A must read
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...2/131303.shtml

 

The ACLU and others like them, need to wake up. 9/11 will happen again, and who should take the blame, orginizations like the ACLU. I am not saying racial profiling is always a bad thing, it get abused like many other things. You've hear of detectives and psychologists talking to serial murderers to get into there minds. Does this mean if a town/city has a serial murderer loose on its streets, that it can not get a profile of the murderer? I mean lets face it, most serial murderers are white males. We can't be asking questions if a white male has several 55 gallon drums and 2 deep freezers in his garage, that would be racial profiling. As long as they are not being disrespected, untill it is confirmed, as the muslim community the questions. They should understand that a few bad apples have spoiled the tree, and it will just take time. Now once it has been confirmed they are part of the terrorist group, do what you want with that person without quite killing him.
I'm sorry, it just burns me when stuff like this happens, and the ACLU gets stupid. This is like the lawyer getting the murderer off because the store he robbed, did not have his permission to video tape the shooting. I'm done ranting.

 

ramlovingvet,

Thanks for the post. Read the article at it's source, and also it was mentioned on Fox News.

Which begs the question: Who would the terrorists rather see as president, President Bush, or John Kerry.

AM

 

Honestly, I can never tell how "real" a "news looking" site on the internet actually is. Although the story seems a little far fetched to me, the reality is that even if it were 100% accurate you would never see it mentioned on any of the major news outlets with the possible exception of Fox.

In any case I am a firm believer that the additional "security" at our commercial airports is worse than a sad joke. We are regularly shaking down little old ladies and going out of our way NOT to scrutinize men aged 18 to 50 of Arab extraction. Heaven forbid that we should do something that the ACLU would consider racial profiling!

What percentage of the sucessful commercial airline hijackings in the last 20 years were carried out by males of Arab extraction between the ages of 18 and 50? Would you believe that the correct number is 100%? Would you believe that 8 of the FBI's most wanted terrorists are named Mohamed, and of the ones that are not named Mohamed all but six have the name Mohamed among their aliases? Would you believe all but three of them are males of Arab extraction between the ages of 18 and 50? Don't believe me? See for yourself.

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/terrorists/fugitives.htm

I am not suggesting that all Arab males are terrorists, but please, if we are screening for airline hijackers who should we be looking at?

 

The question is, will you get on a jumbo airliner if you saw a bunch of "them" getting on? I wont. I for one will excersize a little bit of my own air port screening. I will get another flight.

I hate flying. I only do it when I have to travel to a jobsite. And that is usually on MD-80's or smaller. You can bet your buttons that I look at ever person getting the planes I ride on. I havent seen any suspicous people yet, but if I do, I will say something or get my flight changed.

 

but most terrorists are Arab males. I'll suggest it, because I call it like I see it.

 

Wow ... if they do another stateside airliner, us gambling destinations will be hurtin for certain.

 

Well, I'd really be interested in the outcome of the investigations that were described in that ladie's article. Were these folks really a band or not?
I think that the screening for "suspicious races" etc is a little difficult. First of all I think that these guys would be clever enough to make people who don't know about it carry the parts of the bombs- and those people wouldn't fit the profiling scheme- a grandma conveying a parcel to her college-going nephew from a friend etc...
On the other hand everybody does racial profiling all the day. It's just quite ingrained in people to feel closer to others who have the same colour, age, accent etc. And to be a little defensive against others.
Since 9/11 over here all passengers boarding flights are checked with multiple detectors. Metal, neutrino emission and some more. No profiling to it. You have to be at the airport some minutes earlier than before these measures. (This is the theory, but practically those guys who do the checks aren't too motivated)

AlpineRAM

 

As usual for Newsmax- total fabrication- here is the article by a pilot rebutting the whole thing- his name is Patrick Smith, and he is a moderate to conservative guy with a book called "ask the pilot"- the newsmax article, as usual, is a waste of bandwidth for gullible folks that WANT to believe everything newsmax says- here is an excerpt from the article, it is too long to post the whole thing, debunks her story step by step.

Aside from matters of politics and general opinion, is Jacobsen playing fast and loose with the facts? There appear to be embellishments in her original tale.

