Still think America is not going downhill?
05-03-2004, 09:28 AM
#1
It's my pot and I'll stir it if I want to. If you're not careful, I'll stir your's as well!
Thread Starter
Still think America is not going downhill?
Have just read an article that may shock some of you Americans that still think that America is not being betrayed from within. You can read the full article at:
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=38304
Here is the first two paragraphs:
WASHINGTON -- A top textbook consultant shaping classroom education on Islam in American public schools recently worked for a school funded and controlled by the Saudi government, which propagates a rigidly anti-Western strain of Islam, a WorldNetDaily investigation reveals.
The consultant, Susan L. Douglass, has also praised Pakistan's madrassa schools as "proud symbols of learning," even after the U.S. government blamed them for fueling the rise of the Taliban and al-Qaida.
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=38304
Here is the first two paragraphs:
WASHINGTON -- A top textbook consultant shaping classroom education on Islam in American public schools recently worked for a school funded and controlled by the Saudi government, which propagates a rigidly anti-Western strain of Islam, a WorldNetDaily investigation reveals.
The consultant, Susan L. Douglass, has also praised Pakistan's madrassa schools as "proud symbols of learning," even after the U.S. government blamed them for fueling the rise of the Taliban and al-Qaida.
05-03-2004, 11:34 AM
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I fail to see your point, and that is not to say that I agree with what she does. She is 'a practicing muslim' according to the article, so what is one to expect. On the other hand the word "funding" implies that she is doing it for money too or as many would say 'good old fashioned capitalism'.
I guess the only real question remains why does our school system allow this kind of influence? The easy answer is "the liberals" but it is not the correct answer. It is the school system, run by a bunch of people who wake up one morning and decide out of boredom or some need of recognition, or power quest, to run for a position on the local school board, without any qualifications whatsoever to make decisions in the education filed. Arguably many may be well intended, but that hardly makes them qualified. The net rsult is that the American school system "sucks" and is second rate to most other developed countries. You see, too many people believe that the schools are there to instill certain values to our children, morals, religion, patriotism, etc. and of course as individuals we all have different goals along those lines for our kids, whereas all that should come from HOME, from the PARENTS, not the schools. The schools should impart only one thing knowledge, because through knowledge all the values given to children by their parents, they can put in the perspective of their own lives.
Make no mistake, if our education system will not change radicaly and soon we will slowly but steadily loose our proeminence in the world.
Peter
I guess the only real question remains why does our school system allow this kind of influence? The easy answer is "the liberals" but it is not the correct answer. It is the school system, run by a bunch of people who wake up one morning and decide out of boredom or some need of recognition, or power quest, to run for a position on the local school board, without any qualifications whatsoever to make decisions in the education filed. Arguably many may be well intended, but that hardly makes them qualified. The net rsult is that the American school system "sucks" and is second rate to most other developed countries. You see, too many people believe that the schools are there to instill certain values to our children, morals, religion, patriotism, etc. and of course as individuals we all have different goals along those lines for our kids, whereas all that should come from HOME, from the PARENTS, not the schools. The schools should impart only one thing knowledge, because through knowledge all the values given to children by their parents, they can put in the perspective of their own lives.
Make no mistake, if our education system will not change radicaly and soon we will slowly but steadily loose our proeminence in the world.
Peter
05-03-2004, 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by MCMLV
It is the school system, run by a bunch of people who wake up one morning and decide out of boredom or some need of recognition, or power quest, to run for a position on the local school board, without any qualifications whatsoever to make decisions in the education filed. Arguably many may be well intended, but that hardly makes them qualified.
It is the school system, run by a bunch of people who wake up one morning and decide out of boredom or some need of recognition, or power quest, to run for a position on the local school board, without any qualifications whatsoever to make decisions in the education filed. Arguably many may be well intended, but that hardly makes them qualified.
05-03-2004, 06:50 PM
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From the article:
"Christians and Jews repeatedly are labeled as infidels and enemies of Islam who should not be befriended or emulated, and are referred to in eighth-grade textbooks as 'apes and pigs,'"
So, they have a private school (as I understand it) for Muslims who have, most likely, immigrated from the Middle East. My question is, if Christians and Jews are bad people and shouldn't be associated with, THEN WHY DID THEY IMMIGRATE TO THE U.S.A.?????
"Also, he spoke at a 2001 Islamic conference with several Muslim extremists, including an unindicted co-conspirator in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, according to a speakers schedule for the event obtained by WND."
