DTR censorship
10-22-2006, 10:19 PM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
DTR censorship
I was going to post this as a reply in the post entitled "why" but I missed out and it got closed while I was typing. My reply follows, as I feel that the subject was not completely covered and there are still some questions in my mind as to why things are handled the way they are.
Posting links to profanity is pretty much a no-brainer, if you ask me. DTR tries to keep a clean forum and I understand that, and it seems that most others understand that as well. If you purposely post a link to a site with objectionable material, such as ****, you deserve to be given a strike.
Cussing is not allowed, which I understand. I cuss and don't even think twice about it sometimes. When I log in here, I make a note to watch what I say, so that I don't violate the rules as I have done more than once. Simple enough. I get on another site and it's totally different, you can drop F-bombs and it's no big deal. Every site is different and as a member of a particular site, you are expected to abide by the rules when you sign up. Rules are easy. They make sense, in most cases.
However, I do have a few issues with some of the rules here, and thought I might bring them to an open discussion so that I can get some answers from those "in the know."
As you can read in my previous paragraphs, I understand that there are rules, and I understand why there are rules regarding profanity and cussing and other things that are not appropriate in a large, public forum. What I fail to understand is the very strict moderation that takes place here. Allow me to elaborate.
There was a picture of a Mega Cab longbed posted up recently. Very quickly, that picture was taken down. A member asked why, and only then was there an answer to it. It was a violation of the site's ad rules. In a classy move, the picture was allowed back up after modification, which we all appreciate. However, the process by which it was removed is what makes me shake my head.
Forums were started as a resource, a way to help people. The Internet was invented to share information. DTR's forums are here so that people can share information and help each other. At least, that is my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong. Someone gets on here, asks a question, and people answer it, that's the system. The problem is that the system has too many kinks in it. What if I posted up and asked if anybody had ever seen a Mega Cab long bed? The answers would be limited to "Yes, but I can't tell you where, because it would be a violation of the site's rules." As the site's rules stand, even someone PM'ing me that information would be a violation, right? It would be the same type of thing, except only one person would see the illegal advertisement, as opposed to hundreds or thousands. It's still a "waste" of bandwidth as far as DTR sees it, until that business spends money here and either buys an ad or pays to be allowed to post. Only then can they be mentioned without censorship. I think that this is the wrong attitude to have, personally. I also know that DTR leaders are reading this and thinking "Well, if you don't like it, you can always leave." That is also the wrong attitude to have. As I said before, forums were made to help people share information. It seems as if, from time to time, that DTR is not concerned with helping people... it is concerned only with the bottom line. I'll provide another example.
Look in the 3rd gen performance section. There has been talk about a FAQ sticky for a long time. I offered to make one on my own time, to help the site out. I never received an answer from anybody from DTR. It was recently brought up again in a thread and once again, there is no answer. DTR is not interested in a FAQ in the 3rd gen forum. Why? There can only be one reason why. Putting another sticky up would take up precious self-advertising room that DTR can use to promote their own store. Right now, there is one announcement and four sticky posts in the 3rd gen performance forum, all to persuade users to spend money here. I understand making money, it's second nature to me. And DTR has a great opportunity to make money by selling items in an online store that is part of a site with tons of people on it. However, DTR would be foolish to think that all of these people are here just to spend money in an online store. We are here for the info, not the sales. I came here because I want to learn and I want to help others. I spent several thousand dollars with some of DTR's advertisers, but it had nothing to do with anything except that they saw my posts and either replied or PM'ed me and offered a solution. I appreciate that personal touch. DTR could have had my money but instead of going out and trying to earn that dollar, it's easier to take up space in the forums with arrogant sticky posts, as if those posts are important enough that everyone here needs to read them. There are a lot better ways to promote the DTR shop, than for DTR to abuse it's power like that. What if I was a paying advertiser and I wanted my new product to be promoted in the same fashion? Would DTR do that for a product that they would not sell in their store? I think not. DTR comes off to me as a very selfish, biased place. The people that run the site are probably very nice people, and I have no problem with anybody personally. I am only talking about the rules and the way in which DTR is managed, and I'm trying to do this in as tactful of a way as possible.
