Twins with stock Hx35
12-07-2005, 10:58 PM
#31
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600 megawatts,
When you say intercooled and aftercooled, do you mean run a intercooler between the turbos, so the pressure comes from the big one, thru a cooler, then into the little one, then thru another cooler, then into the engine?
tim.
When you say intercooled and aftercooled, do you mean run a intercooler between the turbos, so the pressure comes from the big one, thru a cooler, then into the little one, then thru another cooler, then into the engine?
tim.
12-07-2005, 11:02 PM
#32
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I've often thought that plumbing the "cold" pipe between turbos using large copper piping would serve as a modest intercooler and that would help overall density ratio a tiny bit.
Sure would be nice to have a REAL intercool between stages.
The only person I'm aware of that did it was BD power on their race truck. Christian Roth's truck had twins with both intercooling and aftercooling.
jh
Sure would be nice to have a REAL intercool between stages.
The only person I'm aware of that did it was BD power on their race truck. Christian Roth's truck had twins with both intercooling and aftercooling.
jh
12-08-2005, 12:00 AM
#33
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What about a small water to air setup. Being on the side with all the heater hoses....wouldnt that be a easy tap? And isnt the charge air hotter than 200*? OR make a reserve with a small pump that circulates water/coolant. OR make a setup that uses the A/C...just throwing ideas out there.....might be slightly easier than piping in another cooler to the fnt of the truck.
I plan on having an Aftermarket IAT sensor to see changes in temp and how effecent my intake and such are. (Heck even taping into my current IAT would be kinda fun!! haha)
I just have to settle on a turbo(s)
I plan on having an Aftermarket IAT sensor to see changes in temp and how effecent my intake and such are. (Heck even taping into my current IAT would be kinda fun!! haha)
I just have to settle on a turbo(s)
12-08-2005, 09:45 AM
#34
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Diesel Dan,
I've thought about using a A/C unit to cool the air charge down on gasser before, but was turned away from the idea. I figured that the cool air would probably net a +20hp, but then you are draining about 20hp off your crank to turn the A/C pump, at least on a gasser. Diesel might be a different story though. But i'm also the guy that tryed to use a small pulley on a smog pump for a "supercharger on 2.8L chev, not enough air, needed 2 of them
.
tim.
I've thought about using a A/C unit to cool the air charge down on gasser before, but was turned away from the idea. I figured that the cool air would probably net a +20hp, but then you are draining about 20hp off your crank to turn the A/C pump, at least on a gasser. Diesel might be a different story though. But i'm also the guy that tryed to use a small pulley on a smog pump for a "supercharger on 2.8L chev, not enough air, needed 2 of them
.tim.
12-08-2005, 09:54 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by HOHN
Now, that's funny right there. I guess reading every twins post you can find is now called "research." Guess I don't need to actually buy anything, eh..
Anyway, you can easily calculate the "paper" boost that a set of twins will make by looking at pressure ratios. Now, this ignores inefficiency, but it will give you a "max" value.
Say you have twins with a '35 and HT3B. You want to run both at 21psi so they're in the heart of the map.
What this means is that you are no longer feeding the '35 with just 14.7psi of atmospheric air pressure, you are feeding it (14.7+21psi) 35.7psi.
Now, you need to calculate the pressure ratio for your '35. At 21psi boost, you have (21+14.7) psia. Thus, you are turning 14.7psia into 35.7psia. So your pressure ratio is 35.7/14.7, or 2.43.
So your top charger is operating at a pressure ratio PR of 2.43. That means that when you feed it 35.7psia instead of 14.7psia, you will have (2.43*35.7)= 86.7psi absolute. Subtract your 14.7psi to convert to guage pressure, and you have 72psig.
So, running a big charger and small charger both at 21psi produces 72psi boost at discharge. Now this is just a "paper" value, and your real world value will fall below this by some amount.....
jh
Anyway, you can easily calculate the "paper" boost that a set of twins will make by looking at pressure ratios. Now, this ignores inefficiency, but it will give you a "max" value.
Say you have twins with a '35 and HT3B. You want to run both at 21psi so they're in the heart of the map.
What this means is that you are no longer feeding the '35 with just 14.7psi of atmospheric air pressure, you are feeding it (14.7+21psi) 35.7psi.
Now, you need to calculate the pressure ratio for your '35. At 21psi boost, you have (21+14.7) psia. Thus, you are turning 14.7psia into 35.7psia. So your pressure ratio is 35.7/14.7, or 2.43.