Aboard flight 327, as she, her husband and several passengers and crew are having their nervous breakdowns, comes this instance of B-movie tension: "[The flight attendant] leaned over and quietly told my husband there were federal air marshals sitting all around us. She asked him not to tell anyone and explained that she could be in trouble for giving out that information. She then continued serving drinks."


Are we to believe not only that an airline professional was unwise enough to reveal such a thing, but that a group of marshals -- not one, not two, but several -- having gotten word that a covey of Arabs were flying to LAX, were on hand to trail and observe them? That's some tight logistical planning. Are we following Middle Easterners through airports now? If so, how does that work at Kennedy International, I wonder, where foreign airliners carrying thousands of passengers arrive daily from Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Morocco, the UAE and elsewhere? That's a lot of dry runs, and there's no love lost, after all, between Muslim radicals and the governments who own and operate these airlines -- Pakistan International, Saudi Arabian, EgyptAir, Royal Jordanian, etc. Such subtleties are lost on that segment of the public who'd prefer a more digestible ****-and-bull yarn from high above the American heartland. As for those wacky airlines from abroad, why not simply ban them from American airspace?
Today's Daypass sponsored by Scribner Ask The Pilot: Everything You Need To Know About Air Travel

By Patrick Smith

Riverhead Books
288 pages
Nonfiction

Clearly I'm in a fit of envy over Jacobsen's cheap grab at notoriety. I've got a book out and could use some publicity. Here, let me give it a try.

Late last summer I boarded a nonstop flight from Dubai, United Arab Emirates, to Newark, N.J. After taking my seat, I noticed that well over a hundred of my fellow passengers looked to be Muslims! Yes, that's the same faith adhered to by those dastardly perpetrators who knocked down our Trade Center and demolished part of the Pentagon. Not only that, but our aircraft, a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777, was registered and maintained by a company headquartered in a predominantly Muslim nation! What if the cargo holds had been stuffed full of anthrax or TNT by unscrupulous terrorists back in Kuala Lumpur!

Several passengers wore conservative Islamic dress -- men in white dishdashas; women concealed in full black burqa. Our plane contained a Muslim prayer enclave (for possible use by terrorists preparing for the throes of martydrom), and the seatback video displayed a graphic of the qibla, showing real-time distance and heading to Mecca. En route toward New York, dozens of Muslim passengers were seen socializing and using the lavatories, in some cases blatantly ignoring the illuminated seat-belt sign!

To my relief and utter astonishment, we landed safely (and on time).

Jacobsen simmers her own account in gratuitous detail and melodrama. It plays like a Hollywood disaster film -- the young child, the would-be villain who smiles innocently in a moment of spooky foreshadowing. We're waiting for the gunshots, the fireball from the lavatory, the marshals jumping up to yell, "Hit the floor!"

That her story concludes in such a painfully boring anticlimax ought to be the very point, and in the final few pages she still has time for a constructive moral, the clear lesson being not the potentials of global terror, but the dangers of our own preconceptions and imagination. Instead, she pulls a vile U-turn and chooses to bait us with racist innuendo and fearmongering. Nothing happened, but something might have happened, and so it serves us to remain frightened and draconian at all costs, furthering our nation's pathetic embrace of maximum paranoia.

Jacobsen's kicker: "So the question is ... Do I think these men were musicians? I'll let you decide. But I wonder, if 19 terrorists can learn to fly airplanes into buildings, couldn't 14 terrorists learn to play instruments?"

Excuse me? She concludes, as did the radio host Tuesday morning, by insinuating that the men were terrorists, despite every shred of evidence, not to mention common sense, arguing to the contrary. And with that her article, and her credibility with it, plummets from merely sensationalist to inexcusably offensive.

http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/...95/index2.html

 

Here is another poster from another site describing "lessons learned" when logically trying to prevent another attack:

In terms of lessons learned, here's what I'd argue we should conclude:

1. Beware of communal reinforcement.
2. Beware of confirmation bias.
3. Beware of ad hoc hypotheses.
4. Statistically rare events can overshadow more common events paradoxically due to their rarity.
5. Always be skeptical of anecdotal evidence particularly when it attempts to generalize.
6. Avoid engaging the fallacy of hasty generalization as well as the fallacy of composition.

http://skepdic.com/comreinf.html
http://skepdic.com/confirmbias.html
http://skepdic.com/adhoc.html
http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...alization.html
http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...mposition.html

Engaging in any of the above make it EASIER for terrorists to gain advantage, not harder- any law enforcement officer/investigator/scientist will agree with the above.

