Towing Limit and DRW (I did search the forum first)
06-30-2005, 03:04 PM
#16
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This is a much over worked subject and has been gone over so many times, but simply put. You can haul what your state will plate the truck for. There is no GCWR on the door sticker, so there is no GCWR listed for the vehicle. YOu are restricted by first the license plates, and then the axle capacity and wheel/tire capacity. When pulling a semi style trailer, that is where a significent part of the load is on the truck as opposed to a full trailer, with your single axle truck, it should have 25% of the weight on the truck. The GVW of the truck is not a factor with a semi style trailer, that is for a load that is contained on the truck alone.
You also need to look into you states laws on truck trailer laws compared to tractor trailer laws. I cannot run my stuff with the pickup bed on it due to some states length laws. There is a difference.
You need to get with someone that knows commercial trucks, preferrably small trucks to get the best idea of what you have to comply with in your state. You will need to know of Apportioned plates, IFTA, FMCSA authority, Single State Registration, and your states authority, to mention a few. Get caught without these is very expensive. Also you will probably need a CDL. If you are borderline, get one, be safe. Best way to not go bankrupt.
You also need to look into you states laws on truck trailer laws compared to tractor trailer laws. I cannot run my stuff with the pickup bed on it due to some states length laws. There is a difference.
You need to get with someone that knows commercial trucks, preferrably small trucks to get the best idea of what you have to comply with in your state. You will need to know of Apportioned plates, IFTA, FMCSA authority, Single State Registration, and your states authority, to mention a few. Get caught without these is very expensive. Also you will probably need a CDL. If you are borderline, get one, be safe. Best way to not go bankrupt.
06-30-2005, 03:43 PM
#17
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I just got off the phone with the DOT in Oregon. The only thing they care about is license, medical, logs etc. Also, they have a chart that looks at # of axles over a given distance. Also, the big thing is tire rating. According to the guy I spoke with, who seemed very knowledgable, the limiting factor is generally the tires in our application.
One example I brought up is, so if I have a triple axle car hauler with 7000# axles, the limiting weight has nothing to do with the fact that they are 7000# axles. They don't look at that, just that the tires will hold the weight. He said I can carry 30,000# with that trailer if I have the correct tires. Again, that was from a legality standpoint.
He also mentioned that with the truck limits from the MFG, they are not limiting from a legality to drive standpoint. It comes down to the states limit on each axle assuming the tires can handle the weight.
Here's the caveat.
According to this guy with the State, if you plow through a bus load of nuns and children, you might as well hand the keys over to the judge. It will be argued that a prudent person would not overload a vehicle beyond manufacturers specs.
I don't know if case law exists for this, but if anyone has info on that, I'm all ears. If I stick within the 23,000#, there isn't much room for hauling.
probably only 8-9k#'s in cargo.
-Steve
One example I brought up is, so if I have a triple axle car hauler with 7000# axles, the limiting weight has nothing to do with the fact that they are 7000# axles. They don't look at that, just that the tires will hold the weight. He said I can carry 30,000# with that trailer if I have the correct tires. Again, that was from a legality standpoint.
He also mentioned that with the truck limits from the MFG, they are not limiting from a legality to drive standpoint. It comes down to the states limit on each axle assuming the tires can handle the weight.
Here's the caveat.
According to this guy with the State, if you plow through a bus load of nuns and children, you might as well hand the keys over to the judge. It will be argued that a prudent person would not overload a vehicle beyond manufacturers specs.
I don't know if case law exists for this, but if anyone has info on that, I'm all ears. If I stick within the 23,000#, there isn't much room for hauling.
probably only 8-9k#'s in cargo.
-Steve
06-30-2005, 03:54 PM
#18
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Originally posted by sday
Here's the caveat.
According to this guy with the State, if you plow through a bus load of nuns and children, you might as well hand the keys over to the judge. It will be argued that a prudent person would not overload a vehicle beyond manufacturers specs.
Here's the caveat.
According to this guy with the State, if you plow through a bus load of nuns and children, you might as well hand the keys over to the judge. It will be argued that a prudent person would not overload a vehicle beyond manufacturers specs.
That's right. You've just moved into the realm of civil law.
