Which engine to rebuild and/or install
10-12-2016, 04:56 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Which engine to rebuild and/or install
Been away from the 1st gens a while
About to convert a 2000 GMC CCSB K2500 to Cummins and NV4500 and get rid of my 06 mega cab.
I have an 89 non IC with 87k miles and a 93 with 227k miles. Both have been sitting covered in the barn for at least 5 years. I also have another 93 engine for parts.
Both engines look like they leak some coolant from the head gaskets, so that would be changed, along with other gaskets and seals. Whichever is installed will be inter cooled. I was looking thru parts from when I messed with 1st gens and have the head gasket, a 366 spring, along with a Gillet Diesel impeller and housing, an H1C rebuild kit, and also a waste gated exhaust housing from a WH1C. I have 4" exhaust for the truck, would only need a down pipe for the Cummins.
Plans with the truck is everyday driver with some towing (mostly will be my 38hp tractor) also considering a fuel pin, bump the timing, and possibly an exhaust brake.
I'm thinking of tearing into the 89 due to low miles. I bought the engine from a wrecked truck but don't know the history of it
Again, I'm looking for decent mileage and reliability more than anything. Am I missing anything?
Thanks
About to convert a 2000 GMC CCSB K2500 to Cummins and NV4500 and get rid of my 06 mega cab.
I have an 89 non IC with 87k miles and a 93 with 227k miles. Both have been sitting covered in the barn for at least 5 years. I also have another 93 engine for parts.
Both engines look like they leak some coolant from the head gaskets, so that would be changed, along with other gaskets and seals. Whichever is installed will be inter cooled. I was looking thru parts from when I messed with 1st gens and have the head gasket, a 366 spring, along with a Gillet Diesel impeller and housing, an H1C rebuild kit, and also a waste gated exhaust housing from a WH1C. I have 4" exhaust for the truck, would only need a down pipe for the Cummins.
Plans with the truck is everyday driver with some towing (mostly will be my 38hp tractor) also considering a fuel pin, bump the timing, and possibly an exhaust brake.
I'm thinking of tearing into the 89 due to low miles. I bought the engine from a wrecked truck but don't know the history of it
Again, I'm looking for decent mileage and reliability more than anything. Am I missing anything?
Thanks
10-12-2016, 05:09 PM
#2
Banned
I would use the 89 lower end with the 93 head.
from what I understand, the head on the IC motors is stronger, less prone to cracking. The cylinder bowls in the 89 are designed for the 155* injectors, allowing you to run a marine 370 or the like injector, which again, from my understanding, is superior to the common 145* injectors for the IC motors.
i would want the vacuum pump/steering pump from the 93 motor as well.
from what I understand, the head on the IC motors is stronger, less prone to cracking. The cylinder bowls in the 89 are designed for the 155* injectors, allowing you to run a marine 370 or the like injector, which again, from my understanding, is superior to the common 145* injectors for the IC motors.
i would want the vacuum pump/steering pump from the 93 motor as well.
10-12-2016, 07:57 PM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
I planned on having the head checked and seals installed on whichever one I work (and possibly 60lb springs on exhaust side for the brake)
If the non IC head is good, would it be ok to run it?
If the non IC head is good, would it be ok to run it?
10-13-2016, 06:32 AM
#4
Registered User
I would run the '89 motor with fresh gaskets.
If the head checks out, on the '89, I would use that as well. This is due to the fact the factory NON I/Ced injectors are much bigger and can make great power in stock form.
The '93 head will not accept the larger '89 injectors due to the fact they are 9 MM rather than the later injectors being 7 MM.
If the head checks out, on the '89, I would use that as well. This is due to the fact the factory NON I/Ced injectors are much bigger and can make great power in stock form.
The '93 head will not accept the larger '89 injectors due to the fact they are 9 MM rather than the later injectors being 7 MM.
10-13-2016, 11:23 AM
#6
Banned
10-14-2016, 08:38 PM
#7
I put my non I\C motor into my 93. Dont know why but with way more mileage it just runs so much better. With all the stuff in my sig it has way more power than the I\C motor. I had to detune it as now I'm blowing past my new stock clutch.
Stu
Stu
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10-14-2016, 09:42 PM
#8
Registered User
It is due to the bigger injectors the earlier [NON I/Ced] 12Vs came with from the factory, like I mentioned earlier.
10-14-2016, 10:02 PM
#9
Registered User
I'm going to go against the grain here and recommend the 93 motor.
Mileage is a moot point for picking one over the other. Truthfully the higher mileage might be in better overall condition. Motors that sit excessively dry out the seals. I know both have sat for a long time, but the 89 has done a lot more sitting.
The advantage to the 89 motor is the pistons but I've run several different pistons in different motors. You won't notice a difference. Having the non-ic pistons will be nothing more than a novelty. The advantages of it won't really come in to play at the power level we play with. The 89 injectors are bigger as well, that is one actually notable advantage but nozzles are cheap for these motors and if you do upgrade injectors on the 89 motor you need to also buy the fairly expensive adapter sleeves for the 9mm shank design for the head.
One semi glaring disadvantage of the 89 is the head for quality control issues. All 12v heads have issues with cracking but the problem is much worse on the old heads (89-91.0)
Both motors are going to be resealed regardless I should hope so all that stuff is a moot point
The 89 motor would have a higher resale value if you did decide to offload it as well. And since we're on the topic of that motor and mileage, when you got the motor was the mileage confirmed? Because if it isn't...