That tells me about these peoples' credentials!
"However, its [Houghton Mifflin] editorial director for school social studies told a Muslim website in 1999 that it's also allowed CIE to critique its coverage of Christian history, and to add its view of what the Crusades were like for the Muslims."
Ok, the Muslim view of the Crusades...I'll give them that. But since when did Muslims become the historical authority on Christianity?
"And its "Connections to Today," which is the most widely used world history book in the country, instructs students that jihad is an "inner struggle to achieve spiritual peace," according to the Minneapolis Star Tribune."
Yeah, I'm sure having an inner struggle right now...shall I call it my own little jihad? Words can have different meanings...and other words can have much more elaborate meanings than a few generalized words.
"Also, CIE has helped write supplemental teachers materials that engage children in entertaining Muslim role-playing activities in the class. Parents say they make the study of Christianity and other religions seem dull by comparison."
You don't suppose that includes chopping off your fellow student's right hand when he's caught stealing does it?
"One local parent, Jen Schroeder, told WND she worries California may be unwittingly producing more John Walker Lindhs. Lindh, who joined the Taliban, was a product of San Francisco public schools."
And there's your proof! Americans who are not educated in morals or conscious thought are gullible! If the education system had any common sense they would have set up the curriculum so each of the religions was given an equal amount of time and enthusiasm. I'm all for freedom of religion. I'm all for learning about other religions. What I won't stand for is ANY religion that tears my country apart!
"Christians and Jews repeatedly are labeled as infidels and enemies of Islam who should not be befriended or emulated, and are referred to in eighth-grade textbooks as 'apes and pigs,'"
So, they have a private school (as I understand it) for Muslims who have, most likely, immigrated from the Middle East. My question is, if Christians and Jews are bad people and shouldn't be associated with, THEN WHY DID THEY IMMIGRATE TO THE U.S.A.?????
"Also, he spoke at a 2001 Islamic conference with several Muslim extremists, including an unindicted co-conspirator in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, according to a speakers schedule for the event obtained by WND."
That tells me about these peoples' credentials!
"However, its [Houghton Mifflin] editorial director for school social studies told a Muslim website in 1999 that it's also allowed CIE to critique its coverage of Christian history, and to add its view of what the Crusades were like for the Muslims."
Ok, the Muslim view of the Crusades...I'll give them that. But since when did Muslims become the historical authority on Christianity?
"And its "Connections to Today," which is the most widely used world history book in the country, instructs students that jihad is an "inner struggle to achieve spiritual peace," according to the Minneapolis Star Tribune."
Yeah, I'm sure having an inner struggle right now...shall I call it my own little jihad? Words can have different meanings...and other words can have much more elaborate meanings than a few generalized words.
"Also, CIE has helped write supplemental teachers materials that engage children in entertaining Muslim role-playing activities in the class. Parents say they make the study of Christianity and other religions seem dull by comparison."
You don't suppose that includes chopping off your fellow student's right hand when he's caught stealing does it?
"One local parent, Jen Schroeder, told WND she worries California may be unwittingly producing more John Walker Lindhs. Lindh, who joined the Taliban, was a product of San Francisco public schools."
And there's your proof! Americans who are not educated in morals or conscious thought are gullible! If the education system had any common sense they would have set up the curriculum so each of the religions was given an equal amount of time and enthusiasm. I'm all for freedom of religion. I'm all for learning about other religions. What I won't stand for is ANY religion that tears my country apart!