Rusty
06-30-2005, 04:40 PM
#19
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Originally posted by Haulin_in_Dixie
You will need to know of Apportioned plates, IFTA, FMCSA authority, Single State Registration, and your states authority, to mention a few. Get caught without these is very expensive. Also you will probably need a CDL. If you are borderline, get one, be safe. Best way to not go bankrupt.
You will need to know of Apportioned plates, IFTA, FMCSA authority, Single State Registration, and your states authority, to mention a few. Get caught without these is very expensive. Also you will probably need a CDL. If you are borderline, get one, be safe. Best way to not go bankrupt.
don't forget this part of what I wrote. It is as important.
07-01-2005, 05:55 PM
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Thanks HID. I spent the better part of the day researching those important items. Along with many trailer combinations.
From what I gather, as long as I can stay below 26k# I don't need a CDL, or need to worry about any of those other complexities.
From what I read, the Dodge 3500 Quad DRW 4x4 GVWR is 9900# Which it must be below 10000#. And the GVWR of the trailer + the truck GVWR must not hit 26,000#. If I get a 16,000# GVWR trailer that weighs 7,000#, that leaves 9,000# plus the weight on the pickup, so an empy truck is 7,150#, so we'll call it a total of 11,500# cargo or 3800# per car for 3 cars. or 5750# for 2 trucks/SUV's. That should work for an average car weight and for some trucks. A Dodge 1500 Quad Cab 4x4 is 4976# empty. and a similar 2500 is 6072#.
Right to the limit, but that would work without getting into all that IFTA, PUC, Apportioned plates etc.
Right?
Thanks again,
-Steve
From what I gather, as long as I can stay below 26k# I don't need a CDL, or need to worry about any of those other complexities.
From what I read, the Dodge 3500 Quad DRW 4x4 GVWR is 9900# Which it must be below 10000#. And the GVWR of the trailer + the truck GVWR must not hit 26,000#. If I get a 16,000# GVWR trailer that weighs 7,000#, that leaves 9,000# plus the weight on the pickup, so an empy truck is 7,150#, so we'll call it a total of 11,500# cargo or 3800# per car for 3 cars. or 5750# for 2 trucks/SUV's. That should work for an average car weight and for some trucks. A Dodge 1500 Quad Cab 4x4 is 4976# empty. and a similar 2500 is 6072#.
Right to the limit, but that would work without getting into all that IFTA, PUC, Apportioned plates etc.
Right?
Thanks again,
-Steve
07-01-2005, 06:33 PM
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The GVW of the truck alone doesn't matter if you're pulling a trailer. Under 10K is if you are not pulling a trailer otherwise they look at the gross combination weight rating.... so...
The GVW of a new dually is 12K not 9900 (that's a 3500 single rear wheel).
You would want to get a trailer with a GVW of 14K to get a total of 26K (26K is ok, 26,001 is not).
Any trailer rated ABOVE 14K, the manufacturer SHOULD re-badge it for you for free or nominal fee so that your GCWR is 26K...
Under 26K avoids IFTA and should avoid CDL. Some states have some laws where trailers over 10,000 GVW needs a CDL buuuuut as long as your licensing and registering state don't have those laws you should (should?) be fine driving through those states.
From what I'm told a Take 3 model 48 weighs 6200#. This seems awfully light to me but this is what they say. My truck weighs 7K. Figure 7500 for my truck and 6500 for the trailer just for giggles, which leaves 12K which is 3 Pretty good sized cars.
I dont think that H.I.D. thinks you can do 3 cars and stay under 26K and he would know much more than I But it seems like it should be possible......on paper.
The GVW of a new dually is 12K not 9900 (that's a 3500 single rear wheel).
You would want to get a trailer with a GVW of 14K to get a total of 26K (26K is ok, 26,001 is not).
Any trailer rated ABOVE 14K, the manufacturer SHOULD re-badge it for you for free or nominal fee so that your GCWR is 26K...
Under 26K avoids IFTA and should avoid CDL. Some states have some laws where trailers over 10,000 GVW needs a CDL buuuuut as long as your licensing and registering state don't have those laws you should (should?) be fine driving through those states.
From what I'm told a Take 3 model 48 weighs 6200#. This seems awfully light to me but this is what they say. My truck weighs 7K. Figure 7500 for my truck and 6500 for the trailer just for giggles, which leaves 12K which is 3 Pretty good sized cars.
I dont think that H.I.D. thinks you can do 3 cars and stay under 26K and he would know much more than I But it seems like it should be possible......on paper.
