Quickly and CORRECTLY install your front crankshaft seal
12-03-2006, 01:12 AM
#1
1st Generation Admin
Thread Starter
Quickly and CORRECTLY install your front crankshaft seal
As most of you, I've been into the 5.9's gear-case if only to address the Killer Dowel Pin (KDP) question. As is standard procedure, one is to replace the front crankshaft seal.
So I recently rebuilt my oil leaking vacuum pump only to discover the crankshaft seal's leaking oil as well. This is the same seal I replaced when I first started Bombing my heap and did the KDP/coat-hanger wire trick.
I followed the instruction as is typically found in "The Sticky" regarding killing your KDP. Using that as an example, it's apparently common to install the seal in the gear housing cover before installing the cover. This is contrary to the OEM instruction. If you've replaced yours, there's a good chance you understand them boys are kinda funny.
The problem as I see it is that most of us work on the engine as it's installed in the truck. Not on a stand with 100% free access.
And there's the kicker. The verbage implies (IMO) you've 100% free access to the installed seal.
The following is an excerpt of the gear-case cover install as found in the Cummins B Series Shop Manual (The Dodge FSM is consistent). Here, we're specifically dealing with installing the crankshaft seal ~
Yeah, Right! 12, 3, 6 . . . . time for a Dr Pepper. With my belly hiked up on the radiator while doing this too. 
Even with the radiator removed one can't hit the installation tool squarely, much less dead on time. You end up beating the seal stupid chasing the side that popped-up with the last blow. The results are a damaged pilot and/or seal. The pilot's made of plastic and rather thin. The other end of the hammer's dinging the radiator fins BTW. DOH!
That's exactly why many have you install the seal into the cover before installing the cover. The thing I've found with that is that dern pilot. There's a very good chance of damaging the seals surface or pilot tool when mounting the seal on the pilot once installed in the cover.
That's why Dodge packages the seal already mounted on the pilot. More notes on that shortly.
So, here's my point.
Right off, I'm not so sure all seal vendors include the pilot and seal installation/depth setting tool (the one you drive the seal home with).
With that, I've been using the Dodge seal kit part number 5012290AA. Referring to the installation instruction presented above, the Dodge kit does not include the pilot tool used to center the gear cover on the crankshaft. I don't know about the Cummins kit part number 3904353. I got the Dodge version so that's what I have to work with.
Either way!
The new seal comes pre-mounted on the pilot sleeve. It's NOT packing material as was thought by the Dodge parts man!
Do NOT separate the two.
Let's see, . . . center the thing while not pounding it stupid . . . . . nope, this ain't gonna happen! Gotta come up with a better way. . . . . . .
Here's the meat and 'taders of all this rambling . . . .
It just so happens that a piece of regular 3"OD thin-wall pipe just fits into the groove of the tool used to drive the seal home. I had some scrap aluminum turbo/intercooler pipe. A piece cut to a little more than 1.5" worked for me.
Hmmmm . . ..
So there you go. For me, this was a quick and easy install once I figured it out. I didn't destroy an expensive seal while pounding the back-side of my radiator. I think it keeps pretty well within the goal of the authoritive instruction as presented by Cummins and Dodge.
Hope it works for you too.
So I recently rebuilt my oil leaking vacuum pump only to discover the crankshaft seal's leaking oil as well. This is the same seal I replaced when I first started Bombing my heap and did the KDP/coat-hanger wire trick.
I followed the instruction as is typically found in "The Sticky" regarding killing your KDP. Using that as an example, it's apparently common to install the seal in the gear housing cover before installing the cover. This is contrary to the OEM instruction. If you've replaced yours, there's a good chance you understand them boys are kinda funny.
The problem as I see it is that most of us work on the engine as it's installed in the truck. Not on a stand with 100% free access.
And there's the kicker. The verbage implies (IMO) you've 100% free access to the installed seal.
The following is an excerpt of the gear-case cover install as found in the Cummins B Series Shop Manual (The Dodge FSM is consistent). Here, we're specifically dealing with installing the crankshaft seal ~
Originally Posted by Cummins B Series Shop Manual
(You've got a new gasket on the clean/ready gear-cover at this point and the crankshaft sealing surface is absolutely clean and dry. . . . )
- Use the alignment tool packaged in the seal kit to align the cover to the crankshaft.