05-03-2004, 07:49 PM
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I don't know anymore how to reply Stan. I watch as my country is torn apart and made a mockery of by people that come here and speak of the Ill's of our nation, while they ignore the travesty of their own nations. It seems that this nation must be reduced to whatever level that someone perceives it should be so that they can feel equal. We in the U.S. are to a great degree blessed with many wonderful opportunities as well as a beautiful countryside for the most part. we must learn that the opportunity and the right to enjoy the landscape came at a great price to us and our for fathers. We must learn that the freedom to be an American can not be cast to the wind in the name of allowing someone to commit treasonous acts and cover their implications with the freedoms paid for by patriotic Americans true to her longevity and well being. It amazes me to see people that would fight with all they have if their families were threatened, turn their backs on those that threaten their country. I think it is high time that we speak to these people that come to this great land and say to them you are no longer welcome to come and speak your mind if those words threaten and promote uprising in our country. We will in fact need to show them the true greatness of this nation and politely yet forcefully demand that these Poe;Le leave this great nation if they can not show a proper respect. The greatest lesson that we need to re learn is that our freedoms were earned and paid for by the blood spilled upon these soils by the patriots that have gone before us. Until the world is filled with people that can have a common goal of freedom, the prices paid in American lives will continue to be paid. No amount of sticking our head in the sand or turning the other check will forgive that debt. We must become better neighbors to our north American sister countries and they in turn must also become better neighbors as the evil that threatens to besiege this country will not stop at these borders. our alliance must become strong within the continent or we will all lose. In short we as Americans must be willing to assert our rights to place simple rules upon our society. We must accept that these rules will need to restrain some activities and make illegal those activities that would undermine the values and well being of this Nation and her people.We must look to our rights to be a free nation as equal too and greater than the rights of our enemies to destroy those freedoms. We need to tell our young people that it is O.K. to be patriotic and that in fact without that patriotism that we would be here to choose. Above all we must be able to look those that would destroy these rights that we will fight them with all the resources we can muster and mean it. There are a thousand things more to be said here but no one more important than to say. We must again walk walk hand in with our lord and father and ask for his wisdom to guide us through the troubled times ahead
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05-04-2004, 05:32 AM
#9
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If you look at the reactions this article has triggered it seems to me that the system that allows free speech and the liberties to word even unpopular opinions is working well. If the US were to folow what blackjack says it would result in a reduction of liberty, you might even call it censorship. I think it's good that htese ideas are brought out in the open so that they can be in the competition for the hearts of the people. The diversity of ideas and methods of living together is what sets the USA apart from other countries.
I don't think it's bad that muslims may promote their religion themselves. I think that the results should make christians think why they don't have that kind of success with the youth. IMHO mainly because you won't find as many devout and motivated christians to propagate their beliefs.
I don't think that your country will be torn apart by muslims. It might be damaged by radicals. But I don't think it makes much of a difference what they stand for. We've had radical "christians", "muslims", "socialists", "communists", "patriots" etc over here in Europe and all did the same. They tried to promote terror. In depths analysis of the movement of personals in these groups revealed that very many of these terrorists had a "carreer" across several different organisations. (Even with conflicting motives like communist and **** movements). My conclusion is that these groups are there as a meeting point for people who like to hear loud booming noises and love to see body parts flying around. Right now "muslim" is fashionable for them since it is fought and regarded as an abomination by the majority.
The true problem IMHO is intolerance. Intolerance on both sides that creates friction and violence, and that does also create a history of violence that both parties will regard as unforgiveable and will make them want to get even. Look at the middle east- the revenge for the revenge for the revenge for the revenge for the revenge for the revenge for the revenge for the revenge for the revenge..............
Modern christianity is also talking about forgiving, tolerance, open heartednes and kindnes. Would this just apply to dedicated members of the own group?
Just my 2c
AlpineRAM
I don't think it's bad that muslims may promote their religion themselves. I think that the results should make christians think why they don't have that kind of success with the youth. IMHO mainly because you won't find as many devout and motivated christians to propagate their beliefs.
I don't think that your country will be torn apart by muslims. It might be damaged by radicals. But I don't think it makes much of a difference what they stand for. We've had radical "christians", "muslims", "socialists", "communists", "patriots" etc over here in Europe and all did the same. They tried to promote terror. In depths analysis of the movement of personals in these groups revealed that very many of these terrorists had a "carreer" across several different organisations. (Even with conflicting motives like communist and **** movements). My conclusion is that these groups are there as a meeting point for people who like to hear loud booming noises and love to see body parts flying around. Right now "muslim" is fashionable for them since it is fought and regarded as an abomination by the majority.
The true problem IMHO is intolerance. Intolerance on both sides that creates friction and violence, and that does also create a history of violence that both parties will regard as unforgiveable and will make them want to get even. Look at the middle east- the revenge for the revenge for the revenge for the revenge for the revenge for the revenge for the revenge for the revenge for the revenge..............
Modern christianity is also talking about forgiving, tolerance, open heartednes and kindnes. Would this just apply to dedicated members of the own group?
Just my 2c
AlpineRAM
05-04-2004, 07:09 AM
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Mexstan,
Again thank you for your post. Knowlage is power and access to these kinds of things and the insuing discussion sets us apart from much of the world.