07-01-2005, 09:48 PM
#22
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Under 26k will get you out of IFTA. You will still need authority. Get caught without it and it is like $5000 first offence. On paper as he said, it is possible but that is not how the business works. Last night I picked up a load of three cars from a regular customer. A caravan, a 4wd cherokee, and an explorer. Over 26k. Turn him down and you don't get his business. You can't be selective and pick your cars. You can't make any money that way either. The customer will use someone that can do the work.
Put it this way, set up for under 26k and go running. You get a load think it is under 26k get stopped, but you are over. You pay overweight, no CDL on a CMV, and to be sure a few others that come into play. You will not be able to drive the vehicle from that point and will have to get someone to get the freight off. They do not play games with this. Even if you weight each load what do you do when you are over after driving part way and paying $7 plus for the weight.
I am not trying to rock your boat, but paying $5000 to $7000 for insurance, plus truck payments, plus trailer payments, you can't cut corners. Get the CDL, no big deal, plate for over 26k, and most important, get authority for the feds and state. Or you can just run illegal and see how long it lasts, but the penalty is great. Whoever told you that you do not need authority under 26k has no idea what he is talking about, if you are working for money, you have to have authority. You have to run logs, have bills of lading for the freight or vehicles, medical cert, bolted in fire extinguisher, emergency equipment, annual inspection sticker or form, single state registration, and so on.
It is not impossible, everyone out there is doing it, or taking a chance. There is no free lunch in a truck operation.
Also consider that while pulling cars you may get paid on delivery, but freight you will wait till the broker feels like paying you, to put it simply. If you trip lease, you cut your freight chances greatly but staying under 26k. I tried that and could not do it although it looks good on paper. Get caught over 26k and the CDL fine can be 5000 for the carrier (you) and 5000 for the driver (you)
Stop at any truck stop and pick up a FMCSA handbook that you are required to have anyway. You are no different than a big truck, read the regulations, they are all there.
Put it this way, set up for under 26k and go running. You get a load think it is under 26k get stopped, but you are over. You pay overweight, no CDL on a CMV, and to be sure a few others that come into play. You will not be able to drive the vehicle from that point and will have to get someone to get the freight off. They do not play games with this. Even if you weight each load what do you do when you are over after driving part way and paying $7 plus for the weight.
I am not trying to rock your boat, but paying $5000 to $7000 for insurance, plus truck payments, plus trailer payments, you can't cut corners. Get the CDL, no big deal, plate for over 26k, and most important, get authority for the feds and state. Or you can just run illegal and see how long it lasts, but the penalty is great. Whoever told you that you do not need authority under 26k has no idea what he is talking about, if you are working for money, you have to have authority. You have to run logs, have bills of lading for the freight or vehicles, medical cert, bolted in fire extinguisher, emergency equipment, annual inspection sticker or form, single state registration, and so on.
It is not impossible, everyone out there is doing it, or taking a chance. There is no free lunch in a truck operation.
Also consider that while pulling cars you may get paid on delivery, but freight you will wait till the broker feels like paying you, to put it simply. If you trip lease, you cut your freight chances greatly but staying under 26k. I tried that and could not do it although it looks good on paper. Get caught over 26k and the CDL fine can be 5000 for the carrier (you) and 5000 for the driver (you)
Stop at any truck stop and pick up a FMCSA handbook that you are required to have anyway. You are no different than a big truck, read the regulations, they are all there.
one of these days we will have to put together a Getting into the trucking business FAQ...
07-02-2005, 05:37 PM
#24
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Njoverkill, I think the reasoning from ODOT about the 10k# for the towing vehicle, is because if I go over 10k#, it is now considered a CMV, and if I engage in Interstate Commerce, I now fall under the rules of the FMCSA. Thanks for the correction on the 26,001 lbs.
Commerce means:
(1) Any trade, traffic or transportation within the jurisdiction of the United States between a place in a State and a place outside of such State, including a place outside of the United States; and
(2) Trade, traffic, and transportation in the United States which affects any trade, traffic, and transportation described in paragraph (1) of this definition.
Commercial motor vehicle means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the vehicle --
(1) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 or more pounds) inclusive of a towed unit with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds); or
A great place I noticed to determine if you need FMCSA authority:
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...mply/index.asp
So basically HID is correct and I will need a CDL, join the circus and jump through all the hoops.
