Build Me a 12V 600hp Daily Driver...Please!
08-01-2007, 08:10 PM
#31
Registered User
[QUOTE=MrSuzuki;1626707]
Now I ask this...how many of the individuals that posted to the thread, are actually producing 600hp? Maybe one...wanna12v! Therefore, he is the only one that can honestly say it is impossible, yet he didn't.
Well...... I posted my personal opinion and do own a 600hp 12v but it sounds like you didn't like the answer and think you already know? Why dont you just spend the $$$ and try it.... then we will see your thoughts?
Now I ask this...how many of the individuals that posted to the thread, are actually producing 600hp? Maybe one...wanna12v! Therefore, he is the only one that can honestly say it is impossible, yet he didn't.
Well...... I posted my personal opinion and do own a 600hp 12v but it sounds like you didn't like the answer and think you already know? Why dont you just spend the $$$ and try it.... then we will see your thoughts?
08-01-2007, 08:42 PM
#32
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Magnolia, TX
Posts: 901
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well.... I know Bobcat698 was at around 550+/- RWHP with a 180 pump that had a Mack Plug, Scheid Laser Cuts, 4GSK, DDP4's, 0 plate, 21* timing and a HTT Pro Street 66. I think he MIGHT have already had a ported head as well but I'm not sure, it ran great he even towed his '96 back from Houston last year. He said spoolup was just fine and it cruised at 900* egt's while doing 70mph. Surely if the same mods were done and a cam was added into the mix you could get pretty dang close to 600 hp.
I really think that once my head and cam are situated I could bump the timing to 20*-22* and add a good 66mm turbo and get really close to 600hp. I am hoping the cam and port & polish will make drivability even better than now, right now I can get good mileage drive around my injectors stutter nice and smooth while being able to smoke camaros and mustangs
... Well atleast whenever the head was attached to the truck haha.
I really think that once my head and cam are situated I could bump the timing to 20*-22* and add a good 66mm turbo and get really close to 600hp. I am hoping the cam and port & polish will make drivability even better than now, right now I can get good mileage drive around my injectors stutter nice and smooth while being able to smoke camaros and mustangs
... Well atleast whenever the head was attached to the truck haha.
08-02-2007, 02:32 AM
#33
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stevens Point WI
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With bobcats truck you have to remeber that it is built to run in a certin class for sled pullin. As for for daily driving well, with the single can be done, it's like driving a big cam big block not a truck, twins would be the way to go. with the truck set up right now at high way speeds it is border line on too hot. His old set up did not have a ported head. But i think the one point in this threads is you need a good shop that is willing to work to get to the goal, because their is no set way to make power, just the time to to figure out how to get their. Ask garret how much time he has in his truck, how many late nights etc. 600hp can be had many ways it's just witch way will you do it.
08-02-2007, 10:33 AM
#35
Administrator
John
When I witnessed your truck run it wouldn't smoke out a 2 lane highway....it smoked out a whole ZIPCODE
Can't wait till we can roll some more smoke!!
Mr.Suzuki
Even though I own a Ford I have relied on JohnP for advice on fueling(Fass) and Nos and he has always taken the time to help steer me in the right direction.
You are getting some great advice from the members here and you are going about it the right way by asking people that have already been there and done that.
You will be money ahead in the end...good luck on your build!!
When I witnessed your truck run it wouldn't smoke out a 2 lane highway....it smoked out a whole ZIPCODE
Can't wait till we can roll some more smoke!!
Mr.Suzuki
Even though I own a Ford I have relied on JohnP for advice on fueling(Fass) and Nos and he has always taken the time to help steer me in the right direction.
You are getting some great advice from the members here and you are going about it the right way by asking people that have already been there and done that.
You will be money ahead in the end...good luck on your build!!
David:
Thanks for the kind words buddy! Your right, my truck definitely will put some black smoke down now, but it still is pretty "controllable" with my foot running straight and level down the Interstate or highways. It is "wispy" right off idle and puts out small puffs of black when it shifts, but once I am rolling IMO it does pretty good considering the amount of fuel I have now.
