What HP/Torque is the 2002 model and is it easy to mod?
What HP/Torque is the 2002 model and is it easy to mod?
06-03-2005, 09:46 AM
#2
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The standard output (SO, or ETC) engine came with the 47RE automatic or NV4500 5-speed manual and was rated at 235 BHP/460 lb-ft torque at the flywheel.
The high output (HO, or ETH) engine came only with the NV5600 6-speed manual and was rated at 245 BHP/505 lb-ft torque at the flywheel
I'm not going to take sides on which engine is easier to modify, the 12 valve or the 24 valve. They are just different. The 12 valve is a "mechanically controlled" engine using the P7100 in-line injection pump. Air/fuel ratio and fixed injection timing along with fuel delivery are controlled with pump adjustments and/or modifications. The 24 valve 2nd generation engine is "electronically controlled", so adding BHP can be done with "boxes", modified engine control modules (ECMs), etc. in addition to larger injectors, larger turbos and other mods that are common to both the 12 valve and 24 valve engines.
As far as output, check my signature. Mine is just a little old trailer towing rig running a mild box and small-to-medium size injectors along with a higher flowing air filter and exhaust system. Still running the stock turbo. With these few mods, I achieved the rear wheel BHP/torque results shown.
How much is possible with either the 12 valve or 24 valve engine? It's like the old hot rodder's saying - "Speed costs money. How fast can you afford to go?"
Rusty
The high output (HO, or ETH) engine came only with the NV5600 6-speed manual and was rated at 245 BHP/505 lb-ft torque at the flywheel
I'm not going to take sides on which engine is easier to modify, the 12 valve or the 24 valve. They are just different. The 12 valve is a "mechanically controlled" engine using the P7100 in-line injection pump. Air/fuel ratio and fixed injection timing along with fuel delivery are controlled with pump adjustments and/or modifications. The 24 valve 2nd generation engine is "electronically controlled", so adding BHP can be done with "boxes", modified engine control modules (ECMs), etc. in addition to larger injectors, larger turbos and other mods that are common to both the 12 valve and 24 valve engines.
As far as output, check my signature. Mine is just a little old trailer towing rig running a mild box and small-to-medium size injectors along with a higher flowing air filter and exhaust system. Still running the stock turbo. With these few mods, I achieved the rear wheel BHP/torque results shown.
How much is possible with either the 12 valve or 24 valve engine? It's like the old hot rodder's saying - "Speed costs money. How fast can you afford to go?"
Rusty
06-03-2005, 09:58 AM
#4
Registered User
I bought my stuff years ago, so these prices may or may not mean anything. You can find some of this stuff used in the classifieds here for less, I suspect.
Edge EZ "box" ~$425
Diesel Dynamics Stage 2 injectors ~$485 or so (with now-discontinued TDR discount)
Jardine 4" exhaust system, with 5" SS tip ~$425
BHAF (big honking air filter) ~$40
Ray Torresdahl's high flow banjo bolts (5) - don't remember, but around $30 total IIRC
Although it doesn't make any incremental BHP/torque, the above mods did overpower the stock HO/6-speed clutch. The South Bend Con OFE replacement was around $900. Installation extra.
Rusty
Edge EZ "box" ~$425
Diesel Dynamics Stage 2 injectors ~$485 or so (with now-discontinued TDR discount)
Jardine 4" exhaust system, with 5" SS tip ~$425
BHAF (big honking air filter) ~$40
Ray Torresdahl's high flow banjo bolts (5) - don't remember, but around $30 total IIRC
Although it doesn't make any incremental BHP/torque, the above mods did overpower the stock HO/6-speed clutch. The South Bend Con OFE replacement was around $900. Installation extra.
Rusty
06-03-2005, 10:42 AM
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Great posts, Rusty.
HP/dollar is better for a 12V up to a point. There are lots of cheap bombs you can do to a 12V that will REALLY wake it up. You can bump up the timing to 17°, throw in some bosch 370s, and grind your fuel plate to a #100 shape. Total cost (not counting time) is <$400, and you will have enough fuel for up to 400+hp or so, depending on the pump you start with (215 pumps have larger DVs already installed).
To take a 24V up to 400hp takes some LARGE injectors and/or a "box". This puts the cost at $1000 on the cheap end, and $1500 on the high end.
Once you get to the 500hp point or so, the 12V and the 24V will cost about the same.
In a sense, you get what you pay for with the 24V. At a given hp level, they will be more friendly on the street and have less smoke.
The 12V is a "dumb" engine that can't vary timing or adapt to changing conditions. While they give you a LOT of flexibility for tuning, you find yourself constantly tweaking. The 24V engine is "smart" in that it can adapt to changing conditions, so performance doesn't vary as much with weather or altitude changes.
