Smarty Dyno results on a bone stock truck.
04-24-2006, 05:18 AM
#31
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Wastegate.
The CaTCHER softwares work with the stock fuelling strategy.
Increase the fuel and read the MAP in real time.
That means, increase fuel, did the MAP value increase?
1) Yes, more fuel.
2) No, keep the fuel the same level that achieved the last increase in boost.
If the wategate is "stock" on a stock truck....
Marco
Increase the fuel and read the MAP in real time.
That means, increase fuel, did the MAP value increase?
1) Yes, more fuel.
2) No, keep the fuel the same level that achieved the last increase in boost.
If the wategate is "stock" on a stock truck....
Marco
04-24-2006, 05:32 AM
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I did forget to add to my post that upon the addition of the Smarty, I blocked the WG and I hit a max boost of 31. Truck feels way faster that what the dyno reported.
04-24-2006, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph4tty
Torque loss? Sure doesn't make sense to me. What kind of dyno is the humbler?
04-24-2006, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike D
Let me start of by saying sorry for the confussion, you know how the internet can cross wires in a conversation.
The trans has nothing to do with the dyno numbers. I don't expect TigerRag to know this as he has a six speed. I don't care if you have a DTT or Goerend or Suncoast, once the truck is in lockup it doesn't matter, the converter is locked. If you dyno a stock truck, you have to start the dyno run at about 70 mph so it won't kick out of lock up, this was done.
The trans has nothing to do with the dyno numbers. I don't expect TigerRag to know this as he has a six speed. I don't care if you have a DTT or Goerend or Suncoast, once the truck is in lockup it doesn't matter, the converter is locked. If you dyno a stock truck, you have to start the dyno run at about 70 mph so it won't kick out of lock up, this was done.
70mph is either 2000rpm with a tall axle, or 2300rpm with the shorter one.
Either way, you're not capturing the 1300-1900rpm power gains that Smarty adds.
Moreover, Smarty doesn't really add much peak power in all cases. It just takes the "hump" of a tq curve and makes it more into a plateau, adding a lot more "area under the curve", even if peak numbers change little or not at all.
The fact that this can be done AND often add up to 60hp to the peak value is quite impressive, imo...
jh
04-24-2006, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by HOHN
The fact that this can be done AND often add up to 60hp to the peak value is quite impressive, imo...
jh
jh
I should have removed the programming on my truck to see what the impact of the Smarty was on my hp/tq #'s. There were just too many trucks waiting on this dyno day to make too many changes though.
04-24-2006, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike D
I think everyone is fixated on the hp number. The truck gained 100 FTlbs of torque. Usually hp is about half of the torque reading, so I don't know why it only gained 8 hp????
TQ * RPM /5252 = HP
since our trucks never see 5252rpm (mine doesn't anyway) and most of the time our power band can stretch to about 2700, which is just over half 5252, we typically see that our peak HP number is about half the torque we make at that rpm. I'm not very good at explaining things.
Basically the smarty in this case added 100ft/lbs but at a lower rpm than where the peak HP was delivered. It only increased the higher rpm tq gain by maybe 15 to 20 ft/lbs and therefore you found an increase of 8 hp. But at the lower rpms there was one hell of a boost. that lower rpm 100ft/lbs is one hell of a boost in my opinion and goes right along with what each smarty owner has always said. It gives big power right off the line, great towing power and a lot of SOP gain/responsiveness.
don't get caught up in the peak numbers. let's see the graph.
HOHN had an excellent point, I didn't even consider at first. if you didn't start taking readings until after 70, then you really missed out on the lower rpm range, and that is where the smarty shines, as I understand.
04-24-2006, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Tiger Rag
Do we actually have evidence of this anywhere other than the manufacturers claim? Again, don't get me wrong this is a great product and I LOVE mine, but I've yet to see any performance product I own, give what it says it will give on power. By the way, I was prepared for not much if any power gains on my truck on the dyno by the Smarty, I had heard it could actually lower hp #'s on more modded trucks. Either way, my truck is much, much better with the Smarty vs without it.