--------
John_P
08-03-2007, 09:16 AM
#37
Administrator
Daniel:
Thanks for the nice comments!
The problem with my 96' at the "T&S Rally"in Kentucky wasn't the torque converter, but the high/reverse clutch pack.
The clutches in that pack were wore out, but I still drove it from Ky. to Effingham. Ill to the Scheid's shop there to get my Transmission Builder there
(Brian Koester) to "freshen" everything up!
Daniel, to answer your question, I would definitely say that my 96' is both very streetable and a good daily driver too. I drive it here almost everyday and would rather drive it than my 2006 Dodge CTD CR Truck!
More power in case I need it!---------
John_P
The following users liked this post:
Kaleb12valve (11-21-2021)
08-03-2007, 11:29 AM
#38
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Plover, WI
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with Joker, there is no set way to get it. It takes lots of work, experimentation to get the combo and tuning right. I am going for a 350 hp 12 valve myself, no more. It is easy to get that amount, it's fairly easy to hit 400 hp and still be fairly nice on the street. It's not easy/cheap to go over that and still have a streetable truck.
I guess the question that should be asked is: What is your definition of streetable? 12 Valves are gonna be smokey, and a single charger is gonna be laggy to keep the topend flow to produce the power. I never said it was impossible myself, but it's not just throwing a couple parts on the motor and you have it at 600 hp.
I guess the question that should be asked is: What is your definition of streetable? 12 Valves are gonna be smokey, and a single charger is gonna be laggy to keep the topend flow to produce the power. I never said it was impossible myself, but it's not just throwing a couple parts on the motor and you have it at 600 hp.
08-03-2007, 12:24 PM
#39
Registered User
Mr. Suzuki:
I commend you on starting the thread to get opinions and input from the Members on a 600 H.P. buildup and also feel your "frustration" on the repsonses not providing everything you were looking for! As you already pointed out, DTR member "wana12v" did give you some good input. One thing I would add is that asking ten (10) DTR Members here a question can give you ten different answers on almost any subject!
Like "wana12v" and a few others here, I have been on a steady "buildup" of my 1996 Dodge CTD, 4X4 12 valve almost since the day I bought it. At present, I sit at 809 H.P./1496 TQ.......AND the truck IS a daily driver! But not long ago, (about two years ago) I was at a little over 600 H.P. and can tell you that the truck was driven daily back then too, but was not as fast as it is now.
I would agree with what "wana12v" has posted for you on the "ingredients" or components/parts needed to get a Cummins 5.9 12 valve to 600 H.P. The only thing I did not see on his list which I highly would recommend is some type of a water injection system (Snow, Cool Mist, Painless, Scheids). I can tell you that even at 600 H.P. I DEFINITELY had EGT issues and they were serious under WOT conditions. At the 800 H.P. mark, my Snow System was NOT enough and I had to upgrade to Scheids Water System which provides much more water pressure with more nozzles.
I also know from experience that as Rick pointed out, the smoke CAN be an issue with the 12 valve engines, but if the components are properly matched up and the engine built correctly, that smoke can be controlled with ones foot! My smoke was pretty bad at 600 H.P. but nowhere near as bad as it is now under WOT. Here is a video to give you an idea of how bad my smoke can be at 800 H.P. from a recent dyno event this spring:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...36276784&hl=en
To help you out somemore, when I was at the 600+ mark with my truck, this is a short list of some of my internal parts/components. You will see that it is very close to the list "wana12v" has given you. Scheid Diesel has done all the work on my engines since the beginning:
Fly-cut Scheid Arias Pistons (Lowered Compression)
14mm studs and Firerings in Block
Girdled Block
Scheid Tuned 180 Pump (191 DV's, Custom Plate, 450cc's fuel, Active Aneroid
4,000 GSK
Scheid Custom Camshaft
60lb. valve springs (Intake and exhaust)
Scheid Custom Injectors
Scheid Twin Turbos (Top: HX-40/16 Bottom: Schwitzer B-2)
22 degrees of timing
Hope this helps you some. I also wanted to let you know that I just got done driving my 96' all the way from eastern N.C. to Denver, Colorado (and back)to the "ATS Truckfest" putting on some 3,500 miles roundtrip and got as much as 18.2 MPG,...........IF,..... I kept my speeds at about 70-75 MPH!