The 12V pump is bulletproof reliable and VERY expensive ($3500). The VP is mostly reliable, and costs about $1300.
If you seek HUGE hp, then a 12V is your only option. The VP simply can't deliver the huge amounts of fuel a P7100 12V pump can. The VP has made 648HP though on just #2, so you have to be in the nether regions of HP before the HP runs out.
jlh
HP/dollar is better for a 12V up to a point. There are lots of cheap bombs you can do to a 12V that will REALLY wake it up. You can bump up the timing to 17°, throw in some bosch 370s, and grind your fuel plate to a #100 shape. Total cost (not counting time) is <$400, and you will have enough fuel for up to 400+hp or so, depending on the pump you start with (215 pumps have larger DVs already installed).
To take a 24V up to 400hp takes some LARGE injectors and/or a "box". This puts the cost at $1000 on the cheap end, and $1500 on the high end.
Once you get to the 500hp point or so, the 12V and the 24V will cost about the same.
In a sense, you get what you pay for with the 24V. At a given hp level, they will be more friendly on the street and have less smoke.
The 12V is a "dumb" engine that can't vary timing or adapt to changing conditions. While they give you a LOT of flexibility for tuning, you find yourself constantly tweaking. The 24V engine is "smart" in that it can adapt to changing conditions, so performance doesn't vary as much with weather or altitude changes.
The 12V pump is bulletproof reliable and VERY expensive ($3500). The VP is mostly reliable, and costs about $1300.
If you seek HUGE hp, then a 12V is your only option. The VP simply can't deliver the huge amounts of fuel a P7100 12V pump can. The VP has made 648HP though on just #2, so you have to be in the nether regions of HP before the HP runs out.
jlh
06-03-2005, 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by HOHN
Great posts, Rusty.
HP/dollar is better for a 12V up to a point. There are lots of cheap bombs you can do to a 12V that will REALLY wake it up. You can bump up the timing to 17°, throw in some bosch 370s, and grind your fuel plate to a #100 shape. Total cost (not counting time) is <$400, and you will have enough fuel for up to 400+hp or so, depending on the pump you start with (215 pumps have larger DVs already installed).
To take a 24V up to 400hp takes some LARGE injectors and/or a "box". This puts the cost at $1000 on the cheap end, and $1500 on the high end.
Once you get to the 500hp point or so, the 12V and the 24V will cost about the same.
In a sense, you get what you pay for with the 24V. At a given hp level, they will be more friendly on the street and have less smoke.
The 12V is a "dumb" engine that can't vary timing or adapt to changing conditions. While they give you a LOT of flexibility for tuning, you find yourself constantly tweaking. The 24V engine is "smart" in that it can adapt to changing conditions, so performance doesn't vary as much with weather or altitude changes.
The 12V pump is bulletproof reliable and VERY expensive ($3500). The VP is mostly reliable, and costs about $1300.
If you seek HUGE hp, then a 12V is your only option. The VP simply can't deliver the huge amounts of fuel a P7100 12V pump can. The VP has made 648HP though on just #2, so you have to be in the nether regions of HP before the HP runs out.
jlh
Great posts, Rusty.
HP/dollar is better for a 12V up to a point. There are lots of cheap bombs you can do to a 12V that will REALLY wake it up. You can bump up the timing to 17°, throw in some bosch 370s, and grind your fuel plate to a #100 shape. Total cost (not counting time) is <$400, and you will have enough fuel for up to 400+hp or so, depending on the pump you start with (215 pumps have larger DVs already installed).
To take a 24V up to 400hp takes some LARGE injectors and/or a "box". This puts the cost at $1000 on the cheap end, and $1500 on the high end.
Once you get to the 500hp point or so, the 12V and the 24V will cost about the same.
In a sense, you get what you pay for with the 24V. At a given hp level, they will be more friendly on the street and have less smoke.
The 12V is a "dumb" engine that can't vary timing or adapt to changing conditions. While they give you a LOT of flexibility for tuning, you find yourself constantly tweaking. The 24V engine is "smart" in that it can adapt to changing conditions, so performance doesn't vary as much with weather or altitude changes.
The 12V pump is bulletproof reliable and VERY expensive ($3500). The VP is mostly reliable, and costs about $1300.
If you seek HUGE hp, then a 12V is your only option. The VP simply can't deliver the huge amounts of fuel a P7100 12V pump can. The VP has made 648HP though on just #2, so you have to be in the nether regions of HP before the HP runs out.
jlh
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06-03-2005, 11:12 PM
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Nope-- it's the injection pump, the heart/brain of the engine.
Both have lift pumps, though. 12V is mechanical and runs off the camshaft. 24V is electrical.
jlh
Both have lift pumps, though. 12V is mechanical and runs off the camshaft. 24V is electrical.
jlh
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