I should have removed the programming on my truck to see what the impact of the Smarty was on my hp/tq #'s. There were just too many trucks waiting on this dyno day to make too many changes though.
I should have removed the programming on my truck to see what the impact of the Smarty was on my hp/tq #'s. There were just too many trucks waiting on this dyno day to make too many changes though.
For example, I dynoed 390hp/914lb-ft with Just an EZ and DD2s. The EZ is rated 65hp, the DD2s at 90hp (in an HO). Thus, we're talking 155hp increase.
Stock HO truck dynoes about 210hp at the wheels, so we "should" have 210+155= 365hp, right?
But this is wrong. For one thing, the EZ adds 65hp to "best gain", NOT to peak HP! Peak is usually about 40hp. Injectors are rated peak HP, so now we're back to 345hp for what this combo "should" be, correct?
Then I dyno 390hp compared to the 345hp that it "should be". NOw we look into the dyno and realize that it was in Ft Collins CO on Dynojet, and an inaccurately high correction was used for altitude.
Ironically enough, Member RustyJC has an EZ and DD2s, and his truck dynoed 347hp! That's REALLY close to the 345hp we "predict" for the combo. I'd take Rusty's dyno results to the bank.
So even on a more conservative dyno, the products deliver the HP they claim (you just have to know what they are claiming
)Dyno variance sucks. A DJ248 is a great dyno, but corrected numbers with it can be fishy. I'd rather have the raw data, but most dynos don't give you that (at least at the ricer shop I went to), because it looks "low", and that doesn't sell speed parts......
jh
04-26-2006, 07:05 AM
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Wastegate!
Sorry guys, I'm almost sure that this dyno result is due to the stock wastegate.
If the WG is open by 20 Psi then the CaTCHER SW's will NOT increase the fuelling further. That's what you get, the power of 20 Psi... That means that the potential power gain is taken advantage of only partialy. Smarty can be used on a completly stock truck but to see full gain of it the WG needs to be blocked/turnbuckle... whatever to prevent it from opening too soon.
Makes sense?
Marco
If the WG is open by 20 Psi then the CaTCHER SW's will NOT increase the fuelling further. That's what you get, the power of 20 Psi... That means that the potential power gain is taken advantage of only partialy. Smarty can be used on a completly stock truck but to see full gain of it the WG needs to be blocked/turnbuckle... whatever to prevent it from opening too soon.
Makes sense?
Marco
04-26-2006, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Marco
Sorry guys, I'm almost sure that this dyno result is due to the stock wastegate.
If the WG is open by 20 Psi then the CaTCHER SW's will NOT increase the fuelling further. That's what you get, the power of 20 Psi... That means that the potential power gain is taken advantage of only partialy. Smarty can be used on a completly stock truck but to see full gain of it the WG needs to be blocked/turnbuckle... whatever to prevent it from opening too soon.
Makes sense?
Marco
If the WG is open by 20 Psi then the CaTCHER SW's will NOT increase the fuelling further. That's what you get, the power of 20 Psi... That means that the potential power gain is taken advantage of only partialy. Smarty can be used on a completly stock truck but to see full gain of it the WG needs to be blocked/turnbuckle... whatever to prevent it from opening too soon.
Makes sense?
Marco
04-26-2006, 08:36 AM
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I spoke with Bob Wagner on Monday about the mods on my truck and his thoughts on a boost elbow. Needless to say a boost elbow is on it's way. Helps with the EGT's and like Marco said "to gain full potential from your Smarty".
04-26-2006, 10:08 AM
#43
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Something else to think about, since i have run a Smarty.
Just because at less than 100% throttle the truck runs way better than stock, does not mean you will see a larger peak gain. On a dyno, especially a dynojet, if you fuel earlier, but not more the torque will rise ver fast. You can overfuel a truck on some dynos just to get a big torque number.
On a loaded dyno with a controlled acceleration you may see more of a gain because you can make sure the truck is stabilized and fully boosted. On an acceleration run the truck just runs the WOT fuel map. From my understanding is that the Smarty does some at WOT, but is really meant for a better pedal feel and spool up at lighter throttle positions.