- Remove the alignment/installation tool after tightening the cap-screws.
Torque Value: 24 Nm [18 ft-lb]
Caution: Always use a seal pilot when installing the front seal.
- Apply a bead of Loc-Tite* to the outside diameter of the seal and install the pre-packaged pilot and seal over the crankshaft. Push the seal onto the crankshaft and start it into the front cover.
Remove the pilot.
Caution: Alternately, drive the seal at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 O'Clock positions to prevent bending the seal carrier during installation.
- Use the alignment and installation tool packaged in the seal kit to drive the seal to the correct depth.
(Complete your work)
- Use the alignment tool packaged in the seal kit to align the cover to the crankshaft.
- Remove the alignment/installation tool after tightening the cap-screws.
Torque Value: 24 Nm [18 ft-lb]
Caution: Always use a seal pilot when installing the front seal.
- Apply a bead of Loc-Tite* to the outside diameter of the seal and install the pre-packaged pilot and seal over the crankshaft. Push the seal onto the crankshaft and start it into the front cover.
Remove the pilot.
Caution: Alternately, drive the seal at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 O'Clock positions to prevent bending the seal carrier during installation.
- Use the alignment and installation tool packaged in the seal kit to drive the seal to the correct depth.
(Complete your work)
Even with the radiator removed one can't hit the installation tool squarely, much less dead on time. You end up beating the seal stupid chasing the side that popped-up with the last blow. The results are a damaged pilot and/or seal. The pilot's made of plastic and rather thin. The other end of the hammer's dinging the radiator fins BTW. DOH!
That's exactly why many have you install the seal into the cover before installing the cover. The thing I've found with that is that dern pilot. There's a very good chance of damaging the seals surface or pilot tool when mounting the seal on the pilot once installed in the cover.
That's why Dodge packages the seal already mounted on the pilot. More notes on that shortly.
So, here's my point.
Right off, I'm not so sure all seal vendors include the pilot and seal installation/depth setting tool (the one you drive the seal home with).
With that, I've been using the Dodge seal kit part number 5012290AA. Referring to the installation instruction presented above, the Dodge kit does not include the pilot tool used to center the gear cover on the crankshaft. I don't know about the Cummins kit part number 3904353. I got the Dodge version so that's what I have to work with.
Either way!
The new seal comes pre-mounted on the pilot sleeve. It's NOT packing material as was thought by the Dodge parts man!
Do NOT separate the two.Let's see, . . . center the thing while not pounding it stupid . . . . . nope, this ain't gonna happen! Gotta come up with a better way. . . . . . .
Here's the meat and 'taders of all this rambling . . . .
It just so happens that a piece of regular 3"OD thin-wall pipe just fits into the groove of the tool used to drive the seal home. I had some scrap aluminum turbo/intercooler pipe. A piece cut to a little more than 1.5" worked for me.
Hmmmm . . ..
~ Assemble the gear-cover with new gasket material as required.
~ Throughly clean the crankshaft sealing surface of ALL material. Do NOT lubricate the surface with oil! This WILL damage the installed seal! (There's apparently some initial Teflon-layered seal wiping on start-up that "Sets" the new seal to the crankshaft surface. A lubricant at that point interferes with the initial "Set").
~ Install the gear-cover onto the engine taking care not to soil the crankshaft sealing surface. Leave the cap-screws loose for now.
~ Carefully coat the outer diameter of the new seal with Loc-Tite or similar.
~ Carefully place the plastic pilot and seal onto the crankshaft stub.
~ Holding the seal in place, position the Installation/Depth setting tool centered on the seals carrier. (The narrow side goes against the seals carrier. The flange that is now facing you acts as the stop when you drive the seal home resulting in the correct install depth).
Here's the neat part . . . .
~ Place the short piece of tubing into the groove of the Installation/Depth setting tool.
~ Place a 4' or so piece of a sound 2X4 with its end resting on the rear edge of the cross-member below the engine damper.
~ Center the broad side of the 2X4 against the seal/tool/tubing stack.
~ Wedge something solid between the front/bottom of the 2X4 and the front of that cross-member. I used a big-headed hammer. We want to make a solid pivot point. The tool you've now set-up is a basic fulcrum in its action. (You may have to experiment with the position of your hammer for the fulcrum to press effectively on the tube . . . . you'll figure something out ).
