I have a 28 foot 5th wheel camper, currently being towed by a Dodge, Ram 3/4 ton 4 wheel drive with a 5.9 Cumming diesel.

I am looking at a new truck. and was wondering the pros and cons of going with a 1 ton dually with the Cummings diesel(quad cab full size bed) vs a 3/4 ton quad cab, short bed and the Cummins diesel> I would like to know if there would be a significant difference in towing and handling.
PS Any thoughts on using an engine brake???

 

jkfrederick: Welcome to the site. You will find some great people and great information here. As far as your choice of trucks, if you are going to stay with the 28' fiver, you should be happy with the short bed truck. If you decide to go bigger, heavier in the future, you would be better off with the dually. The long bed will give you a better ride and a bit more stability with the heavier, longer trailer. The dual wheels will give you a great deal more stability with the bigger rig. The longer bed is also easier to deal with when it comes to towing a fiver. My fiver is 31' and weighs about 11K when loaded, and I'm glad that I have a dually. FWIW

DeWain

 

Here is a link to a previous thread on this subject:
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...threadid=38694
This should help.

 

I have a 27' fiver. it weighs in at about 10K. I pulled this trailer with 2 previous Ram 2500s, last being an 01 2500 HO 6sp with 4.10 gears. This truck handled the fiver quite well but when I got my 03 3500 DRW there was a noticeable difference in the stability of the whole setup. The 2500 used to "bounce" in the rear with the trailer on but the 3500 bounces much less. I really bought the 3500 DRW with a larger fiver in mind but even on the 27 footer I wouldn't go back.

 

In order to turn tight with a short box, you'll need the sliding hitch. I know of one broken rear window.

I've got a 27' 5'er, long box. I had bounce as well. The Rancho 9000's fixed that. Set on 1 for solo, top setting towing, end of problem. The stock shocks are a compromise. I had Rancho 5000's, which were great for towing, but too harsh for solo ... for me anyway.

 

The problem with SRW trucks in 5th wheel towing service is that the 5th wheel transfers such a high percentage of the loaded trailer weight (up to 20% or more) to the truck as pin weight. This pin weight counts against the truck's GVWR. Therefore, in 5th wheel applications, SRW trucks will invariably run out of GVWR before they run out of GCWR.

Take the case of our 13,500 lb 36' triple slide 5th wheel. By certified truck scales, we hit the road at 10,380 lbs GVW (10,500 lbs GVWR) and 21,180 lbs GCW (21,500 lbs GCWR). The highest GVWR available on a SRW truck is 9900 lbs on the 3rd generation 3500 SRW - not enough, and ours is a light 5th wheel for its size.

Rusty

 

Rusty your numbers are off by quite a bit. The 03 3500 SRW withe 4.1 rear end can handle another 4klbs.
I do however agree with you about he should maybe go with the 3500 DRW just for the added carrying ability.

 

I don't think so. GVWR of the 3rd generation 3500 SRW is 9900 lbs. GVWR of the 3rd generation DRW is 12,000 lbs. GCWR is 21,000 lbs with the 3.73 and 23,000 lbs with the 4.10.

Here is the link to the 2004 Dodge Towing guide if you want to confirm these numbers (thanks to Ken Lenger).

Rusty

 

My bad
You are correct the GVRW is 9900 but the towing weight is about 4klbs more.
Anyway in his case he should look at the 3500 dually with a 4.10 rearend.

 

Try this link.

http://www.dodge.com/ram_truck/index...pe=vehicle_nav

Click on "Dodge Towing Guide", lower right. Follow the prompts to build your RAM and all of the ratings will be provided when finished. This one is for a 3500 Quad, SRW:

With 3.73 Axle Ratio [i] You Can Tow 14350 lbs2
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) [i] = 9900 lbs
Payload [i] = 3404 lbs1
Curb Weight [i] = 6496 lbs
Curb Weight Front/Rear = 3786 / 2710 lbs
GAWR [i] Front/Rear = 4750 / 6150 lbs
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) [i] = 21000 lbs



