Just for the sake of debate discussion and for the fun of it why or why wouldnt you do do what ever with these parts and pieces that i have and what would you suggest as alternatives.


215HP 1998 12valve 140k miles, 6spd with new Con OFE clutch used for towing specifically from sea level to 10k ft and then alot of highway driving when empty, -30 degrees all the way to 115 degree tempreture variations in climate

These parts and pieces already are laying around the shed from previous projects so using them seems more cost effective

#5 plate (which im going to add i dont like either)
#10 plate

370 MD injectors
DD2 injectors

HX35/12 stocker (i think i have a 16 Non W/G somewhere too)
HT3B/26

set of Studs

4" exhaust

The larger 24V intercooler is already installed on the truck too




Don't want to get overly wild 500+ hp, as the the truck is still a 50k mile a year tow rig. but im thining that it can be done that the truck can live maybe even w/o orings... or whatever as i keep hearing stories about the headaches of having to constantly replace them. maybe this is just a rumor.

#10 plate slid up, w/ the DD2's running an external WG, the HX35 with a non WG 14cm (the 14 would let a little more flow? through? than the 12 plus its non wastegate so i dont have 2 wastegates to adjust) and the HT3B on the bottom. question is will the 26 housing be too big, not enough fuel being pushed then would a 22 be necessary. why or why not and would she live WGated at 45-50 PSI with studs and the MLS gasket 450HP?. Im a pretty gauge alert and not concerned with keeping the water temp under control as a little backing out of it would do the trick there.

lets hear it.

Im going to seal this motor back up and hope to not be putting O-rings or head gaskets in every 6 months

 

#10 plate with the 370's and the twin combo should be a lot of fun. I'm pretty sure you could get by with just studs and MLS gasket as long as you keep the boost around 50-60 psi.

 

I'm thinking the 26 housing might be way too big at 10,000' and that 26 is making that HX35-14 look kinda small - definately don't use the 12 cm with that big 26!.........Sounds like it might be a slow spooler and get choked on the top - especially at 10,000'?.......The 22 may be the ticket for this combo to shine?.......I'm certainly not a twins expert - just giving my .02......A conservatively placed #100 (not a fan of the #5 and I like the #100 better than the #10) plate with 18-19* timing tops will make that stock head gasket stay in place at 50 psi.........but with this setup cylinder pressures will still be a concern.

I'm sure some twins boys will chime in with the full low down on making your parts work together the best.

 

Sounds good, its kinda funny you read all the threads about twins and everyone is so hush hush about some things. I was wondering about the exhaust housing on the HT3B makes sense you want it to sopool up faster increasing volume of air to the little tubo, wonder what would happen if you upgraded to a larger intake on the HX35 like a hybrid with 60mm fanc and then the 14 or 16cm exhasut housing spool up might almost bee too fast with a small exhaust housing?

why the 370's over the DD2's? i would wonder if by sliding the plate up i couldnt push enough fuel through the DD2's to push 450HP and get a better pattern or attomization because of it being slightly restricted, i have heard the 370's slobber a little (even though i ran them before), not a big deal just something i was currious about. im thinking hte challenge to myself will be how clean and effiencient i can make this ole baby and once i get her close just fine tuning. 18-19* hmm i was pondering 16-17* 18-19* used to seem a little hard to start on cold mornings when she dipped below -10, but she would warm up better.

 

I'm kinda surprised no twins boys chimed in yet........I guess they do like to keep things hush hush.......

Plate positioning and timing sort of go hand in hand........When the plate is too far forward, you let in too much fuel too late.......almost like retarding the timing too much.......if you are adding fueling duration which is what moving the plate forward is doing, then you have to advance the pump timing accordingly to not let the additional duration end too late.........otherwise, you end up with more smoke and egt in the form of incomplete burn of the fuel.........I wish I had more practical info to share with you on this in the form of actual plate positioning measurements and degrees of advancement......My concern for you is if the plate is too far forward, you may not be able to advance the timing enough for a good burn without sending the cylinder pressures through the roof........from my practical experience, I can only run my #100 about .080" ahead of stock at 16* without some serious egt concerns........bump the timing and the egt problems dissappear but at the time I was towing heavy and I had some cylinder pressure concerns..........at 450 - 500hp, there may not be a substitute for the proper flowing injector to get the required level of fueling............I have no practical experience with DD2's but is it safe to say they won't support 500hp?........We know 370's will.........I know they are smokey at low boost and don't atomize well at low flow.......but atomization won't be too much of a factor at 500 hp, IMO........it's more for efficiency..........Maybe sell the 370's and DD2's and get a set of Mach 2's or 2.5's?.........You'll get the best of both worlds that way - the best atomization to flow ratio you can get!........I think a HX35-14cm would work well with a HT3B-22cm.........I don't think you would have to worry about spool up being too quick........I know this setup will limit top end but you don't want a dyno buggy either that just gives good peak #'s but has a poor curve just to get peak power!.........I think for a strong tow truck you want the fattest torque curve you can get at the risk of some peak power........I'll take a snappy 450 hp over a peaky 500 hp any day!........Again, no practical experience but I think if you go bigger on the intake on the little turbo, you will be overboosting on the top end!.........You are going to be restricted to 50-55 psi with the stock head gasket and I think the HX35-14cm with the HT3B-22cm will easily deliver 55 psi of cool, cool boost..........maybe someone will clarify this for us!.........Ya got me interested in this too!