What brought me to this post is that I saw a link to my personal website in my signature was "ad removed site violation." This comes after my original signature was modified for me a couple of months ago. My first signature had a link to my own forum. DTR seems to have a real hard time with other sites existing and being mentioned here. My site is small, and in no way competes with DTR. I'm not even complaining about that link being deleted, although it's questionable in my mind. I look at it like the link was there, if somebody read one of my posts and wanted to click it, fine. I wasn't saying "Hey, click the link in my sig, I have a forum and we'll answer the question over there instead." I answered stuff here. Again, forums are for helping people. I can help more people here than my own site simply because of the number of people reading posts here. I want to help others, because so many people have helped me over the past seven years on various forums. So then why is it such a big deal to have a link to a separate, smaller forum in my signature? My forum is geared more towards suspension questions, and there is some good information available in FAQ's and other posts. There is information available on my site that you simply cannot get here on DTR. But DTR looks at it like I am taking traffic away from this site, and therefore my signature gets modified. It's the wrong way to handle it. Instead, look at it from a positive point of view... they found the link on DTR, reading posts on DTR. DTR offers a lot more than my site could ever offer, it's not like they are going to quit visiting here. They would visit both. The point is, DTR takes a negative approach to just about everything, and it really shows. Be helpful, don't be selfish. It would be foolish of DTR to think that once a person found this site, they would never want to visit another site again. Every forum has it's strong points, and people visit it for that. I go to one site for diesel stuff, one site for suspension stuff, one site for chit chatting about truck stuff, and so on. DTR is not the final answer to every question. But as I said, this isn't even what got me to this post. I don't care about my signature being modified to remove the link to my forum. What bothers me is that I can't even have a link to my personal website full of pictures and a little bit of helpful info, in my signature here, as a user of DTR. Has the censorship gotten so strict that the only images I can share, unless specifically posted, are going to be in my DTR album? Heck, a user's album is harder to access now than before, so even that information is a little more out of reach. It's like this place is purposely trying to control what people look at. Lighten up. I suggest DTR gets back to it's roots... help people. If you quit making people mad by censoring so much, and start helping people instead, I promise you that your bottom line will increase. Right now, it's like the products are being forced down our throat. Back off, we all know the store is available, we all know you ship quickly and stand behind what you sell. Everyone knows that. Create a new forum and put your latest products for sale in there. People that are associated with DTR could offer up helpful answers to posts in the various forums and also let the person know that DTR sells the product in question, or something that will fix the problem in question, and I promise you that people will react much more positively to that than the current system. The ****-esque censorship is really quite irritating, and it's easy to see that I am not the only one that is bored with it. Sure, you can tell me to take a hike, or put me in a time-out, or ban me altogether. If that is your answer to every person that questions DTR's rules and guidelines, that is unfortunate and I hate to see it because this site could be twice the site it is if the moderation weren't so insanely heavy. I hope you all will take this as constructive criticism and consider some of the points I have brought up. I understand a lot of the rules, but I fail to understand the reasoning behind a few of them, especially when they do more harm to this site than good. Most of all, I hope DTR will consider being more grass-roots and allow this place to function as a forum should function, with information flowing from person to person, unrestricted, and only censored for profanity and other evils. If people can't get their information here, I guarantee you they will go somewhere else, it's only a matter of time.
I do appreciate DTR being a free site, and for doing such a great job at advertising it's existence so that I was able to find it when I started searching for a good Dodge diesel truck forum. I am not a member of TDR because I do not believe that you should be forced to pay to use a site. Donations are one thing, but a forced contribution is morally wrong and I resent that. I came here because there are a ton of members and it's free, however before I noticed the heavy censorship, I would have gladly paid more than $35 a year to help keep the site running. I support helpful sites and enjoy doing so. DTR is a good place and it has a good thing going. There is always room for improvement and I hope that my suggestions and concerns will be looked upon as constructive criticism and positive ideas. It's a great place, let's make it even better.
Posting links to profanity is pretty much a no-brainer, if you ask me. DTR tries to keep a clean forum and I understand that, and it seems that most others understand that as well. If you purposely post a link to a site with objectionable material, such as ****, you deserve to be given a strike.
Cussing is not allowed, which I understand. I cuss and don't even think twice about it sometimes. When I log in here, I make a note to watch what I say, so that I don't violate the rules as I have done more than once. Simple enough. I get on another site and it's totally different, you can drop F-bombs and it's no big deal. Every site is different and as a member of a particular site, you are expected to abide by the rules when you sign up. Rules are easy. They make sense, in most cases.
However, I do have a few issues with some of the rules here, and thought I might bring them to an open discussion so that I can get some answers from those "in the know."
As you can read in my previous paragraphs, I understand that there are rules, and I understand why there are rules regarding profanity and cussing and other things that are not appropriate in a large, public forum. What I fail to understand is the very strict moderation that takes place here. Allow me to elaborate.
There was a picture of a Mega Cab longbed posted up recently. Very quickly, that picture was taken down. A member asked why, and only then was there an answer to it. It was a violation of the site's ad rules. In a classy move, the picture was allowed back up after modification, which we all appreciate. However, the process by which it was removed is what makes me shake my head.
