Trailer tire balance causes the whole truck to shake?
03-08-2006, 03:40 PM
#1
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Trailer tire balance causes the whole truck to shake?
I just returned from a 2800 mile trip to texas and back. Part of the trip was with 1 3900lb vehicle on a 32' goose, the rest was with that vehicle on the back, and a ~4750lb vehicle up front pin weight seemed good, the truck was sitting level. (Grossing ~21k total)
I had my tires balanced (both trailer and truck, at different places) the day before the trip, and the guys did use ALOT of weights on the wheels, which I wasn't too happy about.
The trailer is a 2005, everything is in tip-top shape.
Empty and unhooked, the truck doesn't shake at any speed. with the empty goose, it's got a pretty good vibe at 70, and a weird shake at 35.
Loaded (1 vehicle or 2 on the trailer), at various speeds from 65 to 75, I got vibes, sometime bad. Sometimes they felt like they were coming from the rear, sometimes from the front (I could see my front bumper shaking).
So, could the imbalance in the trailer tires be causing the shakes all the way up in the truck? Or, was the weight loading on the truck's tires rendering the balancing less effective? Would the dyna-beads or something similar have helped?
I gotta resolve this - the trip would have been GREAT otherwise.
I had my tires balanced (both trailer and truck, at different places) the day before the trip, and the guys did use ALOT of weights on the wheels, which I wasn't too happy about.
The trailer is a 2005, everything is in tip-top shape.
Empty and unhooked, the truck doesn't shake at any speed. with the empty goose, it's got a pretty good vibe at 70, and a weird shake at 35.
Loaded (1 vehicle or 2 on the trailer), at various speeds from 65 to 75, I got vibes, sometime bad. Sometimes they felt like they were coming from the rear, sometimes from the front (I could see my front bumper shaking).
So, could the imbalance in the trailer tires be causing the shakes all the way up in the truck? Or, was the weight loading on the truck's tires rendering the balancing less effective? Would the dyna-beads or something similar have helped?
I gotta resolve this - the trip would have been GREAT otherwise.
03-08-2006, 08:22 PM
#4
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I will probably get flamed for this; but, it is a waste to balance trailer tires, as far as what you can feel in the truck.
I grew up in the tire business and know from whence I speak.
If you take all the weights off both the truck and trailer, it will probably perform a lot better.
Computer wheel balancers are a joke, if they are worn a little; and, they cost entirely too much to influence a tire-shop owner to replace one when it gets weird.
Most tire-men don't know how to properly balance a wheel in the first place.
I have the latest and best balancing equipment at my disposal; and, it doesn't cost me a cent to balance; and, get this, I have not balanced a wheel on one of my personal vehicles in years.
If a tire is true, it will run without balancing, believe it or not.
My advice to anyone that is having vibration issues is to get themselves one of the good old "bubble" type wheel balancers, a pair of weight pliers, and an assortment of wheel weights and balance their tires themselves.
A tire balanced wrong is far worse than a tire that is not balanced at all.
I grew up in the tire business and know from whence I speak.
If you take all the weights off both the truck and trailer, it will probably perform a lot better.
Computer wheel balancers are a joke, if they are worn a little; and, they cost entirely too much to influence a tire-shop owner to replace one when it gets weird.
Most tire-men don't know how to properly balance a wheel in the first place.
I have the latest and best balancing equipment at my disposal; and, it doesn't cost me a cent to balance; and, get this, I have not balanced a wheel on one of my personal vehicles in years.
If a tire is true, it will run without balancing, believe it or not.
My advice to anyone that is having vibration issues is to get themselves one of the good old "bubble" type wheel balancers, a pair of weight pliers, and an assortment of wheel weights and balance their tires themselves.
A tire balanced wrong is far worse than a tire that is not balanced at all.
03-08-2006, 10:46 PM
#7
Interesting Bear Killer. I replaced all four tires on my boat trailer last fall just because they were two years old. Old tires it pulled like a dream. New tires have a shake at 50mph. Old tires had weights. New tires they didn't balance them. I'm going to take the trailer into work and balance them and see what I find......and yes, it will be on a Hunter GSP9700.
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03-08-2006, 11:12 PM
#8
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Just wanted to give you guys some ideas of what an improperly balanced tire will look like.
1. Always have both sides of the rim balanced.
2. If you see multiple weights on one side of the rim that are not exactly beside each other this is called counterbalancing which is bad. This shows either an out of calibration machine or lack of training on the person doing the work.
3. Cheap tires are very hard to balance. They are normally not very round. What I mean by this is if you rotate the tire it will bounce up and down. One way to correct this issue is to shave them perfectly round. The only issue with this is that not alot of shops shave tires anymore. Goodluck finding someone who does.
4. The performance of some machines is not as good as others. Some machines will have a selection to fine tune the balance. Most operators do not know about this due to lack of training. The machine is only as good as the operator.
5. Steel rims are notorious for bending. If the shop says you have a bent rim take it to heart. Let them show you how much it is out of line and make your decision on if you want to replace it or not. It may cause issue with the balance.