So your top charger is operating at a pressure ratio PR of 2.43. That means that when you feed it 35.7psia instead of 14.7psia, you will have (2.43*35.7)= 86.7psi absolute. Subtract your 14.7psi to convert to guage pressure, and you have 72psig.
So, running a big charger and small charger both at 21psi produces 72psi boost at discharge. Now this is just a "paper" value, and your real world value will fall below this by some amount.....
jh
COME ON HOHN!! You know that there is more than 1 step to research and I must say YOU'RE GOOD! I've done much reading on compounds and still don't understand'em like you. I'm more ape like
and better understand things such as these when I see touch feel and taste them, then I can better understand them, until one of your most informative posts such as the one above comes along to help like me!! In a nut shell thanks for be'in a member!!!!!
12-08-2005, 10:50 AM
#36
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How much of a pain is it to get to the oil filter, etc for maintenance once you have twins? Can you buy a bracket to support the second turbo or is it a fab job? I have a stick, TIG, and MIG welder so the fab part shouldn't be to bad.
I have two different ways to run twins now, which way is better? (meaning the way they are piped together)
Is the 5" exhaust really important with twins? Where do you get the new down pipe?
I have two different ways to run twins now, which way is better? (meaning the way they are piped together)
Is the 5" exhaust really important with twins? Where do you get the new down pipe?
12-08-2005, 09:46 PM
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Well...the HT3B has a 5" outlet....sooo....why reduce to 4"......man...i wasnt ready for the size of this thing....its big. AND has a bent shaft, dinged up exhaust blade and intake blades.......in need of a rebuild....how much for kits ya figure? AND is it hard to rebuild? Dont think there is much to it.......
12-09-2005, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by WideOpenThrottl
Diesel Dan,
I've thought about using a A/C unit to cool the air charge down on gasser before, but was turned away from the idea. I figured that the cool air would probably net a +20hp, but then you are draining about 20hp off your crank to turn the A/C pump, at least on a gasser. Diesel might be a different story though. But i'm also the guy that tryed to use a small pulley on a smog pump for a "supercharger on 2.8L chev, not enough air, needed 2 of them .
tim.
I've thought about using a A/C unit to cool the air charge down on gasser before, but was turned away from the idea. I figured that the cool air would probably net a +20hp, but then you are draining about 20hp off your crank to turn the A/C pump, at least on a gasser. Diesel might be a different story though. But i'm also the guy that tryed to use a small pulley on a smog pump for a "supercharger on 2.8L chev, not enough air, needed 2 of them
.tim.
That could work, if you put an A/C evaporator in the air stream, and plumbed it into some 3 way solenoid valves teed into your stock A/C system, you could have A/C and then flip a switch and it diverts the refrigerant down to the intake air cooler, thus cooling the air.
12-09-2005, 04:47 PM
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Quit with this nonsence. You guys have me thinking now 
It wont be anytime soon, but if i eventually get a full built tranny, and feel the need for much more fuel, i will stud the head(at a minimum), and do the hx35/ht3b deal. Sounds like it would hold well up to anything id ever want. 
Especially for the price.
Eric
It wont be anytime soon, but if i eventually get a full built tranny, and feel the need for much more fuel, i will stud the head(at a minimum), and do the hx35/ht3b deal. Sounds like it would hold well up to anything id ever want. Especially for the price.Eric
12-09-2005, 05:29 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by LanceD
That could work, if you put an A/C evaporator in the air stream, and plumbed it into some 3 way solenoid valves teed into your stock A/C system, you could have A/C and then flip a switch and it diverts the refrigerant down to the intake air cooler, thus cooling the air.
12-09-2005, 09:43 PM
#43
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Id say go if there are any other guys, expert in twins, keep up the good ideas...
-i just wanted to jump in here and ask if fuel economy will be better or worse(due to the higher boost) (meaning normal driving)
-how about the EGT's ??!! now i see 1500* when floored, is it supposed to drop with this Hx35/ht3b setup? Is that the twins Job as well?
-and how is the external waste gate connected? with a stock maniful?
-i just wanted to jump in here and ask if fuel economy will be better or worse(due to the higher boost) (meaning normal driving)
-how about the EGT's ??!! now i see 1500* when floored, is it supposed to drop with this Hx35/ht3b setup? Is that the twins Job as well?
-and how is the external waste gate connected? with a stock maniful?
12-10-2005, 08:59 PM
#45
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Im gonna throw my vote for a HX35/12 or 14 married to a S400 little faster spool hopefully than the HT3b but the downside will be ??????
??????