Forums were started as a resource, a way to help people. The Internet was invented to share information. DTR's forums are here so that people can share information and help each other. At least, that is my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong. Someone gets on here, asks a question, and people answer it, that's the system. The problem is that the system has too many kinks in it. What if I posted up and asked if anybody had ever seen a Mega Cab long bed? The answers would be limited to "Yes, but I can't tell you where, because it would be a violation of the site's rules." As the site's rules stand, even someone PM'ing me that information would be a violation, right? It would be the same type of thing, except only one person would see the illegal advertisement, as opposed to hundreds or thousands. It's still a "waste" of bandwidth as far as DTR sees it, until that business spends money here and either buys an ad or pays to be allowed to post. Only then can they be mentioned without censorship. I think that this is the wrong attitude to have, personally. I also know that DTR leaders are reading this and thinking "Well, if you don't like it, you can always leave." That is also the wrong attitude to have. As I said before, forums were made to help people share information. It seems as if, from time to time, that DTR is not concerned with helping people... it is concerned only with the bottom line. I'll provide another example.
Look in the 3rd gen performance section. There has been talk about a FAQ sticky for a long time. I offered to make one on my own time, to help the site out. I never received an answer from anybody from DTR. It was recently brought up again in a thread and once again, there is no answer. DTR is not interested in a FAQ in the 3rd gen forum. Why? There can only be one reason why. Putting another sticky up would take up precious self-advertising room that DTR can use to promote their own store. Right now, there is one announcement and four sticky posts in the 3rd gen performance forum, all to persuade users to spend money here. I understand making money, it's second nature to me. And DTR has a great opportunity to make money by selling items in an online store that is part of a site with tons of people on it. However, DTR would be foolish to think that all of these people are here just to spend money in an online store. We are here for the info, not the sales. I came here because I want to learn and I want to help others. I spent several thousand dollars with some of DTR's advertisers, but it had nothing to do with anything except that they saw my posts and either replied or PM'ed me and offered a solution. I appreciate that personal touch. DTR could have had my money but instead of going out and trying to earn that dollar, it's easier to take up space in the forums with arrogant sticky posts, as if those posts are important enough that everyone here needs to read them. There are a lot better ways to promote the DTR shop, than for DTR to abuse it's power like that. What if I was a paying advertiser and I wanted my new product to be promoted in the same fashion? Would DTR do that for a product that they would not sell in their store? I think not. DTR comes off to me as a very selfish, biased place. The people that run the site are probably very nice people, and I have no problem with anybody personally. I am only talking about the rules and the way in which DTR is managed, and I'm trying to do this in as tactful of a way as possible.
What brought me to this post is that I saw a link to my personal website in my signature was "ad removed site violation." This comes after my original signature was modified for me a couple of months ago. My first signature had a link to my own forum. DTR seems to have a real hard time with other sites existing and being mentioned here. My site is small, and in no way competes with DTR. I'm not even complaining about that link being deleted, although it's questionable in my mind. I look at it like the link was there, if somebody read one of my posts and wanted to click it, fine. I wasn't saying "Hey, click the link in my sig, I have a forum and we'll answer the question over there instead." I answered stuff here. Again, forums are for helping people. I can help more people here than my own site simply because of the number of people reading posts here. I want to help others, because so many people have helped me over the past seven years on various forums. So then why is it such a big deal to have a link to a separate, smaller forum in my signature? My forum is geared more towards suspension questions, and there is some good information available in FAQ's and other posts. There is information available on my site that you simply cannot get here on DTR. But DTR looks at it like I am taking traffic away from this site, and therefore my signature gets modified. It's the wrong way to handle it. Instead, look at it from a positive point of view... they found the link on DTR, reading posts on DTR. DTR offers a lot more than my site could ever offer, it's not like they are going to quit visiting here. They would visit both. The point is, DTR takes a negative approach to just about everything, and it really shows. Be helpful, don't be selfish. It would be foolish of DTR to think that once a person found this site, they would never want to visit another site again. Every forum has it's strong points, and people visit it for that. I go to one site for diesel stuff, one site for suspension stuff, one site for chit chatting about truck stuff, and so on. DTR is not the final answer to every question. But as I said, this isn't even what got me to this post. I don't care about my signature being modified to remove the link to my forum. What bothers me is that I can't even have a link to my personal website full of pictures and a little bit of helpful info, in my signature here, as a user of DTR. Has the censorship gotten so strict that the only images I can share, unless specifically posted, are going to be in my DTR album? Heck, a user's album is harder to access now than before, so even that information is a little more out of reach. It's like this place is purposely trying to control what people look at. Lighten up. I suggest DTR gets