 

I agree on the timing and plate location along with gov arm positioning to fin tune where the fueling curve starts and how it goes through. very interesting take on things there. i used to run my #10's 20-30 thou back from forward on a 180 pump running 15.5-16.5* timing and had good results yet full forward in the same application would drop of fand over fuel.

Thats exacts my thoughts on the overboosting on the top end, too big may exceed the capacity. Drive pressure is a concern also. I think the twin boys just want to sit back and watch.

My thoughts too on the HP i'll take the 450+/- hp for now and be happy with the fact that i can tow with it all day long and not be popping head gaskets nor fighting EGTs anymore and the california smoke ****'s wont be looking at me cross eyed. Could probably get away with setting the blow off at 45psi and then work her up if necessary

 

You can see my sign. on my 97 and I have the twins dumbed up on the work bench. I have almost what you are looking at. With 19.5 timing and the 100 plate slid all the way forward it runs like a turpintined dog! I do have my afc set conservatively right now but I'm so happy with this setup it ought to be illigel. I know it's on the edge on head gasket and my studs didn't come in today but I'm going to try to get by with the stock head gasket as long as possible. Give it a try and don't be afraid of the timing although every motor is different I might just be lucky for now. My truck now doesn't smoke very hard taking off but does have some black smoke up in the rpm's. The hardest part when shifting manually is keeping it from going over 3500. I've got to get some springs too. Good luck on you're truck.

 

What you need to do Dusty is send me that Ht3B/26 for finally getting you to use the #10 plate in your converted Ford
I may need something like that for those EDM Mach 2.5s that go in next week!

Rick

 

What kind of boost are you seeing with that twins set up?.......Sounds like it rocks!.........My concerns are still with the head gasket.......without being able to accurately measure cylinder pressure I would be concerned about the stock gasket.......

 

Nah Rick how this should work is i have the bigger pump so you need to donate the Mach 2.5's to me. But i definately still owe you a 12 pack of moosedrool for convincing me to run that 10 best advise i ever got. Glad i got rid of the converted Forged though i like the ride of my dodge better.

ill fab up the twins tubing etc for mine and we'll see how she works. Might have to have the shop make two set of tubing cause you might be chomping at the bit at that point.

Soon as i get the 02 sold im coming your way with beer in ice chest

Yes definately what kind of boost are you running? do you feel like a smaller exhasut housing would speed up the lower turbo and that a bigger top exhaust housing might be in order? Interesting to hear. Thanks and all have a good weekend it beer 30 now

 

I would never go back. I pull a 50 ft enclosed trailer. I have not advanced my pump timing yet....its been 7 months now with the twins. I m going to do the timing in the next couple weeks though. To be honest the truck runs so well I havn t had a need to, so its just been put off........

I tried the 12 housing, its a no go. I run a 16 on the 35 now.
I can pull baker grade at 70 mph too.....in 5th with 3.54's and 235 tires. Last time I did have to down shift to 4th due to traffic.

You ll have to fab a 5 inch DP off the ht3b, not easy.....I ovaled mine a tad......then reduce to 4 inches at the rear of the door, where I put my gv decelorator......

I run 40 psi with what I think is way retarded pump timing....Im guessing 10 or so.....I may be doing the timing next week end.

Edit: I run a 16 cm and 26 cm housings.

 

Waste early for back pressure (I would put a gauge on it while tuning for safety) and get the boost pressure valves opening at 50. You may want to do a search since TinInVa has run different (22? 26?) housings on his big turbo. He's posted the results of each housing in the thread I remember here on DTR.

brandon. - not the twins expert