Hope this helps.
1. Always have both sides of the rim balanced.
2. If you see multiple weights on one side of the rim that are not exactly beside each other this is called counterbalancing which is bad. This shows either an out of calibration machine or lack of training on the person doing the work.
3. Cheap tires are very hard to balance. They are normally not very round. What I mean by this is if you rotate the tire it will bounce up and down. One way to correct this issue is to shave them perfectly round. The only issue with this is that not alot of shops shave tires anymore. Goodluck finding someone who does.
4. The performance of some machines is not as good as others. Some machines will have a selection to fine tune the balance. Most operators do not know about this due to lack of training. The machine is only as good as the operator.
5. Steel rims are notorious for bending. If the shop says you have a bent rim take it to heart. Let them show you how much it is out of line and make your decision on if you want to replace it or not. It may cause issue with the balance.
Hope this helps.
03-10-2006, 02:24 PM
#9
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I'll throw a little more contriversy in here. If you buy six new tires of any quality, two or three of them will be out of round. Balancing will never make it smooth.
Trailers usually do not have shocks and will bounce. Old geezers will remember, you balance a coil spruni wheel, no balance on a leaf spring wheel. Torsen, who knows. I would never waste the money on balancing trailer tires. They wear different anyway.
You can get the tires trued to round on your wheel and axle, but is expensive. It will make it smooth though, but the geometery of a trailer may need shocks to be smooth.
On a Dodge you have to also look at the helper springs. If they are near touching but not firmly on the pads, you ahve a rough ride coming.
Shocks on the truck can eliminate the bounce, in a dramatic way. Good heavy duty shocks are a must for towing. Lock up your brakes and smoke them once on the trailer, and you will never get a smooth ride again even if you can't see the flat spots.
Trailers usually do not have shocks and will bounce. Old geezers will remember, you balance a coil spruni wheel, no balance on a leaf spring wheel. Torsen, who knows. I would never waste the money on balancing trailer tires. They wear different anyway.
You can get the tires trued to round on your wheel and axle, but is expensive. It will make it smooth though, but the geometery of a trailer may need shocks to be smooth.
On a Dodge you have to also look at the helper springs. If they are near touching but not firmly on the pads, you ahve a rough ride coming.
Shocks on the truck can eliminate the bounce, in a dramatic way. Good heavy duty shocks are a must for towing. Lock up your brakes and smoke them once on the trailer, and you will never get a smooth ride again even if you can't see the flat spots.
03-10-2006, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Haulin_in_Dixie
Lock up your brakes and smoke them once on the trailer, and you will never get a smooth ride again even if you can't see the flat spots.
ks
03-18-2006, 09:33 AM
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What kind of vehicle should I buy to avoid having to balance my tires and see no ill effects? Every vehicle I have ever owned was sensitive to tire balance, sometimes to the point of being a pain to the tire shop. I have tried mounting tires without balancing and always went back and paid the money.
You would think that if no balancing was needed you would see the trend first on new vehicles, it would save the mfg. some money! We know that the bottom line always comes first.
Regards,
jimb
You would think that if no balancing was needed you would see the trend first on new vehicles, it would save the mfg. some money! We know that the bottom line always comes first.
Regards,
jimb
03-18-2006, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by windyr
What kind of vehicle should I buy to avoid having to balance my tires and see no ill effects? Every vehicle I have ever owned was sensitive to tire balance, sometimes to the point of being a pain to the tire shop. I have tried mounting tires without balancing and always went back and paid the money.
You would think that if no balancing was needed you would see the trend first on new vehicles, it would save the mfg. some money! We know that the bottom line always comes first.
Regards,
jimb
You would think that if no balancing was needed you would see the trend first on new vehicles, it would save the mfg. some money! We know that the bottom line always comes first.
Regards,
jimb
03-18-2006, 09:30 PM
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I am in with Bearkiller and Haulin_in_Dixie, never balance a commercial trailer. The commercial weight tires are too heavy, too soft, and will shift their weight dynamic within a hundred miles of use. Just pop the weights off your trailer tires and you will be amazed at how much better it handles.
There is an exception. If the trailer tire is so far out of round that it is bouncing, then it will need to be replaced. You can eyeball this by just barely jacking each tire off the pavement about 1/8 of an inch, and then giving them a spin. If you have one that is clear then touches, get it replaced with a round tire.
There is an exception. If the trailer tire is so far out of round that it is bouncing, then it will need to be replaced. You can eyeball this by just barely jacking each tire off the pavement about 1/8 of an inch, and then giving them a spin. If you have one that is clear then touches, get it replaced with a round tire.
03-20-2006, 04:04 PM
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I put 4 brand new trxus mud tires on my dodge awhile back and the shaking in the front end was horrible! The tire shop didn't balance them very good when they mounted them.Took the truck to a good friend and he re balanced them.Truck is nice and smooth now.Not gonna sway me with the no balancing act! 