Build Me a 12V 600hp Daily Driver...Please!
08-04-2007, 07:11 PM
#46
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I feel your pain Chris! I completely destroyed mine about 3 weeks ago and since pulling the head off the following day have been trying to port out the head as much as possible.
And $60 worth of grinding stones later I still have 2.5 intake ports left, 3 exhaust runners left and then all the intake runners, lol. Then I am going to bust out some emory cloth and try to get it all polished up to as close to a mirror as I can. Hopefully after spending this much time on it I will see a pretty noticable gain in combination with the PDR cam I am putting in while the head is getting all the machine work.
I see that John_P and Wana12v both have girdles in their list, what is the main purpose of one and when does it become neccassary?
And $60 worth of grinding stones later I still have 2.5 intake ports left, 3 exhaust runners left and then all the intake runners, lol. Then I am going to bust out some emory cloth and try to get it all polished up to as close to a mirror as I can. Hopefully after spending this much time on it I will see a pretty noticable gain in combination with the PDR cam I am putting in while the head is getting all the machine work.
I see that John_P and Wana12v both have girdles in their list, what is the main purpose of one and when does it become neccassary?
Muddin_dude:
You asked about the "girdles" on our blocks. Their purpose is to stiffen the lower part of the block to give more support to the crankshaft, main caps and main bearings. In other words to lessen the amount of movement by those components. The newer Cummins 5.9 Common Rail Blocks have a "reinforcing rib" on them which in essence basically does the same thing or serves a similar purpose.
Hope this helps you some.
--------
John_P
08-04-2007, 11:50 PM
#47
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mine is a factory cummins girdle, you have to run two pickup gaskets and two oil pan gaskets along with longer bolts.
im not sure if john has the one ive got or the modified one where you run main studs that go through the girdle.
im not sure if john has the one ive got or the modified one where you run main studs that go through the girdle.
08-05-2007, 11:46 AM
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As far as building the pump goes, you are going to have to send your pump to a diesel shop or buy a performance tuned pump...just swapping out dv's won't get you anywhere near enough fuel...
just guessing from the pumps i've built where i work, you would have to have a cam swap/machine job, swap out barrels and plungers, cut dv's, and install gsk of some kind to get the fueling needed for that many ponies...probably 450 to 500 cc's is my guess...
and you don't have to stop at 600 hp either...lol...you can stuff lots more fuel and air to it
...those p-pumps can be pushed to 1150 or 1200 cc's if they are built and machined correctly...
just guessing from the pumps i've built where i work, you would have to have a cam swap/machine job, swap out barrels and plungers, cut dv's, and install gsk of some kind to get the fueling needed for that many ponies...probably 450 to 500 cc's is my guess...
and you don't have to stop at 600 hp either...lol...you can stuff lots more fuel and air to it
...those p-pumps can be pushed to 1150 or 1200 cc's if they are built and machined correctly...
08-05-2007, 10:13 PM
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08-08-2007, 12:01 AM
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the p-7100 injection pump is a awsome pump i have heard of poeple running 1400cc of fuel which just seems absolutly insane and cant imagine how much that would cost it cost me 2 grand to get 600cc
is there any major benifit to running the girdle that uses studs vs the cummins one
is there any major benifit to running the girdle that uses studs vs the cummins one
08-08-2007, 11:38 AM
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I've noticed this on this post and a few others here lately.
Does everybody have personal experience with all the mods, or do they just say, o you need this cause i read it?
I don't mean it in a bad way i'm just sayin, some of these things can be done chepaer.
3k for dual disk installed, thats high
5k twins, it can be done cheaper
Head work, some what over rated but I know 12v don't flow that great.
4k for pump work, I know fo ppl that do much cheaper than that, now granted its on pullin tractors but I know of 4 tractors usin P7100s.
I mean everybody posts the same thing over and over, and I know many have personal experience with these mods,but I believe some just say cuase everybody else does.
All I'm sayin is to anybody buildin anything, look, shop, talk, bs with just about anybody who can help you can, cause friend of a friend works out most of the time.