HID, you didn't just rock my boat, you sank it. Better to sink in the lake than out in the middle of the ocean. So my question is what is your philosophy on being greater than the Manufacturers recommendation for towing? Meaning, how would you defend your position in court if you plow through a load of nuns and school kids?
From the Dodge Towing Guide: (Funny thing is it doesn’t specify SRW or DRW, and these #’s are different than the specs page for the 3500 product. So either we assume 9900# is SRW and 12200# is DRW, or we assume the website isn’t really a worthwhile resource for GVWR.
2005 RAM 3500
Laramie, Quad Cab, 4x4, 8 Ft, 5.9L Cummins Turbo Diesel Engine - 610 lb-ft, 6-Speed HD Manual Transmission
With 4.10 Axle Ratio You Can Tow 15250 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating(GVWR)[i]=12200
Payload[i]=4614
Curb Weight[i]=7586
Curb WeightFront/Rear=4537/3049
GAWR[i]Front/Rear=5200/9350
Gross Combination Weight Rating(GCWR)[i]=23000
With 3.73 Axle Ratio You Can Tow 13250 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating(GVWR)[i]=12200
Payload[i]=4614
Curb Weight[i]=7586
Curb WeightFront/Rear=4537/3049
GAWR[i]Front/Rear=5200/9350
Gross Combination Weight Rating(GCWR)[i]=21000
Commerce means:
(1) Any trade, traffic or transportation within the jurisdiction of the United States between a place in a State and a place outside of such State, including a place outside of the United States; and
(2) Trade, traffic, and transportation in the United States which affects any trade, traffic, and transportation described in paragraph (1) of this definition.
Commercial motor vehicle means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the vehicle --
(1) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 or more pounds) inclusive of a towed unit with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds); or
A great place I noticed to determine if you need FMCSA authority:
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...mply/index.asp
So basically HID is correct and I will need a CDL, join the circus and jump through all the hoops.
HID, you didn't just rock my boat, you sank it. Better to sink in the lake than out in the middle of the ocean. So my question is what is your philosophy on being greater than the Manufacturers recommendation for towing? Meaning, how would you defend your position in court if you plow through a load of nuns and school kids?
From the Dodge Towing Guide: (Funny thing is it doesn’t specify SRW or DRW, and these #’s are different than the specs page for the 3500 product. So either we assume 9900# is SRW and 12200# is DRW, or we assume the website isn’t really a worthwhile resource for GVWR.
2005 RAM 3500
Laramie, Quad Cab, 4x4, 8 Ft, 5.9L Cummins Turbo Diesel Engine - 610 lb-ft, 6-Speed HD Manual Transmission
With 4.10 Axle Ratio You Can Tow 15250 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating(GVWR)[i]=12200
Payload[i]=4614
Curb Weight[i]=7586
Curb WeightFront/Rear=4537/3049
GAWR[i]Front/Rear=5200/9350
Gross Combination Weight Rating(GCWR)[i]=23000
With 3.73 Axle Ratio You Can Tow 13250 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating(GVWR)[i]=12200
Payload[i]=4614
Curb Weight[i]=7586
Curb WeightFront/Rear=4537/3049
GAWR[i]Front/Rear=5200/9350
Gross Combination Weight Rating(GCWR)[i]=21000
07-02-2005, 06:04 PM
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Please correct me if I'm wrong. In light of the above information...
If I have a vehicle with a stamped plate of 10,000# GVWR and a trailer with a stamped GVWR of 16,000#. I am NOT classified as a CMV. However if I'm caught above that weight as HID points out, I will be fined for operating outside my classification.
If I'm NOT classified as a CMV I don't need a CDL.
This means I'm not required to operate with FMCSA Authority, because that is only for a CMV.
HID, your point about it looking good on paper is well taken. I'm sure I'll be cutting out many revenue streams, but this is not a full time job for me. I'm sick of flying down to the bay area from my house, as I'm a "standby" passenger who gets bumped frequently. Instead of sitting in the airport for 6 hrs, I'll do the 6hr drive about 3-4 times a month. I'm not looking to make a living, just enough to pay for the equipment, gas and maybe a little coin to pay for food and surfboard rental each week in Honolulu. (or Maui depending on my schedule)
Thanks again for the info, and please correct me if I'm wrong. I keep reading your point about FMCSA, but I cannot find where they indicate any oversight for < 26k# vehicles. It seems stricly related to CMV's.