Alpine,
I couldn't agree more. I would however like to add somthing, feedom of speach does not give you the right to yell FIRE in a crowded theater. I understand the value of our libertys but this does not inclued being at liberty to promote violent acts against inocent people..............even the infidels
This practice has risen to the point where it must be eliminated one way or another.
The pendulum is swinging back and one would be wise to avoid being in it's path.
Tengu
Again thank you for your post. Knowlage is power and access to these kinds of things and the insuing discussion sets us apart from much of the world.
Alpine,
I couldn't agree more. I would however like to add somthing, feedom of speach does not give you the right to yell FIRE in a crowded theater. I understand the value of our libertys but this does not inclued being at liberty to promote violent acts against inocent people..............even the infidels
This practice has risen to the point where it must be eliminated one way or another.The pendulum is swinging back and one would be wise to avoid being in it's path.
Tengu
05-04-2004, 07:35 AM
#12
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Tengu: I agree on the part of yelling Fire- and there are already laws against promoting murder AFAIK in the US. (I'm no lawyer, my "knowledge" about that comes from watching Perry Mason 
)
I think the pendulum analogy can only work in a society of free speech. When you censor you will make the pendulum jerk around violently and it's path won't be predictable anymore.
Due to the freedom of speech you can find out what this persons views and therfore actions are- you can oppose early. If there is censorship they will go underground and prepare and catch a majority unaware of what has been a'brewing.
I think that the war in former Yugoslavia was mainly a result of the "lid being held on the pot" for very long. Under the old regime any kind of critizism against the politics was forbidden- and the pressure built up. When released there were the massacres of Srebrenica, Vukovar etc. And even those were kept secret as long as possible....
Over here we do have lots of muslims living and working. The kids aren't radical, and when they get to know local kids and make friends with them they won't listen to anybody who declares non-muslims inferior anymore... I think that the relative peace we have for the last 50 years in Austria can be attributed to a combination of free speech and tolerance. (That's what kept it, the joint efforts of the allied in WW2 made it possible to start it)
AlpineRAM
)I think the pendulum analogy can only work in a society of free speech. When you censor you will make the pendulum jerk around violently and it's path won't be predictable anymore.
Due to the freedom of speech you can find out what this persons views and therfore actions are- you can oppose early. If there is censorship they will go underground and prepare and catch a majority unaware of what has been a'brewing.
I think that the war in former Yugoslavia was mainly a result of the "lid being held on the pot" for very long. Under the old regime any kind of critizism against the politics was forbidden- and the pressure built up. When released there were the massacres of Srebrenica, Vukovar etc. And even those were kept secret as long as possible....
Over here we do have lots of muslims living and working. The kids aren't radical, and when they get to know local kids and make friends with them they won't listen to anybody who declares non-muslims inferior anymore... I think that the relative peace we have for the last 50 years in Austria can be attributed to a combination of free speech and tolerance. (That's what kept it, the joint efforts of the allied in WW2 made it possible to start it)
AlpineRAM
05-04-2004, 09:33 AM
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I agree with Peter.
The foundation of a youth's relationship with Christ should be built at HOME. It's the parents job to build the foundation, and provide a loving, Christlike atmosphere for them to grow up in. Thats all a parent can do is be the primary "see planter". Its up to the child to make the "decision", or take the next step.
Its not the schools job to do any of this. And if this parents would do what I described above, then no "jihad" preachin, son-of-a-gun under the sun would be able to sway thier beliefs.
Thats whats wrong with the kids today. Its not the schools, Its the foundations that they stand on. Too many kids are standing on cracked, busted, or no foundations at all.
As for me and my family, we will serve the Lord. I will give my children a rock, solid foundation to stand on. One with 2 loving, parents who love the Lord, and try thier best to walk in his footsteps to please Him.
Phillip
The foundation of a youth's relationship with Christ should be built at HOME. It's the parents job to build the foundation, and provide a loving, Christlike atmosphere for them to grow up in. Thats all a parent can do is be the primary "see planter". Its up to the child to make the "decision", or take the next step.
Its not the schools job to do any of this. And if this parents would do what I described above, then no "jihad" preachin, son-of-a-gun under the sun would be able to sway thier beliefs.
Thats whats wrong with the kids today. Its not the schools, Its the foundations that they stand on. Too many kids are standing on cracked, busted, or no foundations at all.
As for me and my family, we will serve the Lord. I will give my children a rock, solid foundation to stand on. One with 2 loving, parents who love the Lord, and try thier best to walk in his footsteps to please Him.