Riding "straight and level" down the Interstate then (at 600 H.P.) and even now I can keep the smoke at a pretty clean level as long as I watch how much pressure I put on the accelerator. There are other DTR Members that have been behind my 96' on the Interstates and highways that can back up what I am saying here and tell you this is the absolute truth about my truck and the smoke level etc.
Hang in there Mr. Suzuki and I know you can get your truck to where you want it.
Good luck to you in your buildup!
--------
John_P
I commend you on starting the thread to get opinions and input from the Members on a 600 H.P. buildup and also feel your "frustration" on the repsonses not providing everything you were looking for!
As you already pointed out, DTR member "wana12v" did give you some good input. One thing I would add is that asking ten (10) DTR Members here a question can give you ten different answers on almost any subject!Like "wana12v" and a few others here, I have been on a steady "buildup" of my 1996 Dodge CTD, 4X4 12 valve almost since the day I bought it. At present, I sit at 809 H.P./1496 TQ.......AND the truck IS a daily driver! But not long ago, (about two years ago) I was at a little over 600 H.P. and can tell you that the truck was driven daily back then too, but was not as fast as it is now.
I would agree with what "wana12v" has posted for you on the "ingredients" or components/parts needed to get a Cummins 5.9 12 valve to 600 H.P. The only thing I did not see on his list which I highly would recommend is some type of a water injection system (Snow, Cool Mist, Painless, Scheids). I can tell you that even at 600 H.P. I DEFINITELY had EGT issues and they were serious under WOT conditions. At the 800 H.P. mark, my Snow System was NOT enough and I had to upgrade to Scheids Water System which provides much more water pressure with more nozzles.
I also know from experience that as Rick pointed out, the smoke CAN be an issue with the 12 valve engines, but if the components are properly matched up and the engine built correctly, that smoke can be controlled with ones foot!
My smoke was pretty bad at 600 H.P. but nowhere near as bad as it is now under WOT. Here is a video to give you an idea of how bad my smoke can be at 800 H.P. from a recent dyno event this spring:http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...36276784&hl=en
To help you out somemore, when I was at the 600+ mark with my truck, this is a short list of some of my internal parts/components. You will see that it is very close to the list "wana12v" has given you. Scheid Diesel has done all the work on my engines since the beginning:
Fly-cut Scheid Arias Pistons (Lowered Compression)
14mm studs and Firerings in Block
Girdled Block
Scheid Tuned 180 Pump (191 DV's, Custom Plate, 450cc's fuel, Active Aneroid
4,000 GSK
Scheid Custom Camshaft
60lb. valve springs (Intake and exhaust)
Scheid Custom Injectors
Scheid Twin Turbos (Top: HX-40/16 Bottom: Schwitzer B-2)
22 degrees of timing
Hope this helps you some. I also wanted to let you know that I just got done driving my 96' all the way from eastern N.C. to Denver, Colorado (and back)to the "ATS Truckfest" putting on some 3,500 miles roundtrip and got as much as 18.2 MPG,...........IF,..... I kept my speeds at about 70-75 MPH!
Riding "straight and level" down the Interstate then (at 600 H.P.) and even now I can keep the smoke at a pretty clean level as long as I watch how much pressure I put on the accelerator. There are other DTR Members that have been behind my 96' on the Interstates and highways that can back up what I am saying here and tell you this is the absolute truth about my truck and the smoke level etc.Hang in there Mr. Suzuki and I know you can get your truck to where you want it.