back to it's roots... help people. If you quit making people mad by censoring so much, and start helping people instead, I promise you that your bottom line will increase. Right now, it's like the products are being forced down our throat. Back off, we all know the store is available, we all know you ship quickly and stand behind what you sell. Everyone knows that. Create a new forum and put your latest products for sale in there. People that are associated with DTR could offer up helpful answers to posts in the various forums and also let the person know that DTR sells the product in question, or something that will fix the problem in question, and I promise you that people will react much more positively to that than the current system. The ****-esque censorship is really quite irritating, and it's easy to see that I am not the only one that is bored with it. Sure, you can tell me to take a hike, or put me in a time-out, or ban me altogether. If that is your answer to every person that questions DTR's rules and guidelines, that is unfortunate and I hate to see it because this site could be twice the site it is if the moderation weren't so insanely heavy. I hope you all will take this as constructive criticism and consider some of the points I have brought up. I understand a lot of the rules, but I fail to understand the reasoning behind a few of them, especially when they do more harm to this site than good. Most of all, I hope DTR will consider being more grass-roots and allow this place to function as a forum should function, with information flowing from person to person, unrestricted, and only censored for profanity and other evils. If people can't get their information here, I guarantee you they will go somewhere else, it's only a matter of time.
I do appreciate DTR being a free site, and for doing such a great job at advertising it's existence so that I was able to find it when I started searching for a good Dodge diesel truck forum. I am not a member of TDR because I do not believe that you should be forced to pay to use a site. Donations are one thing, but a forced contribution is morally wrong and I resent that. I came here because there are a ton of members and it's free, however before I noticed the heavy censorship, I would have gladly paid more than $35 a year to help keep the site running. I support helpful sites and enjoy doing so. DTR is a good place and it has a good thing going. There is always room for improvement and I hope that my suggestions and concerns will be looked upon as constructive criticism and positive ideas. It's a great place, let's make it even better.
10-22-2006, 10:28 PM
#2
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VERY, VERY well said. I hope a few people read that very closely. I think that is the EXACT thoughts that alot of the members are having. I too would gladly have paid $35 a year to keep it running if we could keep the moderators off of our backs and simply post up info about our trucks.
10-22-2006, 10:30 PM
#3
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Belton, MO
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I think it's mainly because they can't moderate your site too. They have no way to determine if profanity & other stuff is being used. So, instead of letting some people's links slide, they closed them all off.
10-22-2006, 10:57 PM
#4
Banned
Thread Starter
So by killing all links, how can the site function? There is more to the Internet than DTR, and other links need to be available so that more information can be brought in here. I don't think that killing links is the answer. Of course they cannot monitor all of them in posts, but in signatures, it's easier to do. If that is the reasoning behind not allowing links, it appears to me that DTR is more concerned with it's self rather than with what the users want. We, the users, make this site what it is. DTR set it up, runs it, keeps things working and moving, and I'm not trying to discredit that. I've had a hand in several forums and a lot of major websites, and I can understand that running a place like this would be a full time job, easily. The thing is, when you put the wants of the forum above the wants of the users, you are ultimately shooting yourself in the foot. Without the users, no matter how well the site is run or how good the setup is, it would not exist because it would lose money.
It just seems to me that the user's here don't have a voice and that we are often treated as the "problem," when really we are what makes the site go. I agree with Luken, I think that others feel this way too, and I think nobody says anything because everyone is too scared to speak up. That is unfortunate. Users of a site should not be afraid of the administration. They should work together, hand in hand, to make the site the best that it can be, because it takes both sides to make the site a success.
It just seems to me that the user's here don't have a voice and that we are often treated as the "problem," when really we are what makes the site go. I agree with Luken, I think that others feel this way too, and I think nobody says anything because everyone is too scared to speak up. That is unfortunate. Users of a site should not be afraid of the administration. They should work together, hand in hand, to make the site the best that it can be, because it takes both sides to make the site a success.
10-22-2006, 11:24 PM
#5
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 195
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I have had no problems with the site
The only thought I have ever had cross my mind is that if I were a vendor I would not join and pay for advertisement with a place that has its own store.
Financially speaking that would be a pocket book breaker.
I have bought several things from the DTR store and Larry has been super to deal with, stands behind what he sells, refunds and all. Do I buy everything from the DTR store? No. I bought my gauges from somewhere else, they were cheaper, I bought a boost fooler from Farmboys Diesel, they were cheaper than the DTR store, I bought my smarty from Larry, he was higher than Farmboys Diesel, why you ask? It helps the site, but I am going to help the vendors here also because I know it has to be tuff.
