I talked to Don at ats today he stated that their tc only weighed four pound heavier than the stock converter I really dought that the weight difference is an issue. How many flex plates that broke were with the dtt trans as compared to other trans builders according to Don has not seen one on any of his transmissions.

 

As far as I know of, only one DTT has broke, and it was within the last week on a 750+hp truck.

 

i've been heavily thinking about a transgo or a full VB ugrade. however, the stock cover is prone to ballooning. what does the ballooing affect (the lock up clutch can't seal right, but otherwise)...? does it bend or break the flexplate or force the wrong type of wear on bearing/clutches?<br><br>Tom

 

As far as I understand the ballooning of a TC comes from the internal pressure that is caused by the pump and by the centrifugal force. I think that the ballooning is not an issue with the rpms we are running on the diesel. ( less than 4K)<br>The warping of the stock TC cover IMHO comes from the fact that the lugs do form a kind of lever that will bend the cover when you use torque. <br>On the DTT TC I bought the lugs were modified to have a greater area where the force is induced in the cover. <br><br>Ballooning and warping of the TC will lead to an imperfect seal of the TC lockup clutch and therefore to a lower apply pressure ot the clutch and therefore slippage. Especially bad news on this slippage is that during the slip in a warped state the wear will cause a wavelike surface in the relaxed state and therefore no seal anymore. Also when warped and slippink it will build lots of heat in a very small area of the TC. So ATF breakdown and contamination with burnt clutch material will happen and contaminate the coolers and will flow from the coolers to the bearings and gears of the tranny. This is bad news because that stuff is basically abrasive material. <br><br>Flexplate breaking is usually caused by a misalignment of the tranny to the crankshaft (on european cars). Another cause can be engine harmonics. ( encountered them sometimes after problems with the fuel inj. or ignition on some cars)<br><br>Just throwing in my 2cents<br><br>AlpineRAM

 

alright, thanks alpine. i have a converter UNlock/stock switch. i could run around with the tcc unlocked, but that'll waste fuel and create heat. i want to step up to some higher injectors than i just bought (215's).<br><br>Tom

 

98rammer:<br>I think that basically there are some good vendors of automatic trannies out there, and that the stock stuff really is inadequate for the stock engine, let alone a bombed one. <br>I think that there are some different philosophies: One like ATS who want to stay locked up all the time and another like DTT who wants to stay unlocked under severe load and below certain speeds. In my opinion both versions will have their up and downsides. I decided for DTT because I got really great phone support from Bill K before I was a customer. ( Since I did not call ATS or any other vendor for infos I can not comment on their behaviour) <br>Another point was that DTT offered experience in exporting the stuff to Europe. (Might be a little less concerning to you than to me )<br>Since I have never driven an ATS equipped truck here comes my, let's say at least wildly guessing, opinion. For diagnostics purposes I had mounted a lockup switch on my stock tranny. When accellerating hard the shifts were very firm ( when locked up) but manageable. In the rain when accelerating mildly the shifts were too hard for my taste. I did not drive in winter with the lockup switch, but I imagined this being quite bad. ( Going around some nice bend on an icy road and some harsh shift can make the bodyshops day- or even the gravediggers day if you re in the mountains) <br>DISCLAIMER: I did not drive an ATS truck and just guessed about the behaviour! <br>When I got my stuff from DTT I installed it myself with some help over the phone and some e-mails. It worked out great. I think that the DTT 89% TC is offering such good fluid coupling that the lack of lockup in the lower gears is no disadvantage at all. I do feel less vibrations in the drivetrain when going in manual 2nd than with the lockup switch. <br>When flooring it the engine stays between 2500 and 2900 rpm most of the time so I have the maximum power output and the TC converts this to the maximum torque on the rear wheels ( whose tires do hate it- screams of pain and help signs all over the road)<br>I have driven about 70.000 km ( about 43K miles) with my setup and it still works perfectly. There is no sludge and no burnt fluid. The only problem I had was that I had ommitted tighening the locknut of the front band adjuster- my fault.<br><br>So my recommendation is: Try to drive a truck of each competitor ( if possible with the power level you want to go and this equal on all trucks) and then go with what suits you best. Personally I can only attest top notch quality and customer support to DTT. Their tranny is perfect for my needs. I suggest that you go with a full kit or a complete tranny from a reputated company to have one guy to blame when anything goes wrong. I think that choosing a tranny has lots to do with the intended use and the intended power levels of your truck. Be honest in explaining what you want, and bite the bullet if the vendor tells you to take size XXL instead of L. They do know their stuff. If you tell them you want to stay at, say 300 hp and then go up to 500 do not blame the vendor if anything breaks. Do not be surprised when the tranny will upshift and keep you in the too low rpm range all the time or downshift and insert your truck into the ricers fartcan. The automatic tranny is governed by two inputs: vehicle speed and the position of the accelerator pedal. For each position of the pedal it assumes a certain torque. So if you double hp and you need just half the throttle the tranny will be confused. <br><br>Well I am off my soapbox for now.... ;D<br><br>AlpineRAM<br><br>ps: sorry for the loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon g post