Shop around, I know you can find some of that stuff cheaper than some prices listed here.
Does everybody have personal experience with all the mods, or do they just say, o you need this cause i read it?
I don't mean it in a bad way i'm just sayin, some of these things can be done chepaer.
3k for dual disk installed, thats high
5k twins, it can be done cheaper
Head work, some what over rated but I know 12v don't flow that great.
4k for pump work, I know fo ppl that do much cheaper than that, now granted its on pullin tractors but I know of 4 tractors usin P7100s.
I mean everybody posts the same thing over and over, and I know many have personal experience with these mods,but I believe some just say cuase everybody else does.
All I'm sayin is to anybody buildin anything, look, shop, talk, bs with just about anybody who can help you can, cause friend of a friend works out most of the time.
Shop around, I know you can find some of that stuff cheaper than some prices listed here.
08-08-2007, 12:39 PM
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To get a 600hp DAILY DRIVEN 12v costs more money than a 600hp 12v If you want a huge single charger that you can sled pull at 5K RPM with, fine...but don't tell me you can tow with it, with a stock head and cam...ain't gonna happen!
The newer trucks have it easy, towing with a 66mm charger, turning boxes down, awesome stock head airflow (compared to a 12v), and better control over fueling! The 12v's are fueling monsters, but there are a TON of tradeoffs when you start talking bigger power!
I haven't made it to 600hp yet, 380hp to be exact...I'm about to drop about $3K in airflow BOMBs while fixing my headgasket, which with studs and orings will cost another $1K, and the fuel system will probably be another $1K...not too mention the $2K I have in the single charger setup, $2.5K I have in an injection pump and injectors, $6K+ in a tranny, and I haven't even started on the twins yet!
Add up the $K's...there's 13.5 of them, no twins, few drivetrain BOMBs, and until the headgasket, no breakage. This stuff ain't cheap, and with the smoke this thing will make, driving it is a major PITA everyday.
Good luck...I sure hope you can make it work for what you want...cause I've tried as many different setups as anyone, and haven't found but a few that I really like for a daily driven 12v...and most of them were around 350-400hp, with a manual tranny!
Just my opinion...not even worth $.02!
Chris
If you want a huge single charger that you can sled pull at 5K RPM with, fine...but don't tell me you can tow with it, with a stock head and cam...ain't gonna happen!The newer trucks have it easy, towing with a 66mm charger, turning boxes down, awesome stock head airflow (compared to a 12v
), and better control over fueling! The 12v's are fueling monsters, but there are a TON of tradeoffs when you start talking bigger power!I haven't made it to 600hp yet, 380hp to be exact...I'm about to drop about $3K in airflow BOMBs while fixing my headgasket, which with studs and orings will cost another $1K, and the fuel system will probably be another $1K...not too mention the $2K I have in the single charger setup, $2.5K I have in an injection pump and injectors, $6K+ in a tranny, and I haven't even started on the twins yet!
Add up the $K's...there's 13.5 of them, no twins, few drivetrain BOMBs, and until the headgasket, no breakage. This stuff ain't cheap, and with the smoke this thing will make, driving it is a major PITA everyday.
Good luck...I sure hope you can make it work for what you want...cause I've tried as many different setups as anyone, and haven't found but a few that I really like for a daily driven 12v...and most of them were around 350-400hp, with a manual tranny!
Just my opinion...not even worth $.02!
Chris
08-08-2007, 02:35 PM
#53
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To get a 600hp DAILY DRIVEN 12v costs more money than a 600hp 12v If you want a huge single charger that you can sled pull at 5K RPM with, fine...but don't tell me you can tow with it, with a stock head and cam...ain't gonna happen!
The newer trucks have it easy, towing with a 66mm charger, turning boxes down, awesome stock head airflow (compared to a 12v), and better control over fueling! The 12v's are fueling monsters, but there are a TON of tradeoffs when you start talking bigger power!