-Steve
If I have a vehicle with a stamped plate of 10,000# GVWR and a trailer with a stamped GVWR of 16,000#. I am NOT classified as a CMV. However if I'm caught above that weight as HID points out, I will be fined for operating outside my classification.
If I'm NOT classified as a CMV I don't need a CDL.
This means I'm not required to operate with FMCSA Authority, because that is only for a CMV.
HID, your point about it looking good on paper is well taken. I'm sure I'll be cutting out many revenue streams, but this is not a full time job for me. I'm sick of flying down to the bay area from my house, as I'm a "standby" passenger who gets bumped frequently. Instead of sitting in the airport for 6 hrs, I'll do the 6hr drive about 3-4 times a month. I'm not looking to make a living, just enough to pay for the equipment, gas and maybe a little coin to pay for food and surfboard rental each week in Honolulu. (or Maui depending on my schedule)
Thanks again for the info, and please correct me if I'm wrong. I keep reading your point about FMCSA, but I cannot find where they indicate any oversight for < 26k# vehicles. It seems stricly related to CMV's.
-Steve
07-02-2005, 11:12 PM
#26
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I edited this for accuracy...
Sday you don't quite have it yet. You took that discription of the CMV from the CDL section. For the purposes of a CDL you are correct. For the purposes of authority it is in another section, If you are paid to haul property on your truck, you are a commercial vehicle. I have no intentions of arguing this or stating it over and over, but that is the way it is. You have to have authority and signs on the door, minimum 2 inches high letters with the name of the company as on the authority, the home terminal city, and the USDOT number.
This is one of the favorite stops that Alabama makes on the highway. They sit in Irondale, Alabama on some days and constantly pull over some hard working young man that is carrying lawn equipment to his jobs on a small trailer or the pickup and write them up. If you are taking the lawn tractor to grandma's house you are private, but if it is going to a job site, you are commercial.
To haul cars on your truck that are not your personal cars, you have to have Common Carrier Authority, ie an MC number and a USDOT number.
Oregon is probably making a distinction at 10,000 pounds where over that you have to purchase a commercial tag. In Alabama you purchase basically a passenger car tag up to a certain weight then have to purchase an X1, X2, or on up to X9 depending on your weight. I run an X3 which is 33,000 pounds. X2 is 26,000 pounds, not sure where the break point is for the lower plates, never used them.
Also to operate a Common Carrier you have to have 750,000 liability with a registered insurance company. The amount will be lower for only Oregon. Alabama only insurance is only 300,000, it is probably a like amount for Oregon, but I do not know that. The single state registration is the method that registers your insurance in the states that you will run. It took the place of the old bingo card.
From the FMCSA web site:
3. What is the definition of a for-hire carrier?
The definition of a " for-hire " carrier is a person or company that provides transportation of cargo or passengers for compensation. If you are a for-hire carrier, in addition to the USDOT number you will also need to obtain operating authority (MC number).
37. How do I determine whether I am subject to FMCSA's safety regulations?
If you operate any of the following types of commercial motor vehicles in interstate commerce you must comply with the applicable U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT) safety regulations concerning: CDL: controlled substances and alcohol testing for all persons required to possess a CDL: driver qualifications (including medical exams); driving of commercial motor vehicles; parts and accessories necessary for safe operations; hours of service; and inspection, repair and maintenance.
(1) A vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 4,537 kg (10,001 lb) or more, whichever is greater;
Hope all this helps.....
Sday you don't quite have it yet. You took that discription of the CMV from the CDL section. For the purposes of a CDL you are correct. For the purposes of authority it is in another section, If you are paid to haul property on your truck, you are a commercial vehicle. I have no intentions of arguing this or stating it over and over, but that is the way it is. You have to have authority and signs on the door, minimum 2 inches high letters with the name of the company as on the authority, the home terminal city, and the USDOT number.
This is one of the favorite stops that Alabama makes on the highway. They sit in Irondale, Alabama on some days and constantly pull over some hard working young man that is carrying lawn equipment to his jobs on a small trailer or the pickup and write them up. If you are taking the lawn tractor to grandma's house you are private, but if it is going to a job site, you are commercial.