Mileage is a moot point for picking one over the other. Truthfully the higher mileage might be in better overall condition. Motors that sit excessively dry out the seals. I know both have sat for a long time, but the 89 has done a lot more sitting.
The advantage to the 89 motor is the pistons but I've run several different pistons in different motors. You won't notice a difference. Having the non-ic pistons will be nothing more than a novelty. The advantages of it won't really come in to play at the power level we play with. The 89 injectors are bigger as well, that is one actually notable advantage but nozzles are cheap for these motors and if you do upgrade injectors on the 89 motor you need to also buy the fairly expensive adapter sleeves for the 9mm shank design for the head.
One semi glaring disadvantage of the 89 is the head for quality control issues. All 12v heads have issues with cracking but the problem is much worse on the old heads (89-91.0)
Both motors are going to be resealed regardless I should hope so all that stuff is a moot point
The 89 motor would have a higher resale value if you did decide to offload it as well. And since we're on the topic of that motor and mileage, when you got the motor was the mileage confirmed? Because if it isn't...
10-14-2016, 10:42 PM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
The old man (original owner) passed, and his son was moving hay with it. He had the hay trailer overloaded (twice as much as the old man would load trailer) lost control on a hill and bent the frame of the truck when it was rolled in the ditch.
I know the old man didn't drive but 45-50 so it wasn't run hard.
Whichever engine I use will have at minimum new gaskets and seals
10-14-2016, 11:08 PM
#11
Banned
hygard = liquid horsepower
10-15-2016, 12:21 AM
#12
Banned
I would agree with Rick's statements above as they are spot on. It's one thing if you know an original owner and if it never left the farm it's quite possible to be low miles. But their is one thing to never beleive about a dodge and that's it's odometer. They are notorious for not working, working sometimes, sometimes not, or having been replaced for the third time. So when someone says I have a rotary pump truck or engine and ya it's only got 120,000 miles on it, it's not even broke in yet. I say bs you have know possible way to know how many miles are actually on it.
The non intercooled nozzles do flow way more fuel but you will get much better atomization with a 6 or a 5 hole nozzle. I see very little reason to run them when you can get upgraded nozzles for not much money and a much cleaner burn.
As to the farm oil they are not anywhere near equall either. Years ago most farmers would buy whatever oil was cheapest because it's all the same, or so that's what the oil reps wanted you to beleive to sell you their oil. The perfect example are John Deere transmission repair jobs. It's easy to tell what oil someone had in their tractor as some used different colors in their formula, they actually generally always had a different smell to them also. The worst one was always CHS's oil, easy to tell as it use to be green in color and was always the more expensive to repair. So if you had two tractors that came in for nearlly the same repair job, the tractor with Deere oil would be $10,000 and the same scenario repair with x brand hydraulic oil would be in the $12-$14,000 range. So CHS's for those that don't recognize the name is cenex harvest states and guess what they own their own refinery.
I could also say the same thing about engine repairs maybe not to the same extent but you get the point. All oils are not equall and oils like rotella that it seems everyone thinks is the greatest thing on earth isn't always so great.
The non intercooled nozzles do flow way more fuel but you will get much better atomization with a 6 or a 5 hole nozzle. I see very little reason to run them when you can get upgraded nozzles for not much money and a much cleaner burn.
As to the farm oil they are not anywhere near equall either. Years ago most farmers would buy whatever oil was cheapest because it's all the same, or so that's what the oil reps wanted you to beleive to sell you their oil. The perfect example are John Deere transmission repair jobs. It's easy to tell what oil someone had in their tractor as some used different colors in their formula, they actually generally always had a different smell to them also. The worst one was always CHS's oil, easy to tell as it use to be green in color and was always the more expensive to repair. So if you had two tractors that came in for nearlly the same repair job, the tractor with Deere oil would be $10,000 and the same scenario repair with x brand hydraulic oil would be in the $12-$14,000 range. So CHS's for those that don't recognize the name is cenex harvest states and guess what they own their own refinery.
I could also say the same thing about engine repairs maybe not to the same extent but you get the point. All oils are not equall and oils like rotella that it seems everyone thinks is the greatest thing on earth isn't always so great.
10-15-2016, 06:57 AM
#13
Banned
As to the farm oil they are not anywhere near equall either. Years ago most farmers would buy whatever oil was cheapest because it's all the same, or so that's what the oil reps wanted you to beleive to sell you their oil. The perfect example are John Deere transmission repair jobs. It's easy to tell what oil someone had in their tractor as some used different colors in their formula, they actually generally always had a different smell to them also. The worst one was always CHS's oil, easy to tell as it use to be green in color and was always the more expensive to repair. So if you had two tractors that came in for nearlly the same repair job, the tractor with Deere oil would be $10,000 and the same scenario repair with x brand hydraulic oil would be in the $12-$14,000 range. So CHS's for those that don't recognize the name is cenex harvest states and guess what they own their own refinery.
I could also say the same thing about engine repairs maybe not to the same extent but you get the point. All oils are not equall and oils like rotella that it seems everyone thinks is the greatest thing on earth isn't always so great.
I could also say the same thing about engine repairs maybe not to the same extent but you get the point. All oils are not equall and oils like rotella that it seems everyone thinks is the greatest thing on earth isn't always so great.
10-15-2016, 10:02 AM
#14
Stu
