I am currently looking into transmission options. I have been on the phone most of the morning talking to different vendors.

I discussed my HP goals and towing weights as well truck set up with each vendor.

(Just so you know) I am looking for approx 450HP at the crank which should convert to approx 340HP at the wheels. I only tow a 16ft enclosed race trailer @ approx 4k gvw. I am running 4.10 gears and will be installing 315/70-17 tires later this week.
I never tend to own a vehicle for more than about 3-4 years before I am ready for something new.

I talked to John at Suncoast and he agreed that with my tranny in good condition, a VB and TC will hold up fine for what I am looking to do.

I then talked to Clint at ATS. He also agreed that a VB and TC would work fine. He even threw out a number (425HP at the wheels)

At this point I am envisioning the smile on my wife's face when I tell her I am only spending 1500 vs 4000.

Then I called DTT. They were definitely against just a VB and TC. They said that I would eventually loose 3rd gear. They said that it is actually 3rd gear that fails when everybody thinks the TC fails. They want me to buy a whole tranny.

Now, Is this just a sales pitch or is DTT right and Suncoast and ATS wrong?

I don't see my self keeping this truck much longer than another 2-3 years. I am really hoping Dodge will release a true crew cab, and will buy it when available. So, spending the 4000 doesn't seem justifiable.

Worst case scenario, if I buy just a TC and VB and the tranny fails, I am out the cost of the VB and the labor to make the change.

 

i rebuilt my first tq in 1964. i raced them for 12 years. i do not recall ever losing 3rd gear. cars ran low elevens weighed 3600 lbs. all i have done for the last 40 years is build trans., so i have built 1 or 2 of them. the only thing i have seen take out 3rd gear is the 2 metal rings on the stator support eating into the 3rd gear drum. this is usually caused from wear in the 3rd gear drum bushing. maybe these other guys know something i dont. the 3rd gear seal that supposedly blows i have NEVER blown. i have owned nothing but mopar since 1962 all but one autos.

 

If you don't plan on keeping it but for another 2 or 3 years... save your money for the next truck... and get a manual... I don't see a point in putting alot of money into something you know you'll be getting rid of... but that's just me... other opinions may vary!


Tony

 

What did u decide to do?

I'm with ya on the 1500 vs 4000.........My goals are along the same with yours, except i never tow anything....

Keep us posted on your decision......

 

another possible vendor to call and talk to is-goerend brothers-give dave a call and hear what he has to say..

 

I'm with DTT on this one, although I think you'd be further ahead to get your existing tranny done by one of their installers. It should be fewer bucks than a complete transmission.

As a side note, I've seen dozens of torn out 3rd gears on these trucks anywhere past 400 HP to the rear wheels, which you will be at or close to with 450 at the crank.

Rod

 

I had a good talk with fellow member TiminVa this evening, and he concurred also that the TC and VB will hold up to what I want it to do. He recommended a few other slight mods, but his overall opinion was that I will be OK.

I will be meeting up with him next week to do some preliminary pressure testing and then we're off to the races.

I will be getting rid of the EZ and opting for the comp and 275s. Hopefully this will tame my need for power for a little while.

 

Well, if everything is all right with your tranny, all the seals etc and if it's within the "lucky draw" for specs like tolerances etc it can work nicely. If not something will give with a shiftkit, TC and more torque.
A lower stall converter will apply more torque on the input shaft at low pump rpm and therefore increase the effects of any internal leak. A bombed engine will develop more torque at less throttle, also increasing the effects of any internal leak. So an internal leak that has no effect in stock form can have very bad results when changing these parameters (aka bombing the engine and the tranny)- A shift kit or a VB will partially resolve some of these problems by increasing the line pressures and some of the flows. If this is sufficient you'll be happy. If not you'll have to rebuild your tranny, clean all the debris out of everything and replace the parts you already have replaced once.
Bill Kondolay (owner of DTT) wrote an article about this on his own BB.
http://www.dieseltrans.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=193
Personally I feel a v endor should inform you on these riscs, and a buyer should also consider what's in the warranty a supplier of eg a torque converter- if it's only that the TC is not defective in material and workmanship it won't cover the rest of the transmission and not even the TC if it is burned away by slippage due to lack of apply pressure. (It had been up to specs when it was sold and was killed by the environment)
Naturally everybody is quite suspicious when one vendor claims that you'll have to pay three times more than with other vendors to be happy.
Jughead- I don't want to step on your toes, but with gassers getting more power out of much higher revs and the torque coming on at double the rpm of a CTD I feel that the problems you'll run into with a gasser auto can not be compared to the ones with a CTD auto.