I haven't made it to 600hp yet, 380hp to be exact...I'm about to drop about $3K in airflow BOMBs while fixing my headgasket, which with studs and orings will cost another $1K, and the fuel system will probably be another $1K...not too mention the $2K I have in the single charger setup, $2.5K I have in an injection pump and injectors, $6K+ in a tranny, and I haven't even started on the twins yet!
Add up the $K's...there's 13.5 of them, no twins, few drivetrain BOMBs, and until the headgasket, no breakage. This stuff ain't cheap, and with the smoke this thing will make, driving it is a major PITA everyday.
Good luck...I sure hope you can make it work for what you want...cause I've tried as many different setups as anyone, and haven't found but a few that I really like for a daily driven 12v...and most of them were around 350-400hp, with a manual tranny!
Just my opinion...not even worth $.02!
Chris
If you want a huge single charger that you can sled pull at 5K RPM with, fine...but don't tell me you can tow with it, with a stock head and cam...ain't gonna happen!The newer trucks have it easy, towing with a 66mm charger, turning boxes down, awesome stock head airflow (compared to a 12v
), and better control over fueling! The 12v's are fueling monsters, but there are a TON of tradeoffs when you start talking bigger power!I haven't made it to 600hp yet, 380hp to be exact...I'm about to drop about $3K in airflow BOMBs while fixing my headgasket, which with studs and orings will cost another $1K, and the fuel system will probably be another $1K...not too mention the $2K I have in the single charger setup, $2.5K I have in an injection pump and injectors, $6K+ in a tranny, and I haven't even started on the twins yet!
Add up the $K's...there's 13.5 of them, no twins, few drivetrain BOMBs, and until the headgasket, no breakage. This stuff ain't cheap, and with the smoke this thing will make, driving it is a major PITA everyday.
Good luck...I sure hope you can make it work for what you want...cause I've tried as many different setups as anyone, and haven't found but a few that I really like for a daily driven 12v...and most of them were around 350-400hp, with a manual tranny!
Just my opinion...not even worth $.02!
Chris
the only advise i would give is get as much air as you can get to the motor
08-08-2007, 03:21 PM
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i think you got it right hp is very expensive when you want to be able to use it all the time the way i am setup right now i have to be very very carful with the go pedle or its a total blackout for the cars behind me and i am running just a set of highflow injectors and garret says the charger i have will support 550hp but its seem to be very undersized for the fuel i have on tap so now i will need another to go on the bottom
the only advise i would give is get as much air as you can get to the motor
the only advise i would give is get as much air as you can get to the motor
Chris
08-09-2007, 10:28 AM
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Clutch is 2275, Fluids, labor on installing clutch and input shaft in trans, sounds good to me?
It could, if you want a smaller set, or build em yourself.
Interesting statement
Start throwing custom grind cams in your pump or bigger P+B's and you will come close to 3K no doubt.
Think there on to something???
5k twins, it can be done cheaper
Head work, some what over rated but I know 12v don't flow that great.
4k for pump work, I know fo ppl that do much cheaper than that, now granted its on pullin tractors but I know of 4 tractors usin P7100s.
I mean everybody posts the same thing over and over, and I know many have personal experience with these mods,but I believe some just say cuase everybody else does.
08-09-2007, 09:11 PM
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Ok how big a set of twins do you want???
What bout the stock 35/hybrid, then into a BTH3, one went on here for 375 or 400 bucks??
Why custom cam?? I mean I'm just wonderin since there are a few companies that make them.
Signature600, what fuel system are you gonna run that cost 1k??
What bout the stock 35/hybrid, then into a BTH3, one went on here for 375 or 400 bucks??
Why custom cam?? I mean I'm just wonderin since there are a few companies that make them.
Signature600, what fuel system are you gonna run that cost 1k??
08-09-2007, 09:18 PM
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Great point.
I doubt that those twins would cool enough to support that much power on a 12v...
I'm guessing this fuel system- http://www.opieparts.com/Products.htm
Ok how big a set of twins do you want???
What bout the stock 35/hybrid, then into a BTH3, one went on here for 375 or 400 bucks??
