Well sneaked into the kitchen ... bypassed my wife.... but couldn't find any of these syrup over here.... ;D<br><br>Installed one Optima redtop 1050 (Nr34) today. Starts up really nice on this battery. (Much better than on the old shot ones)<br>I look forward to the cold start tomorrow morning. <br><br>AlpineRAM

 

Alpineram, I visited your country several years ago. Very beautiful, but I am wondering how you fit that Ram on those narrow roads?

 

[quote author=Pit Bull link=board=7;threadid=14006;start=30#133436 date=1051673027]
Alpineram, I visited your country several years ago. Very beautiful, but I am wondering how you fit that Ram on those narrow roads?
[/quote]

Since he is the biggest vehicle driving them, he get's automatic Right of Way. ;D

And since you can hear the Cummins a mile away, the other vehicles have plenty of time to move

I have to visit someday,
ancestorial home so to speak
(well, Germany actually, but close enough)


phox

 

The RAM fits on the road nicely! You have at least 2&quot; of air from each mirror ;D <br>I have modded my steering a bit to get rid of those wobbles etc. Since then I drive around @ 100 -120 km/hr on the sideroads. ( GTI hunting is one of my favourite hobbies) <br>For fuel economy I just do 130-140 km/hr on the highways. (Sometimes I need to go 110-120 mph to play a bit, but I am afraid to hurt the fuel gauge needle because if it impacts at the speed it falls then I am shure it must break ;D )<br>Actually I have driven semis on the same roads too. Just takes some concentration to do it right, but there is ample space. When I was in the states I usually wondered why there are these wide roads where you aren't allowed to drive at decent speeds. ???<br>If any one of you finds the opportunity to come over here be shure to call me. <br>Would really love to have some face to face BSing technical discussions over some beverages.<br><br>AlpineRAM.<br><br>PS- There is a new user called Bavarian Ram who will meet me this friday (hope so)- I told him to visit this site. <br><br>

 

[quote author=Gary - KJ6Q link=board=7;threadid=14006;start=15#132210 date=1051377533]<br>Be sure to pay close attention to that RESERVE amp-hour rating - that is what determines how long you can operate accessories, or forget to turn off yer headlights before the battery goes dead - high cranking amps are important, but if you have lots of add-ons that place high current loads on your system for extended periods when the motor might be off, all that &quot;cold cranking amps&quot; might not be your primary concern.<br>[/quote]<br><br>this is probably the best advice in this whole thread. The high CCA spec is a marketing trick, and results in LESS RELIABLE BATTERIES. yup, a bonus of taking Gary's advice is that the high reserve capacity batteries are constructed with thicker plates and are less susceptable to vibration damage or even shorting. when shopping for a battery, get absolutely the MOST reserve capacity you can (without buying a deep cycle. stick with a starting battery unless you are an ambulance) while staying at or above the stock battery's CCA rating. Gary's right -- in the vast majority of cases, CCA is not the primary concern, nor is it the limiting factor with the battery gets old or stressed. high CCA batteries are cheep to make. high reserve capacity batteries are more expensive.<br><br>

 

Well I had to take the Optima- the highest CCA available for a conventional battery fitting in there was 480- the stocker has 750. I know that the reserve capacity plays a very important role. The higher reserve capacity meaning better vibration resistance... hmm won't fit to my experiences. (Maybe the specs are different over here) Any battery I could get that was in the high classes of vibration resistance actually had a lower reserve cap. than the ones with loweer resistance. <br>The only battery fitting in the RAM that had average vibration characteristics had a capacity of 80Ah and 460CCA and would cost me 178€- the optima with high vibration tolerance, 50AH and 815CCA was 186€. (And it was availlable, the other was on 3 weeks backorder)<br><br>I do not run equipment from the batteries (because there is none), but if I would I agree with going for lots of reserve capacity. <br><br>AlpineRAM

 