I try to spread the money around.
As far as the Mods, They all seem to be ok, I have only been a member since July, but I have seen nothing that would cause me to leave. If I did, I would leave, plain and simple, would I show my hiney? No. I might send a PM and speak my feelings, but not in public. Have you ever seen a husband/wife fight in public? That is a private thing to do, same as this situation. If you get no satisfaction the move on. Do I visit other sites? heck yes, this is just home.
I love this site and to be honest I frequent it more time a day than I will admit. Simply because I am learning, helping, and the comrodory.
To sum it all up, you can make some of the people happy all the time and all of the people none of the time.
Financially speaking that would be a pocket book breaker.
I have bought several things from the DTR store and Larry has been super to deal with, stands behind what he sells, refunds and all. Do I buy everything from the DTR store? No. I bought my gauges from somewhere else, they were cheaper, I bought a boost fooler from Farmboys Diesel, they were cheaper than the DTR store, I bought my smarty from Larry, he was higher than Farmboys Diesel, why you ask? It helps the site, but I am going to help the vendors here also because I know it has to be tuff.
I try to spread the money around.
As far as the Mods, They all seem to be ok, I have only been a member since July, but I have seen nothing that would cause me to leave. If I did, I would leave, plain and simple, would I show my hiney? No. I might send a PM and speak my feelings, but not in public. Have you ever seen a husband/wife fight in public? That is a private thing to do, same as this situation. If you get no satisfaction the move on. Do I visit other sites? heck yes, this is just home.
I love this site and to be honest I frequent it more time a day than I will admit. Simply because I am learning, helping, and the comrodory.
To sum it all up, you can make some of the people happy all the time and all of the people none of the time.
10-22-2006, 11:27 PM
#6
Registered User
It just seems to me that the user's here don't have a voice and that we are often treated as the "problem," when really we are what makes the site go. I agree with Luken, I think that others feel this way too, and I think nobody says anything because everyone is too scared to speak up. That is unfortunate. Users of a site should not be afraid of the administration. They should work together, hand in hand, to make the site the best that it can be, because it takes both sides to make the site a success.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, well 'm not afraid to speak up even if Lary and Jack are shaking their heads right now!
Its pretty simple really DTR deals with vendors who they can count on! Those vendors who advertise here are held to a higher standard and contracted to do so. Thereby, DTR avoids the blindsided lawsuit for a website that," I found on your DTR site"(even if it is not one of their vendors or links). You see the legal ramifications alone of running this site are tremendous!!!
FYI:
I have checked out your site and found it very helpful with what I was looking for. Maybe you could make some sort or arrangement with Jack and Lary? As they would be the ones to be talking to about this. I'd call them!
Rick
Hmmm, well 'm not afraid to speak up even if Lary and Jack are shaking their heads right now!
Its pretty simple really DTR deals with vendors who they can count on! Those vendors who advertise here are held to a higher standard and contracted to do so. Thereby, DTR avoids the blindsided lawsuit for a website that," I found on your DTR site"(even if it is not one of their vendors or links). You see the legal ramifications alone of running this site are tremendous!!!
FYI:
I have checked out your site and found it very helpful with what I was looking for. Maybe you could make some sort or arrangement with Jack and Lary? As they would be the ones to be talking to about this. I'd call them!
Rick
10-22-2006, 11:27 PM
#7
Your first several paragraphs covered strict moderation of profanity in posts. I think we all understand the reasoning behind that so I won't waste time covering that.
I have every intention to answer all your questions, but I just don't have the time at the moment. I promise to cover each of your points tomorrow but for now I will touch on the one that your post is REALLY all about.
We do not allow advertising links in signatures for the reason that has been stated here time and again. I have vendors who pay for the right to advertise here and it simply isn't fair for me to allow a non paying person the same luxury.
To keep things simple, we remove links in signatures to any site that is not a paid vendor when we find them. As a matter fo fact, I own a Gunshop and the very FIRST link removed was the one to my store.
As a site owner I could easily get away with leaving my own stuff in there, but I hold my OWN feet to the same fire as everyone else. I always have, even back when NOBODY had a custom Avatar except a few Admins, I would NOT allow myself that luxury if you couldn't have one.
Your complaint is that you feel your link is better than the others that got removed so it should be allowed to stay. No thats not what you said, but in the end that is what it comes down to. This is what you are really mad about, all the other stuff is nothing more than whitewash.
I could have left your link alone and gone on removing all the others, sure you would be happy but that wouldn't be fair to all the other guys. I don't have the luxury to pick and choose which link should stay and which should go, heck I don't have the time even if I wanted to.
