol) and diesel (including alcohol blends). Exceeds ABYC H-24 & H-33, SAE J1527, ISO 7840, & USCG Type A1; and is NMMA Type Accepted & CE certified. It is also compliant with CARB Regulations. Built with best fuel, fire and age resistant formulation, 2 spiral reinforcement and unique "Barrier Liner" on inside surface of tube so fuel is not in direct contact with rubber. Provides extraordinary resistance to fuel permeation and aging, as well as fire, heat, cold, and ozone. Also good

Bend-ability.
5 YEAR WARRANTY
http://www.tridentmarine.com/stage/fuel.htm
--------

The injector lines I bought do say multi-fuel, I felt safe with that but you are right, the fuel is ever changing. I do not want to risk fuel line rupture but most of all I certainly don't want to risk mechanical failure, I wouldn't want the rubber to soften, tear loose internally then clog the injectors etc. I should order this hose right away. Thanks for your advice.

infidel

If I'm not mistaken when they say multi-fuel what they are referring to is ethanol, not diesel.

Someone found a source for the Trident hose online in San Diego that was way cheaper than any other source.
Thought I saved the link but can't find it. Maybe on the other computer...

ZPOD

I decided to go down to Diesel's Only in Denver. The owner and the shop has been there for 25years. All they do is work on Diesels. I spoke directly with the owner who I saw there when I had a Diesel Oldsmobile 12 yrs ago. Owning that car with that engine was a huge mistake.

I showed him the different rubber fuel lines that I used on the truck, he confirmed they were perfectly fine to use with Diesel fuel and will easily withstand the pressure.

Hose 5/16" Fuel line SAE 30R7
Hose Multi-Fuel 4219
Hose 3/16" SAE 30R7 Not For Fuel Injection Systems

Regardless of that last statement printed directly on the hose the mechanics insist that this hose is perfectly fine to use and that the fuel injection system pressure is not that of some cars in which that statement was intended.

Then we discussed Bio-Diesel. Bio-Diesel deteriorates even the rubber seals in the injection system and will affect the rubber in the lines, so even if I convert to a better flexible line then going green (or greener) Bio-Diesel will dissolve internal rubber seals and you will pay the price for using it at the mechanic.

In addition pure vegetable oil is bad for Diesels because there is not sufficient lubrication in the oil, it will destroy the engine over time and it creates too much heat on shut down. If there is any fat poured into the vegetable oil barrel from the restaurants then the fat will cake to the walls of your exhaust system clogging it up then over heating your engine.

On a positive note, he said you can burn used transmission fluid and motor oil if it is filtered real good. So Going Green will damage your Diesel engine and pouring other polluting oils into your fuel tank is better for your engine.

The positive note on using transmission fluid as fuel is that it doesn't gel in the winter and supposedly has all the lubricant if not more than the Diesel engine requires. I asked the transmission shop where my truck is now being worked on if I can have their used transmission oil. He says they use all of it to burn in their oil burners in the winter and sometimes run out and have to buy used oil from other shops so finding free trans oil will be harder to find nowadays.

Lary Ellis (Top)

You need to find a new mechanic, putting transmission fluid in your fuel tank is a big no-no...... 25 30 years ago many of the old timers did it but modern transmission fluids have changed dramatically since then with friction modifiers that can cause damage to your expensive fuel system.

Trans fluid does not burn like it used to, instead those friction modifiers that help the clutches in your transmission get a firm grip, act like sand and destroy the internals of your injection pump and injectors. A quick read on this forum will let you know that it is a really bad idea.

Again as already stated, the fuel pressure characteristics of the rubber fuel line are of no concern as it is a low pressure system. What is a concern is the hose melts away if it is not specifically designed for diesel use. The original hose Dodge put on my 96 truck fell apart after about 3 years because it was NOT diesel rated fuel line.