[quote author=AlpineRAM link=board=7;threadid=14006;start=15#132470 date=1051465169]<br>I am trying to reduce the overall noise level- I assume that when the batteries get older they first loose their ability to react on very quick changes in voltage. <br>[/quote]<br><br>When batteries fail the internal resistance rises, or a cell shorts. In either case this causes the terminal voltage to drop under load. The ability to react on very quick voltage changes isn't a factor, really. In most cases, its all about voltage drop and average DC voltage applied to power the device under question.<br><br>If you are out to reduce an overall noise problem, you must first determine if the charging system (alternator, battery, and wires) are up to snuff. then look to your audio system itself for grounding or other issues. often, a pair of RCA cables from L and R outputs can create quite an antenna for alternator noise. and if your overall charging system is dirty enough to induce false lockups, then you really do have a systemic problem with your electrical system. <br><br><br> the frequency at which other systems in the electronics demand power, and a battery's ability to react to those demands, does not explain noise problems. If a battery cannot deliver sudden bursts of current then you need to replace it or the wires that connect to it. Most devices have an good abililty to reject noise IF the average DC voltage level that powers them is high enough. Internal resistance of the battery (that is, one that needs to be replaced) or the wires themselves (especially connectors) are good opportunities for improvement. In other words, a good solid electrical system is generally noise free, and if you're experimenting with caps to reduce overall noise, you may have more generic problems to deal with.<br><br><br>the battery IS a capacitor, and its primary purpose is to filter the output of the alternator. After the car starts, the battery contributes NOTHING to the average power demands of the vehicle. All energy comes from the alternator. But, as I say, the battery is a key component, in that it filters the DC output of the alternator and is used to control the voltage regulator.<br><br>However, in certain high pulsed current demanding situations (car audio comes to mind) the use of an additional, smaller capacitor has shown measureable results, in addition to the battery, mostly because the internal impedance of the small cap is lower than that of a new battery. But the best success in this case is never acheived by attaching the capacitor to the battery itself. The practice is to physically mount the capacitor close to the device you intend to improve upon (the audio amp, in this case). This is because the wiring itself is part of the problem. <br><br>noise reduction via filtering, by use of a cap, is best accomplished at the device you wish to improve. put the cap right on your head unit, for example, across the power lead and chassis ground. this should give better results than mounting a cap under the hood. the environmental conditions are better too! But generally speaking, if you have noise present that your stereo system is sensitive to, and that noise is reduced by a cap, then you have other problems that should be solved first. What comes to mind is either alternator/wiring, or grounding problems -- making sure that your stereo system has no ground loops, and a good clean connection to chassis ground. <br><br>Assuming that there are no ground problems in the vehicle, when alternator noise appears on the 12v line, it is because the alternator is being overloaded beyond its noise-free operating point, or the battery is not capable of filtering the pulsating DC output of the alternator. stock alternators are not designed for car audio (no surprise there...) and by far the best results are obtained by some combination of battery, alternator, or wiring upgrades. that is, low output alternators and small wires contribute to noise. you can band-aid the problem with caps, and that might be an inexpensive way to alleviate the symptoms, but it won't remove the cause. bigger alternators and bigger wires are almost always a better answer. Indeed, many a car audio geek hangs an expensive cap on the audio amplifier to control dimming headlights, when it would be far more effective to replace the wiring and (better yet) upgrade the alternator. <br><br>But, again, if you have alternator noise in your stereo system, and your alternator itself is in good condition, and your wiring is not over taxed, you probably have a grounding problem or a ground loop in your stereo system. <br><br>filter caps are effective at smoothing out voltage fluctuations on a wire, but they are most effective if sprinkled thoughout the electrical system attached to the very devices they are designed to improve. for dimming headlights, attach cap to the headlight. the resistance of the connecting wire, combined with the capacitance itself, will form a noise filter. <br><br>But I'm concerned that installing caps is a bandaid to another more systemic problem. a good charging system, wiring, and a good stereo system install will result in no noise problem, even without caps as filters. <br><br>The kind of symptoms you are talking about (window motor noise, false triggers on the lockup clutch, alternator noise, etc.) just sound to me like you have bad wiring or a bad alternator, or a bad battery.

 

Doug: Thanks for your reply. I think that your post explains the problems very good, much better than my english would allow. <br>The problem encountered on some TDIs is that they use a digital voltage regulator that samples the voltage in the system and reacts by increasing or decreasing the field voltage in the alt to achieve correct charging voltage after the IU line. This measuring circuit is quite prone to react on signal noise from other sources when the spike is present during the sample it will react and increase or decrease voltage for the period until the next sample, depending whether it was a valley or a spike. With batteries getting older than 2 years we found quite frequently that looking at the assumed 12V DC in the vehicle we had the standard 14.4V DC average and an oscillation with a frequency around 50.120hz and an amplitude of 3V. Very new batteries did buffer this away, but after a very short span the same problems came back. We found that by placing a rather large cap directly at the battery the oscillations went away. I assume that the capacitor just flattened out the voltage enough to be quite right on point while the regulator sampled (via the direct hot cable from the alt to the battery). The problems that arose due to the low frequency oscillation in the 12V DC system were that we could follow the readings of certain values in the ECU to the same oscillation ( IAT, boost on some models, fuel pressure). <br>I think that this came from the oscillation in the feed voltage of the sensors. <br><br>In these cases we had batteries that tested out good on load tests, clean terminals, a good charging balance and everything seemed right in the electric system, but we had rough idle, slight shudder under load without any apparent reason. The installation of the capacitor set these problems to rest in about 70% of the vehicles concerned. <br><br>AlpineRAM

 

[quote author=AlpineRAM link=board=7;threadid=14006;start=30#134224 date=1051860987]<br>Doug: Thanks for your reply. I think that your post explains the problems very good, much better than my english would allow. AlpineRAM[/quote]<br>If English is your second language, I'm IMPRESSED. I never would have guessed that...