~ Ensuring things are in the proper position and centered, lean firmly on the top of the 2X4. You'll see the gear cover flex toward the engine slightly and the seal slide perfectly into place. If you cut the little piece of tubing slightly crooked, you can rotate it so as to allow near perfect alignment of the tube and 2X4. That way you can fully seat the seal in the correct position all the way around. Having no access to the cover centering tool, I'm assuming the newly installed seal has automatically aligned the cover to the crankshaft as it was pressed into place.
~ Remove 2X4, hammer, piece of tubing, and the seal Installation/Depth setting tool.
~ Snug all cap-screws hand tight, then torque to 18ft-lb.
~ Remove plastic pilot sleeve.
~ Install the black rubber dust shield. This shield fits snug on the crankshaft with the large diameter side of the shield touching the metal face of the crankshaft seal.
(Complete your work)
~ Throughly clean the crankshaft sealing surface of ALL material. Do NOT lubricate the surface with oil! This WILL damage the installed seal! (There's apparently some initial Teflon-layered seal wiping on start-up that "Sets" the new seal to the crankshaft surface. A lubricant at that point interferes with the initial "Set").
~ Install the gear-cover onto the engine taking care not to soil the crankshaft sealing surface. Leave the cap-screws loose for now.
~ Carefully coat the outer diameter of the new seal with Loc-Tite or similar.
~ Carefully place the plastic pilot and seal onto the crankshaft stub.
~ Holding the seal in place, position the Installation/Depth setting tool centered on the seals carrier. (The narrow side goes against the seals carrier. The flange that is now facing you acts as the stop when you drive the seal home resulting in the correct install depth).
Here's the neat part . . . .
~ Place the short piece of tubing into the groove of the Installation/Depth setting tool.
~ Place a 4' or so piece of a sound 2X4 with its end resting on the rear edge of the cross-member below the engine damper.
~ Center the broad side of the 2X4 against the seal/tool/tubing stack.
~ Wedge something solid between the front/bottom of the 2X4 and the front of that cross-member. I used a big-headed hammer. We want to make a solid pivot point. The tool you've now set-up is a basic fulcrum in its action. (You may have to experiment with the position of your hammer for the fulcrum to press effectively on the tube . . . . you'll figure something out
).~ Ensuring things are in the proper position and centered, lean firmly on the top of the 2X4. You'll see the gear cover flex toward the engine slightly and the seal slide perfectly into place. If you cut the little piece of tubing slightly crooked, you can rotate it so as to allow near perfect alignment of the tube and 2X4. That way you can fully seat the seal in the correct position all the way around. Having no access to the cover centering tool, I'm assuming the newly installed seal has automatically aligned the cover to the crankshaft as it was pressed into place.
~ Remove 2X4, hammer, piece of tubing, and the seal Installation/Depth setting tool.
~ Snug all cap-screws hand tight, then torque to 18ft-lb.
~ Remove plastic pilot sleeve.
~ Install the black rubber dust shield. This shield fits snug on the crankshaft with the large diameter side of the shield touching the metal face of the crankshaft seal.
(Complete your work)
So there you go. For me, this was a quick and easy install once I figured it out. I didn't destroy an expensive seal while pounding the back-side of my radiator. I think it keeps pretty well within the goal of the authoritive instruction as presented by Cummins and Dodge.
Hope it works for you too.
12-03-2006, 11:37 AM
#2
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Chasing the seal around and around
Have been there and can aprieseat the frustration!
This is my method of mad mess
By seal pkg, put seal in freezer, remove all that is necessary to remove the cover, remove old seal, remove new seal form freezer(must be in there for at least an hour)put red or blue lock tite on outer (mettle part ) part of seal and chase seal in to cover, and us seal depth installer and seat seal.
Us brake cleaner to clean and dry crank seal surface(making sure there isn't and a deep groove in the crank seal surface.
Us seal to crank install tool(Plastic tapered tube) to slide cover and seal over crank.........O ya don't forget to as silicone or a gasket to the cover before installing!
Install all previous parts remove!
Now that you have made all you tools ........Your way would be way Quicker
Have been there and can aprieseat the frustration!
This is my method of mad mess
By seal pkg, put seal in freezer, remove all that is necessary to remove the cover, remove old seal, remove new seal form freezer(must be in there for at least an hour)put red or blue lock tite on outer (mettle part ) part of seal and chase seal in to cover, and us seal depth installer and seat seal.