To haul cars on your truck that are not your personal cars, you have to have Common Carrier Authority, ie an MC number and a USDOT number.
Oregon is probably making a distinction at 10,000 pounds where over that you have to purchase a commercial tag. In Alabama you purchase basically a passenger car tag up to a certain weight then have to purchase an X1, X2, or on up to X9 depending on your weight. I run an X3 which is 33,000 pounds. X2 is 26,000 pounds, not sure where the break point is for the lower plates, never used them.
Also to operate a Common Carrier you have to have 750,000 liability with a registered insurance company. The amount will be lower for only Oregon. Alabama only insurance is only 300,000, it is probably a like amount for Oregon, but I do not know that. The single state registration is the method that registers your insurance in the states that you will run. It took the place of the old bingo card.
From the FMCSA web site:
3. What is the definition of a for-hire carrier?
The definition of a " for-hire " carrier is a person or company that provides transportation of cargo or passengers for compensation. If you are a for-hire carrier, in addition to the USDOT number you will also need to obtain operating authority (MC number).
37. How do I determine whether I am subject to FMCSA's safety regulations?
If you operate any of the following types of commercial motor vehicles in interstate commerce you must comply with the applicable U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT) safety regulations concerning: CDL: controlled substances and alcohol testing for all persons required to possess a CDL: driver qualifications (including medical exams); driving of commercial motor vehicles; parts and accessories necessary for safe operations; hours of service; and inspection, repair and maintenance.
(1) A vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 4,537 kg (10,001 lb) or more, whichever is greater;
Hope all this helps.....
07-03-2005, 12:16 AM
#27
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Thanks again. I wasn't trying to argue this, I'm just doing my diligence so to speak. I very much appreciate your efforts to educate me, and I think I now do get it. Some how the GCWR escaped me.
The GCWR is definitely over 10k# unless I start hauling Helium, and if memory serves me correctly, it isn't a Hazardous material, so that might work. :-)
-------------------------------------------
From the CFR's.
A commercial motor vehicle is any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle: (1) has a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) or gross combination weight rating (GCWR)—or a gross vehicle weight (GVW) or gross combination weight (GCW)—of 4,536 kilograms (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater...
-----------------------------------------
So whenever you haul anything for money in a Dodge 3500 4x4 DRW Diesel, you're Personal Vehicle becomes a commercial vehicle. End of story.
That kills my other line of thought. I was looking at going down to a 2500, but that doesn't matter either.
The fact is I need to just go forward with my CDL stuff and pay the big bucks. Time to re-evaluate.
Thanks again for your perseverance in my attempt to understand yet another section of the CFR's. (The aviation side is just as boring)
Still curious on your line of thinking with respect to exceeding the MFG. recommended towing weight with respect to legal action.
Respectfully,
-Steve
The GCWR is definitely over 10k# unless I start hauling Helium, and if memory serves me correctly, it isn't a Hazardous material, so that might work. :-)
-------------------------------------------
From the CFR's.
A commercial motor vehicle is any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle: (1) has a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) or gross combination weight rating (GCWR)—or a gross vehicle weight (GVW) or gross combination weight (GCW)—of 4,536 kilograms (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater...
-----------------------------------------
So whenever you haul anything for money in a Dodge 3500 4x4 DRW Diesel, you're Personal Vehicle becomes a commercial vehicle. End of story.
That kills my other line of thought. I was looking at going down to a 2500, but that doesn't matter either.
The fact is I need to just go forward with my CDL stuff and pay the big bucks. Time to re-evaluate.
Thanks again for your perseverance in my attempt to understand yet another section of the CFR's. (The aviation side is just as boring)
Still curious on your line of thinking with respect to exceeding the MFG. recommended towing weight with respect to legal action.
Respectfully,
-Steve
07-03-2005, 01:21 AM
#28
Registered User
Steve the easiest way to put this I think, Dodge does not post a legal combination weight limit and I fulfil the legal status. If I hit a car load of Nuns with anything, I'm in big trouble. That said, I have a lot of experience and that is not likely. In my financial situation and health there is not much that they could get from me anyway. All they could do is put a lien on my estate. That is if they could get a judgement against me, which I seriously doubt. I run legal and am meticulous about the details. If you were only 10k and hit a bus of kids or the car load of Nuns, they would still try for a judgement, you can't live your life paranoid. Alabama state law says I am legal, it would be hard to prove otherwise. If it were a big risk, I promase the insurance company would not be too interested in the big policy.