Why custom cam?? I mean I'm just wonderin since there are a few companies that make them.
Signature600, what fuel system are you gonna run that cost 1k??
What bout the stock 35/hybrid, then into a BTH3, one went on here for 375 or 400 bucks??
Why custom cam?? I mean I'm just wonderin since there are a few companies that make them.
Signature600, what fuel system are you gonna run that cost 1k??
I'm guessing this fuel system- http://www.opieparts.com/Products.htm
08-09-2007, 10:23 PM
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I'm told that will work well with an out of the box s400 which can be found fairly cheap.
08-10-2007, 08:37 AM
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GT4088R/GT4508R, 2 external wastegates...those are a 2.5" and a 3.18" chargers respectively
Won't even be close for a 600hp 12v...at least if you want to use them. Need a HX40/B2 at least, and a 62mm S300/B2 would be better
Not everyone needs a custom cam...the stock one isn't bad...but in my opinion, for daily driving the bigger chargers, a cam should make a difference in smoke and throttle response to make it "nicer" to drive!
Actually, I'm not sure yet...here's Option 1:
FASS 180GPH HPFP, no filters @ 50psi...then I'll be adding my own Fleetguard filters (2micron and a Water Separator), and running all new, 1/2" tank pickup, lines, and a 3/8" regulated, boost referenced return. Should handle whatever I can throw at it!
Looked at it, and it's actually cheaper...but I'm not sure about the extra plumbing involved to get it back to my filters. It's still a contender
Need to make up my mind while I have the truck torn down
Chris
Actually, I'm not sure yet...here's Option 1:
FASS 180GPH HPFP, no filters @ 50psi...then I'll be adding my own Fleetguard filters (2micron and a Water Separator), and running all new, 1/2" tank pickup, lines, and a 3/8" regulated, boost referenced return. Should handle whatever I can throw at it!
I'm guessing this fuel system- http://www.opieparts.com/Products.htm
Need to make up my mind while I have the truck torn down
Chris
08-10-2007, 08:59 AM
#60
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[QUOTE=deereguy07;1640527]Ok how big a set of twins do you want???
What bout the stock 35/hybrid, then into a BTH3, one went on here for 375 or 400 bucks??
Why custom cam?? I mean I'm just wonderin since there are a few companies that make them.
------------------
deerguy07:
I am assuming you are referring to my post in your question about the "custom camshaft." I guess I should have just put "Scheids 12 valve Camshaft." As you pointed out, a "few companies make them" but each one has their own version(s) with respect to lift/duration etc. IMHO, the camshaft will help the throttle response and EGT's as I have seen this with not only my 96' but also with my now sold 2002 Dodge CTD 24 valve truck.
I also would agree with Chris (signature600) on the size of the turbos for a twin system. Some of the Members here may not like it that I am agreeing with Chris, but if he and I have both gone that route with our trucks and found that a smaller set of twins do not work for higher power (600+), then I do not see why a Member with some experience in it can't give an opinion or advice to what works or what may not. Just my .02 cents..................
---------
John_P
What bout the stock 35/hybrid, then into a BTH3, one went on here for 375 or 400 bucks??
Why custom cam?? I mean I'm just wonderin since there are a few companies that make them.
------------------
deerguy07:
I am assuming you are referring to my post in your question about the "custom camshaft." I guess I should have just put "Scheids 12 valve Camshaft." As you pointed out, a "few companies make them" but each one has their own version(s) with respect to lift/duration etc. IMHO, the camshaft will help the throttle response and EGT's as I have seen this with not only my 96' but also with my now sold 2002 Dodge CTD 24 valve truck.
I also would agree with Chris (signature600) on the size of the turbos for a twin system. Some of the Members here may not like it that I am agreeing with Chris, but if he and I have both gone that route with our trucks and found that a smaller set of twins do not work for higher power (600+), then I do not see why a Member with some experience in it can't give an opinion or advice to what works or what may not. Just my .02 cents..................
---------
John_P