Us brake cleaner to clean and dry crank seal surface(making sure there isn't and a deep groove in the crank seal surface.
Us seal to crank install tool(Plastic tapered tube) to slide cover and seal over crank.........O ya don't forget to as silicone or a gasket to the cover before installing!
Install all previous parts remove!
Now that you have made all you tools ........Your way would be way Quicker
12-03-2006, 07:18 PM
#3
Adminstrator-ess
This one went right in the sticky. 
I was kind puzzled when I approved the pic, but all is clear now. I'll be using this when I pull the cover to jump the timing a tooth.
I was kind puzzled when I approved the pic, but all is clear now. I'll be using this when I pull the cover to jump the timing a tooth.
01-28-2007, 10:43 PM
#4
Registered User
Why couldn't I put the seal in the cover before it's on the crank, get it to the right depth in the cover, then tap it onto the crank as I put the cover on?
01-28-2007, 11:25 PM
#5
Registered User
The seal in the TST kit came with a plastic sleeve for installing correctly on the crank, and a spacer to make sure that you get the thing seated in the cover to the right depth. I put it in from the backside of the cover, following the directions and it was a piece of cake. It did not matter that I had to remove the plastic sleeve to do this, it was easy to reinstall the sleeve in the seal properly before putting the cover back on.
you can look at the TST directions in a pdf that is downloadable from their site. It has pictures and everything.
you can look at the TST directions in a pdf that is downloadable from their site. It has pictures and everything.
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01-29-2007, 05:53 PM
#8
Registered User
You guys that do this job, afterwords keep the plastic install tool/guide. This way if you ever remove the front cover in the future, you can reinstall this guide to help slide the seal over the crank again without damaging the seal.
01-29-2007, 08:19 PM
#9
1st Generation Admin
Thread Starter
I'm not trying to be a smart tale or anything, but after doing it the way TST suggests, and having the thing leak after a thousand miles, I thought I might give the FSM method a go.
This thread is to help one go that route and get the seal in quickly without damaging it in the process.
09-04-2008, 11:04 AM
#11
Registered User
New part #'s
This thread was very useful to Me and I thank You. Now I ordered the seal and front cover gasket and run into a problem I hope You don't have to. The part #'s have changed and there are other items one can order from cummins depending on Your specific engine condition.
The front crank seal part # I have is 3804899 this one comes with a dust shield, but My engine has 220k miles in it and the crankshaft presents wear on the parts where the seal contact it. This seal is the one with the wear sleeve ad the part # is 3802820. The front cover gasket is #3914385.
I was referred to the Harrisburg PA cummins dealer by Wannadiesel, they sent Me two seals the first time and they didn't work bc of the wear on My crankshaft but I didn't know of the existence of this other seal until I was told by them. The parts Manager Tim Prall is a very considerate person, He credited Me the seals and gasket so I could have the right seal (for My engine) and gasket this time. I didn't expect a complete refund when I contacted Him but a discount so it would be easier on Me since the seal are around $32 each and the seal for My high mileage 6bt (89 ctd) cost around $90, I don't have much money and work very hard the all I get so this was welcome by Me with gratitude.
I don't know if I can put this so I'll write it on this line their contact # is 1717 986 9062, I'm not associated with them but their customer service has left Me impressed.
Thank You.
The front crank seal part # I have is 3804899 this one comes with a dust shield, but My engine has 220k miles in it and the crankshaft presents wear on the parts where the seal contact it. This seal is the one with the wear sleeve ad the part # is 3802820. The front cover gasket is #3914385.
I was referred to the Harrisburg PA cummins dealer by Wannadiesel, they sent Me two seals the first time and they didn't work bc of the wear on My crankshaft but I didn't know of the existence of this other seal until I was told by them. The parts Manager Tim Prall is a very considerate person, He credited Me the seals and gasket so I could have the right seal (for My engine) and gasket this time. I didn't expect a complete refund when I contacted Him but a discount so it would be easier on Me since the seal are around $32 each and the seal for My high mileage 6bt (89 ctd) cost around $90, I don't have much money and work very hard the all I get so this was welcome by Me with gratitude.
I don't know if I can put this so I'll write it on this line their contact # is 1717 986 9062, I'm not associated with them but their customer service has left Me impressed.
Thank You.
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