With 4.1 Axle Ratio [i] You Can Tow 16350 lbs2
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) [i] = 9900 lbs
Payload [i] = 3404 lbs1
Curb Weight [i] = 6496 lbs
Curb Weight Front/Rear = 3786 / 2710 lbs
GAWR [i] Front/Rear = 4750 / 6150 lbs
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) [i] = 23000 lbs

 

RAM 3500 Quad SRW - GVWR=9900 = truck, fuel, passengers + cargo

Truck Curb weight (includes fuel) =6496
Driver + 3 passengers =650
5th wheel hitch =200
Trailer tongue weight =2200
Total =9546

GVWR - actual loaded weight = breathing room
9900 - 9546 = 354 lbs to spare

 

The problem with manufacturers' "trailer tow ratings" is that they ignore the hitch/pin weight differences between a 5th wheel and a bumper pull (conventional) trailer. Please re-read my previous post on this issue.

If one tried to tow a 16,350 lb 5th wheel with a SRW truck (see previous post - up 2 from this one), the pin weight transferred to the truck (assuming 20% of total trailer weight - pretty typical) would be 3,270 lbs. If we take 9900 lbs GVWR - 3270 lbs pin weight = 6630 lbs maximum allowable laden curb weight (LCW) of truck without exceeding truck GVWR. Laden curb weight is the weight of the truck with driver, passengers, options, accessories (including 5th wheel hitch), fuel, cargo, etc. I don't believe you can find a 3500 SRW with Cummins that will get anywhere near this 6630 lbs number - our 2WD 3500 has a LCW of 7680 lbs! The only way to be sure is to load it up and take it to the scales where you can get a certified weight ticket.

It all boils down to the following equations:

Truck GCWR - truck LCW = maximum allowable total weight of loaded trailer.

Truck GVWR - truck LCW = maximum allowable pin/hitch weight of loaded trailer.

If the loaded trailer weights aren't available, a conservative approach is to use the trailer's GVWR for laden weight and 20% (for 5th wheels) or 12% (for conventionals) of the trailer's GVWR for pin/hitch weight.

That's why I said the SRW truck will run out of GVWR long before it runs out of GCWR. As a Moderator on iRV2.com, I see people making this mistake all too frequently.

Rusty

 

RustyJC

Are the trailer manufacturer pin weights not reasonably close? The ones I've been looking at are trailers in the 33 to 38 foot range and show pin weights between 1800 and 2300#. I know items added to the trailer will affect the pin weight, but aside from having full tanks, how much would you load into a trailer?
I'd probably run with empty tanks anyway.

 

What you get from the 5th wheel manufacturers are "dry pin weights". Even then, almost all 5th wheel manufacturers are as bad as truck manufacturers - they grossly understate the dry weights (both total and pin weights) of their rigs. For instance, most don't include any options (factory or dealer), and of course dry weight excludes the weight of the propane, etc.

In addition, look where they put the storage bays, closets, etc. On our 5th wheel, every bit of basement storage and almost all interior storage cabinets that will carry any weight are ahead of the trailer axles. That's also where the dealer installed washer/dryer, 2nd A/C, (etc., etc.) went - ahead of the axles. Therefore, all of this stuff increases pin weight.

In our case, our 36 foot triple slide 5ver (with dry tanks) is running right at 13,500 lbs. when we hit the road - and it's light for its size. Of that 13,500 lbs, 10,800 is on the axles, and 2,700 lbs (20%) is on the pin. The weight sticker that they place in the cabinet by the door says it left the plant at around 10,900 lbs - I have no idea how accurate that figure is. That means we've put 2,600 lbs into the thing with dealer options, our stuff, etc. if the 10,900 lbs is accurate (I think it's low). I don't have the brochure here with me, but the 10,900 lbs is higher than the brochure dry weight.

That's why I suggested being conservative and basing calculations off of the RV's GVWR. The only place this doesn't work or even come close is for some RVs with extremely high net carrying capacities (NCC) like the Arctic Fox line.

Rusty

 

Rusty

Thanks for all the help. We're looking for a 5er as well. We have the truck so now I have a better idea of limits on the trailer. How did people make an informed decision before the internet - ask the salesman? I'm sure the answer would be, "Sure your truck will handle that trailer, noooo problem"

Dave