The ONLY way I have found to be fair is to remove them ALL straight across the board as I see them. Just like the rules state, you can't place an advertising to link anything in your signature except a paid DTR vendor.
How can I possibly be more fair? You don't see the name to my Gunshop in my signature? I am NOT playing favorites, I am just trying to do a tough job as fair as I can for everyone.
You don't seem to grasp the simple concept that a site this size needs revenue to continue to remain free for you. For this I sell advertising and a few performance parts.
If you want to advertise your forum in your signature I will be happy to give you our advertising rates and options. Maybe it will be something you want to do, for my business I decided not to and as such I do NOT try to take what I haven't paid for.
It isn't about WHAT your link is for, it's that you put it there in an attempt to advertise what ever it is you are doing. I expect to get paid for my efforts, just like you do when you work, will you give me your labor for free? I know you won't because you have bills to pay JUST LIKE DTR.
I think you are a good guy you are just a little confused about this issue and I hope this helps you understand your link issue for now, I will take time tomorrow to try and cover the rest of the stuff.
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10-23-2006, 12:32 AM
#9
Banned
Thread Starter
Ramrod (love the name, by the way! haha!), I have discussed things with Larry via PM in the past. And I am not saying all of this as my final goodbye, I'm just trying to get some stuff off of my chest and at the same time, maybe even help the site out in a constructive sort of way. By keeping my thoughts to myself, I'm not doing anything. By bringing this stuff up, the worst thing that can happen is I'll get banned or warned, but at least everything was said and DTR would be a little more mindful that some people do notice the underlying theme here. I'm not trying to "show my hiney," I did this as tastefully as possible.
Runamuk, maybe that's my problem... I don't give a rip about lawsuits anymore. I think the country has made a turn in the right direction and frivilous lawsuits are not as common as they were a few years ago. People are always looking for excuses and the courts are starting to understand that. Legally speaking, I think this site or any other forum is pretty safe from being accused of promoting anything illegal just because one of it's users posts a link that has yet another link to a bad site.
Larry, I appreciate your reply and sorry for my post being so long. I have a problem with making posts much longer than they probably need to be. I also appreciate that you lead by example, even if I personally find some things questionable. It's much easier to swallow that pill if Big Larry does it first. The thing about my post is that it wasn't all about my signature being modded. That is what sent me to your profile to send you a PM, then I saw your last post was in a thread called "why," so I clicked on it and it was kinda right up the same alley. If you read my post as me wanting to be an exception, that is absolutely not the case and I apologize for not being more clear. The reason for my post was to get the wheels turning and possibly make this place cooler, which can be done. I'm not mad about my signature being edited. I didn't even blink an eye when it was modified the first time because it had a link to my forum. I shrugged it off and went about my business. The only reason I am saying anything this time is because it was to a personal site that has pictures, lots of them, of my Dodges, and some technical info that I spent a lot of time on to help other people out. And as I'm sitting here on one of the largest diesel sites on the net, where I see people offering advice to other people every couple of seconds, I failed to see the justification for deleting a link that had nothing to do with advertising a product or service, but only existed to help others. I don't understand where you draw the line on what help is good and what help is bad. It's all good to me.
I don't think that telling me that I can pay to put a helpful link in my signature is really the right answer to the problem, but it's one that I could have predicted. It's all about the money, apparently. If it mattered that much to me, I would pay you so that I could have that link... but it doesn't matter to me. I am not the one losing out. The link was there to help people out. It was removed because nobody is allowed to have a link in their sig except paying vendors, I get that. What I am saying is that I think that policy is not right. You shouldn't have to pay money to DTR to be able to help it's members out. That is what DTR is all about, right?
And you are right, I did not say that my link is better than anybody else's, but I appreciate you putting words in my mouth. I didn't even compare my link to anybody else's so I'm not sure where you got that comparison. I would gladly have a link-less signature from now on if I knew that others would be able to link to their Cardomain page, or whatever site they have their truck photos published on. I might not have made it as clear as I had hoped, but this is not about my link being removed "this time." Oh wait, yeah I did:
It's about the principle behind it. That's it and that's all. If it was a personal issue, I would have complained about it when the first link was deleted, and again when this different link was deleted. The first one, I can understand and probably should have expected that type of behavior from this site, based on the other moderation. But this last one just really makes me wonder what DTR is all about. Why does DTR exist? What is it's mission?
I grasp a lot more than you might think, but I'm not looking at this as a short-term answer to a short-term problem. I look way down the road, always, and I see a pretty serious long-term problem with no answers. I hate to see that because this place is amazing; there are a ton of awesome people here and everybody seems to get along really well.