 

no kidding. great English, AlpineRam. And this sounds there there may be a design flaw in the electrical system itself. If your experiments showed that a 2 year old battery started to cause these problems, then I can only conclude one of two things: (1) the stock batteries are cheep, thin-plate high CCA batteries that develop small increases in internal resistance, and/or (2) the electrical system behind the battery is not very robust. <br><br>The case for cheap high-CCA batteries is that they deteriorate quickly, more subject to vibration failures and loose capacity quickly due to high internal resistance. I would really be interested to see if any other batteries performed any better. But without regard to that, it sounds like you're experiements are sound and that you've got a good understanding of what's going on. This just smells like an OEM battery problem -- or are you seeing this on after market matched battery pairs as well?<br><br>Really, 50 Hz with a 3V amplitude is not alternator ripple. But I keep coming back to the fact that hanging a cap across another cap (the battery) is really masking the problems in the battery itself. <br><br>also, the dual parallel battery situation we have is great, but also more prone to battery failure. that is, we're twice as likely to develop battery problems as with only one battery -- simply because the probability of failure is doubled (either battery can cause the other to fail). I just wonder if a production run of batteries might be contributing to this, or if two after-market matched batteries from the same production run would cause the same situation. Does the new spiral technology have this same problem in our vehicles?<br><br>

 

AlpineRam, If the Optima happen to take a dump on you or they end up not being enough for your truck. Go to your local heavy equipment dealer, Caterpillar is reccomended. Get the batteries they sell for the equipment. It cost a little more, about $125 USD here in the states, each. But these batteries are made to take heavy vibration, extended battery drains, multiple recharges, and large CCA's. Most guys never figure on these batteries, but that is all I have ever bought, except for the lawn mower. ;D

 

Well first let me say thanks for the compliments on my english . <br><br>Doug: The cars tested were some batches of VW TDIs and derived cars like the Skoda TDI. <br>On the RAM I do not have a severe alternator ripple or the like. But I do have some signal noise on the APPS. I assume that the voltage coming from the ECU is generated in the ECU and may have some ripples, which make the PCM think that I move the go pedal ( While reading out the CAN bus with an OBD tester with the APPS fixed to a position I get an average of 20% accelerator position, but spikes as high s 28% and lows down to 17%. Since I put in the filter the signal is very stable. <br>I did see some noise on the battery when they went bad, and this lead to some very nasty side effects. I had imprecise shiftpoints, some fluctuations of the TC lockup and the like. The batteries still tested out good on a load tester. (Stock DC batteries, 5 years old) <br>I thought about adding the capacitor as a band aid and a test to find out whether the charging system could be beefed up and increase useable battery life by doing so as in te TDIs I tested. Since I installed the single Optima the overall noise level on the battery posts is negligible (as with the stockers in good shape) - Now I use the old stock batteries in an UPS where they are charged with a 50hz pulsating DC. I can measure and compare the dampening factor of the old batteries and compare them to some new ones with the same specs (but not the same physical dimensions). Preliminary tests against a resistor show that the charging voltage in the UPS looks like a sine wave where the part below the 0 line was mirrored up. So we have an average voltage of 14.4 - but with low levels of 0 and high levels of 18.5V. A test on a new battery in this setup gave a 50hz oscillation with an amplitude of 0.06V, with the old stock batteries we had an amplitude of 1,8V. <br>A load test letting the voltage drop to 9V drawing 40A showed that the old batteries had about 5% less capacity than the new ones. <br>So my conclusion from these results is that the battery is the main noise filter in the truck, and that sometimes the battery may degrade in its capacity as a filter, but be otherwise OK on the standard tests. I can not say whether this is a widespread phenomenon or just a single occurence. And I do not have sufficient data to filter out a certain make or type of batteries to be more or less prone to this type of suspected weakness. <br>The problems described on the TDIs did start at about 24 months ov service with the stock battery, could be solved temporarily by replacing the battery with a new one, but did reoccur afer a service life of about 2 -6 months with the new battery. (Repeatable, whether stock replacement or good aftermarket) - On the TDIs using the capacitor made the problems go away and the usable service life of the battery was increased to an average of more than 48 months. <br><br>bneaves: I shure hope that the Optima will do the trick- I hate spending much money on stuff like this. I have been shopping around in the equipment stores and the biggest battery I could find that would fit in the RAM was rated at 80Ah and 480CCA, the vibration proof variant of it was only 6€ cheaper than the Optima. (And on backorder)<br><br>I hope that the design of the Optima will prove good for the job, and will last as long as the stockers. One more reason for me to buy them was the warranty against damages done by spilled acid that is included in the price of the Optima here. <br>A parts guy told me that the stock batteries for the diesel were availlable over here- but when I asked the price I almost had a heart attack! 495€ +20% sales tax!!! Per unit!<br><br>AlpineRAM