Not wanting to bash anybody here, just flinging my 2c

AlpineRAM

DISCLAIMER: This post is in no way intended to badmouth any transmission vendor, nor to disrespect the experiences and opinions of others. And it's not here to start a tranny war.

 

I love my SUNCOAST TC. I have been to there facility in FT Walton Beach, FL. You could eat off the floors that place is so clean. I don't have any experience with the other vendors, but I would go with the majority on this one. I like SUNCOAST too, because it is only a few hours for me to drive there if I need to. I don't have the SC valve body, but one that duplicates what theirs does.

 

I was in you shoes exactly and went through the same steps also, calling all the vendors. I got opinions from all of them. I was then referred to Dave Goerend. Give Dave a call and see what he recommends.

 

I am working with TiminVA and he is getting all the parts from Dave.

 

I've been running with a Protorque Extreme TC and shift kit for the past 3 years and am currently turning 350 rwhp. 30,000 hard miles. (I drive in town a lot. So consider it as 30,000 miles at 1/4 mile runs each.) Seems OK so far. I'd say it depends on how many miles your starting with. If it's relatively low (less that 40-60k) then, my opinion, you should be fine. If your going to do it yourself, I feel it's easier to do a TC and replacement VB. That way you don't have to keep dropping the pan to make adjustments.

Just my $0.02

 

sir you aint stepping on my toes no offense taken. there is a lot out there that i will never know. i have been playing with 2 diesels for about 6 years. not towing a lot. just mashing the motor. 1 should have 400 rear wheel hp but i doubt it. the other ets like it mite have 300?. i rebuilt both trans. both have less than 100k on them but so far i havent been able to break either one. i personnally think heat is the main problem with the dodge trans.
Jughead- I don't want to step on your toes, but with gassers getting more power out of much higher revs and the torque coming on at double the rpm of a CTD I feel that the problems you'll run into with a gasser auto can not be compared to the ones with a CTD auto.

Not wanting to bash anybody here, just flinging my 2c

AlpineRAM

DISCLAIMER: This post is in no way intended to badmouth any transmission vendor, nor to disrespect the experiences and opinions of others. And it's not here to start a tranny war. [/B][/QUOTE]

 

Hi Jughead- I like it that you ain't offended. I think that if you go WOT you have enough line pressure from the throttle valve to let the clutches hold. But if you have a big bad diesel with a touchy setup like comp on 5x5 the torque will come on at really low rpm and with almost no throttle movement. This will change a lot of the parameters- if you read around here most guys with problems describe themselves as just idling around and occasionally mashing it- the others whose trucks don't really know that there is something besides WOT seem to have less transmission troubles.
I second your notion on heat being a major transmission killer- the shiftkits are very good for that since they increase cooler flow. Backing up big 5ers or trailers uphill gives some very toasty temps. Especially with a low stall converter that will push at low rpms the pump won't be able to supply much to the cooler IMHO. What I do see a lot over here is that many autos do upshift to ridiculously high gears for a given speed at light throttle. Most of the time they'd come out at the same rpm with 1 gear lower but wouldn't heat up that much since the gearing is dome mechanically instead of fluid dynamic.
I see a 90 and a torqueflite in your sig- the OD trannies with TC lockup clutches will suffer rather bad in OD lockup at low rpm due to the fact that front clutch, rear clutch, OD clutch and the TC clutch are applied and that at low rpm- combined with slight leakage in all those clutches (natural) and not too much line pressure due to the low rpm of the pump. The clutches will see more torque since the OD is a mechanical disadvantage. Most drivers with stock trannies I know get the habit to drive ightfooted until they are in OD lockup and then accelerate so the lockup does just not disengage. This puts the system to it's ultimate test IMHO.

That's why I think that the leakage stuff written by Bill K is valid.

AlpineRAM

 

maybe what is saving me is a reverse manual valvebody on the 82. the throttle pressure settings are off the scale on the 90 with the 518.