If somebody cusses, edit it and PM them. If somebody posts a link to a questionable site, edit it and PM them. If somebody harrasses another member, edit it and PM them. If somebody shows a picture to share information with others, what is the harm in that? If somebody wants to put a link to their CarDomain page in their signature, what is the harm in that? If somebody wants to put a link to their personal site in their signature, what is the harm in that? If DTR is so concerned about what is on those links, then make signature changes with the URL code be approved before being posted.
I absolutely understand that DTR needs to make money. You are kidding yourself if you think I don't get that. DTR could make more money if it wanted to, I can see that all the way from the outside. It's being held back because of the policies and the way it advertises it's own products and services.
Runamuk, maybe that's my problem... I don't give a rip about lawsuits anymore. I think the country has made a turn in the right direction and frivilous lawsuits are not as common as they were a few years ago. People are always looking for excuses and the courts are starting to understand that. Legally speaking, I think this site or any other forum is pretty safe from being accused of promoting anything illegal just because one of it's users posts a link that has yet another link to a bad site.
Larry, I appreciate your reply and sorry for my post being so long. I have a problem with making posts much longer than they probably need to be. I also appreciate that you lead by example, even if I personally find some things questionable. It's much easier to swallow that pill if Big Larry does it first. The thing about my post is that it wasn't all about my signature being modded. That is what sent me to your profile to send you a PM, then I saw your last post was in a thread called "why," so I clicked on it and it was kinda right up the same alley. If you read my post as me wanting to be an exception, that is absolutely not the case and I apologize for not being more clear. The reason for my post was to get the wheels turning and possibly make this place cooler, which can be done. I'm not mad about my signature being edited. I didn't even blink an eye when it was modified the first time because it had a link to my forum. I shrugged it off and went about my business. The only reason I am saying anything this time is because it was to a personal site that has pictures, lots of them, of my Dodges, and some technical info that I spent a lot of time on to help other people out. And as I'm sitting here on one of the largest diesel sites on the net, where I see people offering advice to other people every couple of seconds, I failed to see the justification for deleting a link that had nothing to do with advertising a product or service, but only existed to help others. I don't understand where you draw the line on what help is good and what help is bad. It's all good to me.
I don't think that telling me that I can pay to put a helpful link in my signature is really the right answer to the problem, but it's one that I could have predicted. It's all about the money, apparently. If it mattered that much to me, I would pay you so that I could have that link... but it doesn't matter to me. I am not the one losing out. The link was there to help people out. It was removed because nobody is allowed to have a link in their sig except paying vendors, I get that. What I am saying is that I think that policy is not right. You shouldn't have to pay money to DTR to be able to help it's members out. That is what DTR is all about, right?
And you are right, I did not say that my link is better than anybody else's, but I appreciate you putting words in my mouth. I didn't even compare my link to anybody else's so I'm not sure where you got that comparison. I would gladly have a link-less signature from now on if I knew that others would be able to link to their Cardomain page, or whatever site they have their truck photos published on. I might not have made it as clear as I had hoped, but this is not about my link being removed "this time." Oh wait, yeah I did:
I don't care about my signature being modified to remove the link to my forum.
I grasp a lot more than you might think, but I'm not looking at this as a short-term answer to a short-term problem. I look way down the road, always, and I see a pretty serious long-term problem with no answers. I hate to see that because this place is amazing; there are a ton of awesome people here and everybody seems to get along really well.
If somebody cusses, edit it and PM them. If somebody posts a link to a questionable site, edit it and PM them. If somebody harrasses another member, edit it and PM them. If somebody shows a picture to share information with others, what is the harm in that? If somebody wants to put a link to their CarDomain page in their signature, what is the harm in that? If somebody wants to put a link to their personal site in their signature, what is the harm in that? If DTR is so concerned about what is on those links, then make signature changes with the URL code be approved before being posted.
I absolutely understand that DTR needs to make money. You are kidding yourself if you think I don't get that. DTR could make more money if it wanted to, I can see that all the way from the outside. It's being held back because of the policies and the way it advertises it's own products and services.
10-23-2006, 12:46 AM
#10
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Yep.
I completely agree with that.
I absolutely understand that DTR needs to make money. You are kidding yourself if you think I don't get that. DTR could make more money if it wanted to, I can see that all the way from the outside. It's being held back because of the policies and the way it advertises it's own products and services.
10-23-2006, 05:10 AM
#11
Chapter President
This has to be one of the most useless threads I have ever seen here. 
