Some of this info may apply to users of other after market pumps also. Been talking to the owner and developer of these pumps quit a bit here lately about his lift pumps and the drawbacks of them, and in the course of doing so found out some interesting info to share. Most of us that had these pumps bought them from a parts supplier rather than directly from Product Engineering. This being the case he said he wasn't legally able to deal directly with us, that all warranty issues had to go through the dealer you purchased from. It was up to that dealer you purchased from to honor warranties. Most of these pumps were also bought as upgrade kits that included a relay to wire the pumps with. These relays and schematics with them did not supply enough dependable voltage to operate this pump reliably. This pump took more voltage than the stock lift pump and the relay sent with the kit was ran off the stock wiring. This led to premature failure. Product Engineering new this and relayed the info to distributers, that's why he was not more forthcoming on info to the consumer. That made it not a PE problem, but the dealers who assembled these upgrade kit's problem. PE offers a relay of there own that has larger diameter wire supplied with it than came with our relays and is fed directly off the starter lug for the extra juice. Still not trying to sway any opinions here just sharing info that might help out, so no fair beatin me up about it because you don't like these pumps.

 

Without going into the debate over fuel pump brands again, I am still wondering if some of the problems with all of the electric pusher pumps, might be in some way attributal to a bad power supply problem that I was talking about here.

 

I dunno. When you run a relay your supposed to run a wire directly from the battery for your power source. The lift pump wire should only be there to trigger the relay and turn it on. I had 2 30amp relay's running my old PE pump so I don't think power was a problem. I ran all 12 gauge wire for the relays and power cables and what not. Power supply was not the issue. Mine just died. When I took it apart I was shocked to see what was inside the housing. Water, dirt, diesel, metal shavings, just plain nastiness. The brushes for the motor were worn very jagged like and weren't making any contact. The motor itself was chewed to shreds. Power supply? I think not. At least not on mine.

 

How big is the wire they supply?

I had mine running off dual 30Amp relays with 10gauge wire?

Also, I tried having the relays triggered by ignition on and by the factory LP harness.

Theres no doubt those PE pumps worked for some, just not for me.

 

Here again, I'm not talking about the PE Pumps in particular. If you take any brand out there, Carter, Holley, PE or any other some people have great luck and some can't keep them running. I am wondering if an inconsitsant power supply might be the issue in some of these cases.

 

99 cummins:

Let me start off by thanking you for posting about the PE 4200 Fuel Pumps! I was not aware that PE ever made the statement/remarks you refer to about diesel owners "buying the pumps from Parts Suppliers, rather than dealing with PE directly."

FWIW,.....both my son and I tried the PE 4200 Pumps in our Dodge CTD Pickup Trucks. My son had one in his 2001 and I had two (2) of them in my 2002 Dodge CTD. We purchased our pumps directly from a diesel performance company, formerly called "Advanced Diesel Technology." To my knowledge, they WERE dealing DIRECTLY with Product Engineering at the time they sold these fuel pumps. They also included a VERY NICE electrical "set-up" kit for these pumps AT THE DIRECTION of PE! Both my son and I had a system similar to what DTR Member "Big Blue" had on his truck! We also had "in line wire" fuses to guard against possible surges etc. as extra protection. In spite of this, neither of the PE 4200 Pumps I had lasted more than three months!!! Now, I am running a cheap Holley Red WITH THE SAME WIRING, RELAYS AND FUSES I had with the PE Pumps and that little old Holley has been on my truck for almost two (2) years now!!

Like "Big Blue" my son and I took all three (3) of our PE Pumps apart and found the EXACT SAME THING as "Big Blue" did; i.e.: water, dirt, metal shavings etc.! Our brushes were worn terribly too, looking as though the pumps had run for years instead of a few months! Like "Big Blue" and also
"Cummins4Life" the PE Pumps just would not last for us!