Phillip
05-04-2004, 09:56 AM
#14
It's my pot and I'll stir it if I want to. If you're not careful, I'll stir your's as well!
Thread Starter
Very interesting replies. Now maybe I can throw some fuel on the fire. Will try and keep it short.
One reason America became such a great country is because of tolerance and also trying to 'do the right thing'. Another reason is because your founding fathers understood the value of the Christian religion and made that a fundamental or basic part of the country as a whole. They trusted fully in God and Jesus Christ. Today unfortunately, all too many of your politicians, lawyers and do gooders have turned their backs on the the God that your country was founded upon. Just as the Hebrews did in the old testament - and paid the price for their actions. This is why I keep on harping on the fact that America is being eroded from within. Your foundation stones are being removed one by one.
Now I am going to say a few things that hopefully will not offend anyone. The Islamic religion that is creeping into the States does NOT worship the same God that America was founded upon. The Islamic religion is NOT a religion of peace or tolerance. The Koran plainly states that EVERYBODY must be converted or die by the sword. If necessary I can provide quotes from the Koran to support what I have stated. The agenda of the Muslins is to take over the entire world and America is presently directly in their sights. They have also sworn to eradicate all Jews and the Christian religion. This is not my opinion, as this agenda is openly available. The media avoid this like the plague.
America is under attack like never before in it's history. The American dollar stands a very real chance of becoming almost worthless in the near future. Unfortunately too many of you are sitting on your hands and allowing this to happen. The media is just one of the insidious inside enemy chipping away at your foundations. One reason I started this thread was to demonstrate how insidiously the Islamic religion is creeping up on you. I could give you many more examples but what good would it do? Most of you are blind and deaf to the destruction of your country. Most of you view war as an enemy coming across your borders with guns and attacking you. Not in this war. The enemy is already across your borders and well established in the depths of America. All I can do is whisper a warning or two in posts such as this.
It truly saddens me to see a great country such as America going downhill, faster and faster. What are you Americans reading this post going to do about turning the slide around?
One reason America became such a great country is because of tolerance and also trying to 'do the right thing'. Another reason is because your founding fathers understood the value of the Christian religion and made that a fundamental or basic part of the country as a whole. They trusted fully in God and Jesus Christ. Today unfortunately, all too many of your politicians, lawyers and do gooders have turned their backs on the the God that your country was founded upon. Just as the Hebrews did in the old testament - and paid the price for their actions. This is why I keep on harping on the fact that America is being eroded from within. Your foundation stones are being removed one by one.
Now I am going to say a few things that hopefully will not offend anyone. The Islamic religion that is creeping into the States does NOT worship the same God that America was founded upon. The Islamic religion is NOT a religion of peace or tolerance. The Koran plainly states that EVERYBODY must be converted or die by the sword. If necessary I can provide quotes from the Koran to support what I have stated. The agenda of the Muslins is to take over the entire world and America is presently directly in their sights. They have also sworn to eradicate all Jews and the Christian religion. This is not my opinion, as this agenda is openly available. The media avoid this like the plague.
America is under attack like never before in it's history. The American dollar stands a very real chance of becoming almost worthless in the near future. Unfortunately too many of you are sitting on your hands and allowing this to happen. The media is just one of the insidious inside enemy chipping away at your foundations. One reason I started this thread was to demonstrate how insidiously the Islamic religion is creeping up on you. I could give you many more examples but what good would it do? Most of you are blind and deaf to the destruction of your country. Most of you view war as an enemy coming across your borders with guns and attacking you. Not in this war. The enemy is already across your borders and well established in the depths of America. All I can do is whisper a warning or two in posts such as this.
It truly saddens me to see a great country such as America going downhill, faster and faster. What are you Americans reading this post going to do about turning the slide around?
05-04-2004, 10:06 AM
#15
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Originally posted by Mexstan
.
The Islamic religion that is creeping into the States does NOT worship the same God that America was founded upon. The Islamic religion is NOT a religion of peace or tolerance. The Koran plainly states that EVERYBODY must be converted or die by the sword. If necessary I can provide quotes from the Koran to support what I have stated.
.
The Islamic religion that is creeping into the States does NOT worship the same God that America was founded upon. The Islamic religion is NOT a religion of peace or tolerance. The Koran plainly states that EVERYBODY must be converted or die by the sword. If necessary I can provide quotes from the Koran to support what I have stated.
AlpineRAM