DTR does exactly what it was designed to do.....educates people about their Dodge Cummins trucks and enables them to save money on repairs and upgrades. This site has saved me and others I know hundreds of dollars on unneeded repairs and tips on how to do it myself and save money.
If anyone wants to go to sites that allow profanity and links to things "you" like, there are plenty of them out there. This one just happens to be "privately" owned and doesn't allow that. When it got to the point that there was too many political and religious discussions, and I don't disagree with discussing either one, Jack and Lary set up another site just for that purpose. They didn't have to, they could have just deleted all of those threads and gone on BAU.
I have never "paid" to belong to any site or forum, and I never will. I have "donated" to DTR in the past and will again in the future because I know it does it's best to stay focused on the intent of the site.
As far as deleting links to unpaid advertising, that is their policy and have every right to do so. I know that if I was paying for ads and they were letting someone else in for free, I'd be PO'd. And, as far as The Store competing with vendors....I would guess that they are getting the merchandise from their vendors and have their blessing.
And I'm here posting.....after my opening sentance.
DTR does exactly what it was designed to do.....educates people about their Dodge Cummins trucks and enables them to save money on repairs and upgrades. This site has saved me and others I know hundreds of dollars on unneeded repairs and tips on how to do it myself and save money.
If anyone wants to go to sites that allow profanity and links to things "you" like, there are plenty of them out there. This one just happens to be "privately" owned and doesn't allow that. When it got to the point that there was too many political and religious discussions, and I don't disagree with discussing either one, Jack and Lary set up another site just for that purpose. They didn't have to, they could have just deleted all of those threads and gone on BAU.
I have never "paid" to belong to any site or forum, and I never will. I have "donated" to DTR in the past and will again in the future because I know it does it's best to stay focused on the intent of the site.
As far as deleting links to unpaid advertising, that is their policy and have every right to do so. I know that if I was paying for ads and they were letting someone else in for free, I'd be PO'd. And, as far as The Store competing with vendors....I would guess that they are getting the merchandise from their vendors and have their blessing.
And I'm here posting.....after my opening sentance.
10-23-2006, 05:43 AM
#13
Chapter President
10-23-2006, 07:57 AM
#14
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
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10-23-2006, 08:04 AM
#15
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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This has to be one of the most useless threads I have ever seen here.
DTR does exactly what it was designed to do.....educates people about their Dodge Cummins trucks and enables them to save money on repairs and upgrades. This site has saved me and others I know hundreds of dollars on unneeded repairs and tips on how to do it myself and save money.
If anyone wants to go to sites that allow profanity and links to things "you" like, there are plenty of them out there. This one just happens to be "privately" owned and doesn't allow that. When it got to the point that there was too many political and religious discussions, and I don't disagree with discussing either one, Jack and Lary set up another site just for that purpose. They didn't have to, they could have just deleted all of those threads and gone on BAU.
I have never "paid" to belong to any site or forum, and I never will. I have "donated" to DTR in the past and will again in the future because I know it does it's best to stay focused on the intent of the site.
As far as deleting links to unpaid advertising, that is their policy and have every right to do so. I know that if I was paying for ads and they were letting someone else in for free, I'd be PO'd. And, as far as The Store competing with vendors....I would guess that they are getting the merchandise from their vendors and have their blessing.
And I'm here posting.....after my opening sentance.
DTR does exactly what it was designed to do.....educates people about their Dodge Cummins trucks and enables them to save money on repairs and upgrades. This site has saved me and others I know hundreds of dollars on unneeded repairs and tips on how to do it myself and save money.
If anyone wants to go to sites that allow profanity and links to things "you" like, there are plenty of them out there. This one just happens to be "privately" owned and doesn't allow that. When it got to the point that there was too many political and religious discussions, and I don't disagree with discussing either one, Jack and Lary set up another site just for that purpose. They didn't have to, they could have just deleted all of those threads and gone on BAU.
I have never "paid" to belong to any site or forum, and I never will. I have "donated" to DTR in the past and will again in the future because I know it does it's best to stay focused on the intent of the site.
As far as deleting links to unpaid advertising, that is their policy and have every right to do so. I know that if I was paying for ads and they were letting someone else in for free, I'd be PO'd. And, as far as The Store competing with vendors....I would guess that they are getting the merchandise from their vendors and have their blessing.
And I'm here posting.....after my opening sentance.
And people post links to stuff all the time without them getting removed, it all depnds on how it is done. There is some stuff on CummisForum that is linked to all the time for 12v guys with no problems, because they have pics that guys on here want to see. I regularrly post links to them, there are also a lot of links to Stamey's(a member here) personal site posted because he has a wealth of info on the 53 block...
That has to be my longest post