To give credit to Product Engineering, they did fix our fuel pumps free of charge, but after both my son and myself were left on the side of the Interstate with a failed PE Pump, we decided to make a change and went to the Holleys! And you are right, all of the pumps (including the Holleys) can fail! You won't get any argument out of me on that. But so far, the cheap old Holley has worked great for my son and I and I like them because #1.)they are cheap (pricewise), #2.)they are easy to get (you can buy them at any of the 2,000+ "Advance Auto Stores" and #3.)they come with a one year (full replacement warranty if they do fail!)

So,.....no disrespect to you AT ALL, but I have to agree with "Big Blue" and "Cummins4Life", that being; I don't think "inconsistent power supply" is the problem, at least not for us either!

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John_P

 

Mine lasted me about a year and then started blowing the fuse I had. I also got the really fancy wiring setup from PE as well. To keep the pump running at the end I had to put a wire in place of the fuse because everytime I'd start the truck the fuse would blow. I replaced the PE with a Holley Blue and I've never looked back. It's been on my truck for 2 years, holds 11psi at WOT even with the 100hp injectors and comp on 5x5, and the fuse quit blowing. I would like to send my PE pump in to get fixed so I can use it as a back up though.

 

This is my point, if you got the wiring setup from Advance Diesel with the high pressure kit, you did not get the relay set from PE, it was designed by Advance Diesel. The relay sent with Advance Diesel's kit it did not supply enough power to the pump. I really didn't intend this thread to be about the PE pumps, but rather the wiring associated with this high pressure system.

 

I don't know where my kit came from because I bought it off of a guy from the board here. All I know is that there was Product Engineering stamped all over the harness and relays and what not and it came in a Product Engineering package.

 

99 cummins:

My harness and associated wiring also had "Product Engineering" stamped on it also. As I said above, the vendor I ordered from was working WITH PE and at the time they were aware of what parts etc. were being sent because they told me that at the time of the warranty repairs! Now,.....that may not be what they are saying now,... but at the time that is the way it was!

Not to be argumentative or anything, but can you tell me why I have had NO ELECTRICAL OR MECHANICAL PROBLEMS AT ALL with the Holley Red when I am running THE SAME WIRING I had with the PE 4200??? It just doesn't make sense there "99 cummins!"

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John_P

 

There is no reason why a 30 amp relay can't be used with 12 gauge wire to power the fuel pump. With the relatively low current draw of the pump - it can't be over 10 amps, probably closer to 6, and the short run of wire needed, 14 gauge wire should really be ample, provided that the power and ground sources are chosen (and tapped into) properly.

 

I think your still taking me wrong here. I'm not trying to say good or bad about PE here. I just worded the title wrong. I was just curious as to power supply to any brand of electrical pump being an issue. I ordered a new relay system from PE and what I got is twice the sytem I got with the old setup, and that along with what I had talked to the owner about on the problems with his pump just got me curious. Not trying to defend anything, an inquiring mind just wanted to know.
There are also people on this board that have tried the various Holley's and say they are junk for these trucks, and just as many that love them. I was just trying to figure out why the different results from the same style of trucks.

 

99 cummins:

O.K., now we are getting somewhere! You hadn't told us before your last post (#12) that you had received a new relay system from PE! I still think that there were other "issues" with those pumps, but maybe the new system will help. It seems as though you have had pretty good luck with yours, and for that I am happy for you!

And you are right,... there are many people on this website that have had trouble with the Holleys and do say they are junk. One member in particular that really hates them along with FASS Pumps, Aeromotive and anything else made EXCEPT "Walbro" is our own member "Superduty!" But it is just like alot of other aftermarket products for our diesel trucks,.......it comes down to "personal preference" I guess. It is great that the PE has worked good for you! As I said earlier, the Holleys have worked great for both my son and I along with several members of our N.C. DTR group.

Like you and many other DTR Members, I only wish there was an electric fuel pump available for our diesel trucks that would last AT LEAST as long as the old mechanical fuel pumps did on the 96-98.5 Dodge CTD 12 valve trucks! My old 96' Dodge CTD 12 valve had 218,000 miles on it at the rebuild and I STILL had all of the original fuel system in it INCLUDING the old mechanical lift pump! Now that is good service out of a part!

Anyway, no hard feelings "99 cummins!" Discussions like this are always good for everybody! Take care.

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John_P