Good luck to you in your buildup!
--------
John_P
Listen to John--He has helped me with my 98, with John's great advise I jumped from 310/675 to 436/957 to ??? After I reached the 436 John and I put a Scheid pump on the truck---
I don't have "official" dyno numbers yet, but my truck has run a 12.88 at 104 on number 2 and water only. I suspect I am north of 500 but it is speculation at this point. I have 370's, a number 10 plate with an HX40-16, 4" exhaust and the AFE intake. The Scheid pump had a HUGE difference in this truck. I drive it everyday, tow about 8K with it and take it on vacations--It smokes a little bit at idle, and as John said, with self control I can be nearly smoke free, when I want to be a child----balck smoke eveywhere. I hope this helps----Good luckMcMopar
08-03-2007, 02:40 PM
#41
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Clarksville, TN
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok Guys, If I bought a HTT 62/13 S/S now, and later when closing in on 600, go to a twin set-up, would my HTT be usable for the twin set-up? Or would I need 2 different turbos from that?
08-03-2007, 07:12 PM
#42
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Little Rock
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
08-04-2007, 07:51 AM
#43
Administrator
Mr. Suzuki-----
Listen to John--He has helped me with my 98, with John's great advise I jumped from 310/675 to 436/957 to ??? After I reached the 436 John and I put a Scheid pump on the truck---I don't have "official" dyno numbers yet, but my truck has run a 12.88 at 104 on number 2 and water only. I suspect I am north of 500 but it is speculation at this point. I have 370's, a number 10 plate with an HX40-16, 4" exhaust and the AFE intake. The Scheid pump had a HUGE difference in this truck. I drive it everyday, tow about 8K with it and take it on vacations--It smokes a little bit at idle, and as John said, with self control I can be nearly smoke free, when I want to be a child----balck smoke eveywhere. I hope this helps----Good luck
McMopar
Listen to John--He has helped me with my 98, with John's great advise I jumped from 310/675 to 436/957 to ??? After I reached the 436 John and I put a Scheid pump on the truck---
I don't have "official" dyno numbers yet, but my truck has run a 12.88 at 104 on number 2 and water only. I suspect I am north of 500 but it is speculation at this point. I have 370's, a number 10 plate with an HX40-16, 4" exhaust and the AFE intake. The Scheid pump had a HUGE difference in this truck. I drive it everyday, tow about 8K with it and take it on vacations--It smokes a little bit at idle, and as John said, with self control I can be nearly smoke free, when I want to be a child----balck smoke eveywhere. I hope this helps----Good luckMcMopar
Phil:
Thanks for your post!
You truck is a very good example of another Cummins 5.9 12 valve that is in the area Mr. Suzuki is looking to reach, and I also might add, a truck that is "daily driven" by you to work each day. As I said, it can be done pretty easily and there are alot more of them than people think.
Thanks again Phil.
---------
John_P
08-04-2007, 08:22 AM
#44
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Jeffersonville, Ohio
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Watch out for head gasket trouble on your way to 600hp...just met my first one last night! Studs and O-rings are mandatory
On a brighter note though, my fuel pressure is GREAT!
Chris
On a brighter note though, my fuel pressure is GREAT!
Chris
08-04-2007, 11:05 AM
#45
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Magnolia, TX
Posts: 901
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I feel your pain Chris! I completely destroyed mine about 3 weeks ago and since pulling the head off the following day have been trying to port out the head as much as possible.
And $60 worth of grinding stones later I still have 2.5 intake ports left, 3 exhaust runners left and then all the intake runners, lol. Then I am going to bust out some emory cloth and try to get it all polished up to as close to a mirror as I can. Hopefully after spending this much time on it I will see a pretty noticable gain in combination with the PDR cam I am putting in while the head is getting all the machine work.
I see that John_P and Wana12v both have girdles in their list, what is the main purpose of one and when does it become neccassary?