Also I see a lot of "bottom end" comments. Do not confuse bottom end as touchy throttle. I know some of you don't, but some of you do. It is a matter of interpretation. If you drive an EZ around town normal the gains appear to be minimal, because they are more geared for the heavy throttle applications.
Don't get me wrong I think the Smarty runs well and increases drivability which I think is the intent. I do not think it is a big power adder. I bet if you look at the curve it makes more than 8hp best gain, but not peak gain. Look at some of the differences between stock and the Smarty across the rpm band. At some point it probably makes considerably more than stock, just not peak to peak.
Quad
Just because at less than 100% throttle the truck runs way better than stock, does not mean you will see a larger peak gain. On a dyno, especially a dynojet, if you fuel earlier, but not more the torque will rise ver fast. You can overfuel a truck on some dynos just to get a big torque number.
On a loaded dyno with a controlled acceleration you may see more of a gain because you can make sure the truck is stabilized and fully boosted. On an acceleration run the truck just runs the WOT fuel map. From my understanding is that the Smarty does some at WOT, but is really meant for a better pedal feel and spool up at lighter throttle positions.
Also I see a lot of "bottom end" comments. Do not confuse bottom end as touchy throttle. I know some of you don't, but some of you do. It is a matter of interpretation. If you drive an EZ around town normal the gains appear to be minimal, because they are more geared for the heavy throttle applications.
Don't get me wrong I think the Smarty runs well and increases drivability which I think is the intent. I do not think it is a big power adder. I bet if you look at the curve it makes more than 8hp best gain, but not peak gain. Look at some of the differences between stock and the Smarty across the rpm band. At some point it probably makes considerably more than stock, just not peak to peak.
Quad
04-26-2006, 10:17 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by qzilla
Something else to think about, since i have run a Smarty.
Just because at less than 100% throttle the truck runs way better than stock, does not mean you will see a larger peak gain. On a dyno, especially a dynojet, if you fuel earlier, but not more the torque will rise ver fast. You can overfuel a truck on some dynos just to get a big torque number.
On a loaded dyno with a controlled acceleration you may see more of a gain because you can make sure the truck is stabilized and fully boosted. On an acceleration run the truck just runs the WOT fuel map. From my understanding is that the Smarty does some at WOT, but is really meant for a better pedal feel and spool up at lighter throttle positions.
Also I see a lot of "bottom end" comments. Do not confuse bottom end as touchy throttle. I know some of you don't, but some of you do. It is a matter of interpretation. If you drive an EZ around town normal the gains appear to be minimal, because they are more geared for the heavy throttle applications.
Don't get me wrong I think the Smarty runs well and increases drivability which I think is the intent. I do not think it is a big power adder. I bet if you look at the curve it makes more than 8hp best gain, but not peak gain. Look at some of the differences between stock and the Smarty across the rpm band. At some point it probably makes considerably more than stock, just not peak to peak.
Quad
Just because at less than 100% throttle the truck runs way better than stock, does not mean you will see a larger peak gain. On a dyno, especially a dynojet, if you fuel earlier, but not more the torque will rise ver fast. You can overfuel a truck on some dynos just to get a big torque number.
On a loaded dyno with a controlled acceleration you may see more of a gain because you can make sure the truck is stabilized and fully boosted. On an acceleration run the truck just runs the WOT fuel map. From my understanding is that the Smarty does some at WOT, but is really meant for a better pedal feel and spool up at lighter throttle positions.
Also I see a lot of "bottom end" comments. Do not confuse bottom end as touchy throttle. I know some of you don't, but some of you do. It is a matter of interpretation. If you drive an EZ around town normal the gains appear to be minimal, because they are more geared for the heavy throttle applications.
Don't get me wrong I think the Smarty runs well and increases drivability which I think is the intent. I do not think it is a big power adder. I bet if you look at the curve it makes more than 8hp best gain, but not peak gain. Look at some of the differences between stock and the Smarty across the rpm band. At some point it probably makes considerably more than stock, just not peak to peak.
Quad