 

News max is not the only ones that ran it. But gee i bet if Moore said it it would be the truth Huh?

 

Never said I get my info from Moore- but you certainly get yours from Newsmax- after all, you posted it, right?

Here is an interview of an air marshall- that SAYS THAT ANNIE JACOBSON WAS THE BIGGEST THREAT ON THE AIRPLANE LOL

Reports KFI News:

Undercover federal air marshals on board a June 29 Northwest airlines flight from Detroit to LAX identified themselves after a passenger, "overreacted," to a group of middle-eastern men on board, federal officials and sources have told KFI NEWS.

The passenger, later identified as Annie Jacobsen, was in danger of panicking other passengers and creating a larger problem on the plane, according to a source close to the secretive federal protective service. ...

"The lady was overreacting,” said the source. “A flight attendant was told to tell the passenger to calm down; that there were air marshals on the plane."
The report also says that Ms. Jacobsen's husband Kevin, also aboard, told KFI News that after the flight he approached a man he thought was an air marshal. The marshal told Kevin, "You made me nervous," to which Kevin replied, "I was freaking out."

" 'We don’t freak out in situations like this,' " the air marshal responded.

Ms. Jacobsen's panicky actions so alarmed the marshals, says KFI's story, that
... the air marshals on the flight were partially concerned Jacobsen’s actions could have been an effort by terrorists or attackers to create a disturbance on the plane to force the agents to identify themselves.

Air marshals' only tactical advantage on a flight is their anonymity, the source said, and Jacobsen could have put the entire flight in danger.
The marshals were wondering whether Ms. Jacobsen's actions were in fact purposely designed to force them to reveal themselves.

The plane was met by federal agents at its gate after landing, but
Los Angeles [FBI] field office spokeswoman Cathy Viray said it’s significant the alarm on the flight came from a passenger.

"We have to take all calls seriously, but the passenger was worried, not the flight crew or the federal air marshals," she said. "The complaint did not stem from the flight crew."
Just as I said all along they would, federal agents verified the identity of the band, verified their engagement at the casino, monitored the performance and,
"We also went to the hotel, determined they had checked into the hotel," [Air Marshals spokesman Dave] Adams said. Each of the men were checked through a series of databases and watch-lists with negative results, he said.

 

Sounds like this whole thing is another internet hoax designed to play on the emotions of the gullible- this from the same article posted above-



More and more I am starting to wonder whether Annie Jacobsen's "Terror in the Skies, Again?" article is really a sandbag job actually intended to drive up traffic count to Women's Wall Street, for whom she writes. In short, maybe the piece was one well-executed con job: had you heard of WWS before? Neither had I.

Also, I now retract my previous claim that in fact "nothing actually happened aboard Flight 327. It's now obvious that something did: an American husband and wife panicked for no reason whatever and potentially put the flight in jeopardy.

In fact, I now think I was much too generous and tolerant of her in my previous posts. She should be deeply ashamed and should say so in her next piece on WWS. But I'm not holding my breath.


Funny- on El Al airlines, who has the most reason to be paranoid, don't you think, the behaviors described by Annie Jacobson seem to have no effect on thier passengers, who are predominately Isreali- so why does effect Annie so much?

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...ry=11754#c0179

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...ry=11754#c0180

 

hoax, fact, or fiction, whatever the case may be. if i'm on a plane and a gang of muslims, americans, russians, or any other race are congregating at the crappers and passing packages back and forth before they go in or after they come out i for one am going to jump to the "this can't be good" conclusion.

 

"For no reason whatsoever?" Every time I'm on an airplane since 9/11 I spend the entire time scoping out improvised weapons, how best to attack anyone who tries anything fishy, identifying possible allies, and so on. I'm just glad I don't have to fly very often, I'd be a complete basket-case.

I used to sleep.