07-03-2005, 04:30 AM
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Even though Dodge doesn't put a sticker on the door they do have published GCVW''s for their vehicles and don't think an attorney wouldn't dig it up . No matter how well you drive some idiot can always pull right out in front of you .
From what I've seen the rule regarding trailers over 10,000 lbs. GVW requiring a CDL only applies when the tow vehicles has a GCVW of over 26,000 lbs .
From what I've seen the rule regarding trailers over 10,000 lbs. GVW requiring a CDL only applies when the tow vehicles has a GCVW of over 26,000 lbs .
07-03-2005, 08:26 AM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
SDAY,
I have read the thread and what HID says is true if you are classified as commercial or "for hire". True Commercial or "for hire" trucking is if you hacve a CDL (over 26K) and are hauling other peoples cargo for money or compensation. If you are only hauling your own cargo and are under 26K you do not need the very expensive commercial insurace. State laws differ but in my state they only require commercial insurance for one of two reasons, you are "For Hire" and/or you are over 26K, require a CDL. One other thing to consider that I dont think was mentioned in the thread was what you were hauling and if you were going "for hire". Do you plan on going over state lines? If you go over state lines even in a not "for hire" truck you do have to get setup with FMCA with a DOT number and medical card, logs the second you cross state lines all of thier rules come into play.
I haul my cars only for my own independent car lot and stay under 26K, as long as I own every car on my trailer I am not "For Hire". I dont look at the 26K as something I would like to do, but something I have to do. In fact if I have to I will make a second trip if needed to get all of my cars instead of pushing the limits, the fines for violating the weight limits are designed to make you never do it again and they usually throw the book at you. When you get into DOT and FMCA the fines very high. The trailer I use is a "Take 3" brand 53' 4 car hauler, actual weight is 7K. Truck weighs 9K so that leaves me 10K for cars. I will NEVER get four cars on there and stay under 26K unless I buy 4 Yugos. My trailer is tagged for 14K and truck is tagged/weighted for 26K, no more. The State boys will stop you and so will DOT guys, in my state they are now one in the same. Have your do-do together when you get stopped and the most important thing required is proper tagging of the truck and proper licensing. The boys will stop you and check if you are legal, it is not a matter of if, but when, trust me. I have owned my trailer less than a year, made less than 12 trips with it and have been stopped twice. Also make sure that your state does not have a special license classification for trailers up to 26K...you will need that too if required.
Hope this helps.
I have read the thread and what HID says is true if you are classified as commercial or "for hire". True Commercial or "for hire" trucking is if you hacve a CDL (over 26K) and are hauling other peoples cargo for money or compensation. If you are only hauling your own cargo and are under 26K you do not need the very expensive commercial insurace. State laws differ but in my state they only require commercial insurance for one of two reasons, you are "For Hire" and/or you are over 26K, require a CDL. One other thing to consider that I dont think was mentioned in the thread was what you were hauling and if you were going "for hire". Do you plan on going over state lines? If you go over state lines even in a not "for hire" truck you do have to get setup with FMCA with a DOT number and medical card, logs the second you cross state lines all of thier rules come into play.
I haul my cars only for my own independent car lot and stay under 26K, as long as I own every car on my trailer I am not "For Hire". I dont look at the 26K as something I would like to do, but something I have to do. In fact if I have to I will make a second trip if needed to get all of my cars instead of pushing the limits, the fines for violating the weight limits are designed to make you never do it again and they usually throw the book at you. When you get into DOT and FMCA the fines very high. The trailer I use is a "Take 3" brand 53' 4 car hauler, actual weight is 7K. Truck weighs 9K so that leaves me 10K for cars. I will NEVER get four cars on there and stay under 26K unless I buy 4 Yugos. My trailer is tagged for 14K and truck is tagged/weighted for 26K, no more. The State boys will stop you and so will DOT guys, in my state they are now one in the same. Have your do-do together when you get stopped and the most important thing required is proper tagging of the truck and proper licensing. The boys will stop you and check if you are legal, it is not a matter of if, but when, trust me. I have owned my trailer less than a year, made less than 12 trips with it and have been stopped twice. Also make sure that your state does not have a special license classification for trailers up to 26K...you will need that too if required.
Hope this helps.