 

rest easy alpine

i guess i should have said it...i've already decided to get a DTT tranny from a certain dealer. however, i don't have the $3000+ for the full transmission right now. after college i'll have it rebuilt asap. i'm just trying to get away with more power for a couple hundred $ worth of tranny upgrades. i've driven a DTT truck and ridden in another and loved them. i've never even seen an ATS truck in the northeast so i haven't gotten a chance to ride in or drive one. is upgrading the valve body going to ruin the converter with some engine upgrades?

i have questions though...locked shifting is bad on the drivetrain. if the converter is locked, and you have smooth shifts, then you'd be slipping the clutches for a while until they grab again. i'm not saying ATS is bad (don't start a war here!)- i think that they have a great idea with the triple disk. that's just something i've wondered about ???

...I know, you've gotta pay if you wanna play... 8)
Tom

 

oh yeah, i've also turned up the line pressure screw 3 turns and the light throttle later-shifting screw about 1 1/2 turns to help out.

 

When I wrote about firm but manageable shifts I meant that in this situation where you go WOT you expect harsh things to happen.<br>I think that you can ask Bill K about raising line pressure a bit more after checking your tranny with a pressure gauge to assure that there is no leakage somewhere. If you get 2nd gear starts or so you can use the voltage regulator that splices into the governor pressure sensor feed line to fool the tranny about the pressures a bit. <br>Maybe you could order just a VB and get away for some time before the major rebuild. Personally I'd do my install again without hesitation. It was work for about 1.5 days. ( Not having the proper tools etc)This was the master kit, TC, VB and some other stuff.<br><br><br>Good luck!<br><br>AlpineRAM

 

when I talked to ats the other day I asked about the shifting lock to lock Don stated that the allison trannys have done it for years and that ford transmissions also shift locked ??? ??? I myself do not know but I beleave Don he is very knowlegeable about these trannys. Also He or anyone at ats will not slam any other vendor which says a lot for them because the other vendors I have talked to have all slammed them.

 

Its funny how everyone says ATS's strategy is to lock it. For most of my driving I use the stock lockup system. Just let the PCM do its thing. When I am towing I set it to hold lockup down to 25 mph for brakeing. Only time I really lock it up is when I am racing.

Thats the nice thing about it. Its there is I want it.

 

StakeMan: <br>I do not think that it's surprising that everybody does assume that ATS wants to shift locked.<br>When I was deciding for my tranny all I read on the ATS website and in the e-mails from guys running ATS was something like &quot;really crisp locked shifts&quot; , &quot;transfers 100% of the power all the time because you stay in lockup through the gears&quot; and so on. <br><br>After this information I assumed that the ATS policy is to have the TC locked up as much as possible. <br>If it's for pulling I agree with locking up in 2nd gear for engine braking and for keeping the temperatures down. For racing I think my truck accelerates better with the TC unlocked. <br><br>AlpineRAM

 

[quote author=AlpineRAM link=board=7;threadid=12310;start=60#119390 date=1048406200]
For racing I think my truck accelerates better with the TC unlocked.

AlpineRAM
[/quote]

It is physically impossible for your truck accelerate faster out of lockup than in lockup....the only factor is that the motor comes up to it's &quot;power&quot; range quicker (cause of the torque converter slipping aka: fluid coupling) which feels like it's accelerating faster. But if you had two identical trucks side by side in their &quot;power band&quot; the truck with the torque converter LOCKED will win every time over the one unlocked.

 

[quote author=AlpineRAM link=board=7;threadid=12310;start=60#119390 date=1048406200]<br>StakeMan: <br>I do not think that it's surprising that everybody does assume that ATS wants to shift locked.<br><br>After this information I assumed that the ATS policy is to have the TC locked up as much as possible. <br>[/quote]<br><br>true, i would allow for normal operation of the pcm lock up if i had a triple lock converter, however, you're right. i see a lot of responses where people like to lock it up at 30mph which i would see as lugging the motor under lighter throttle conditions. or is the valve body set up so you can't lug the motor if you lock it up at 30mph (&quot;hangs&quot; in 2nd gear or something like that?) <br><br>i always found it stupid how (stock) i could run the motor at lock up in OD down to 45mph ~1200rpms. it's lugging the motor, doesn't d/c understand that?<br><br>Tom

 

PSYCHORAM,<br><br>Your statement of &quot;if you had two identical trucks side by side in their &quot;power band&quot; the truck with the torque converter LOCKED will win every time over the one unlocked,&quot; is correct. But in a drag race this is not the situation being utilized. The trucks have to go from a dead stop and accelerate into the powerband and continue shifting through the gears. During this time the truck that gets into the powerband faster and stays there could be the winner. There are LOTS of variables that will influence which is best. I know of a few sub 13 second racers that have found their trucks to be faster by allowing the truck to accelerate unlocked through the gears and lockup as DC programing is set rather than running locked right out of the hole.<br><br>Doug<br><br>