I-40 can knock your fillings out. I think it was Liddy that said speed does not kill, but differential speed sure will. 130 is a bit excessive, how is the braking ability on the Police version? If it were life threatening I would say ok. However, those speeds can cause you to close very quickly. Use your lights please.

 

For some reason, administrator I think I haqve more experience at this than you do. When I started we had the Ford LTDs withh the 460s and the Plymouth Fury with the 440 and the Impalas with the 454s. The muscle car era. During my young and stupid days I stretched out my unit more than once out on the back highways and freeways at 3AM. All it would have taken was one small mishap to cause complete devastation of myself and anybody around me. So come on, give me ONE good reason for that speed. And, I know of no law enforcement training in the United States that includes instruction in this kind of driving. I love a good discussion. Don't wait too long, I don't want to miss my morning donut.

 

Lets see. Active shooter, officer under fire, chasing a murderer or dangerous criminal... etc. etc. etc. It's happens routinely and on a daily basis all over the country. The supreme court has upheld such actions as appropriate under certain circumstances. While those circumstance don't occur often, they DO occur. If you don't believe it's appropriate under ANY circumstance, then you should take your case and prove it in the high court. Otherwise, you're in the minority.

Apparently you haven't been all over the United States If the training didn't exist, then that kind of driving wouldn't be allowed under the circumstances I described above.

Aww, well isn't that special. Wouldn't want to take you away from your daily heart killer. I personally don't eat them because I actually care about staying fit enough to be able to go home after my shift. Interesting concept.

 

Tell you what, I am a law enforcement instructor. I'll do some research tomorrow when I get to work and let you know who instructs it. I can only imagine the liabilities would be so high that no one would even want to touch it. I'll get back with ya.

 

Can we not have disagreements anymore without personal attacks? Dang, that is why I come to this site is NOT to have everybody bickering and name calling over stuff that doesn't matter at the end of the day.

I would say there are VERY FEW reasons for anyone to be driving that fast. It doesn't matter if one life is in danger if you in turn as a LEO put EVERY life on the highway in danger to get there. I understand about it being a brotherhood, and believe me I would do everything in my power to get to a life-threatening situation that involved my family, but I do them no good dead.

Back to the original point of the post, I am glad to see that people are held accountable for their actions, regardless of who they are. It doesn't happen near enough these days.

 

There are a number of major law enforcement agencies that teach this stuff on closed courses. Some of it includes J-turns and the like, all the way up to high speed pursuit driving, rolling road blocks, pit maneuver etc. Feel free to research though.

If you're going to chase at high speed, IMO, the liability would be high without such training. Who would dare let someone drive in such a manner without having trained them?

 

That is the heart of the problem Bearwhiz. The pendulum is starting to swing because of liabliity.

Is it cheaper to let him run and have a 3rd party injured or pay for a crown vics LFQ damage?

 

I'm not JUST talking about one life being in danger. Many times if an LEO is under fire, then others are in danger as well. Take these mass shootings of the last few months. How fast do we go to get there? There are a lot of factors that play into that such as road condition, traffic etc. Not all calls are the same and not every response is the same. In addition, if we get there too slow, they say our response time sucked and it costs lives because of it. If it's too fast, then we're crazy and shouldn't be driving that way. I'm not talking about an idiot doing 130 because he's late for an event. I'm talking about driving at high speed to save lives. Do I want to go home at the end of shift? Of course. That is where the term due regard comes in.

 

I guess if we had the highway system and the lane discipline like they do in Europe ... we wouldn't even have this problem. Once you get used to the higher speeds you tend to pay much closer attention and look farther ahead to the dangers of the road.

Cheers,
PISTOL

 

This is a good discussion. I like a good discussion. I learn from them. I am not and will not side with anyone but I like to learn from everyone.

This is my take on it. When I got started in the fire service I had to take an initial basic class that covered the most basic, common sense kind of things that we would be encountering. The class started with safety. The instructor was a very good instructor that had way more years in the fire service than I had even been alive! He said a couple things that I think are all you need to know when it comes to a situation like this. I am not comparing fire and police as these can be applied to anyone in anything they do.

Number one was risk vs. reward. What are you risking for what you are attempting to save? Is what you are attempting to save worth what you are going to risk to do it? This can eliminated a lot of danger from a job or task if you ask it and stick to it.

Number two was the order of safety and people. Its I, WE, THEM and in that order. "I" is of course ME! Dont do anything that can obviously harm yourself. "WE" is my group or my partner that is working with me. Once I have established there will be little to no danger to "I" then "I" can do what needs to be done for "WE." "THEM" is the civilians. The people in the burning building, being held at gun point or whatever situation that need your help. Once I establish there is no danger to "I" and "WE" then we can do what we can for "THEM."

Can this apply to law enforcement? Teach me something guys. I really liked this class because of its basic common sense approach to a lot of everyday life stuff.

 

Good post DmaxEter. I'm of similar training.

I too appreciate level-headed, informative responses from those with the most recent training, . . . . without them going thermonuclear with contempt.

 

No, it can't.

Can you take a guy into custody with a firehose?

 

No, but we can kill or subdue him with one.


J/K,


Tim

 

Heck yeah you can! You can also subdue a big angry Rotwiler with one! Ask me how I know! Hated to do it but dang, that question went through my head again, risk vs reward. It was me getting chewed up or him getting dirt rolled. I think I made the wiser choice.


You may not be able to take a person into custody with a fire hose, but you can use common sense to protect your own life can you not? This goes beyond fire fighting and police work as well. Risk vs reward would tell the Waffle House cook not to flip the hamburgers with his bare hand just because there is no spatula to be found wouldnt it? I also understand that common sense isnt so common anymore so maybe im just looking at things all wrong. If the majority rules then I hate to say that us common sense guys may just need to step down now.

 

humm, let me think...ok, if we are talking about the cop that the op first posted about. he was only late to do a job directing traffic traveling with NO lights, NO siren passing people at more than double the speed limit. he only flipped them on to let the other officer know who he was. "abusive power move" i say after due-process of the law his license should be suspended and he should be fired. of all people out there he should be the one most trained that this kind of behavior is uncalled for period. his actions were a sheer lack of respect for the laws that his job is to protect.

for argument sake now. if its ok for a LEO to travel at speeds very well above 100mph. for the only sake of catching a fleeing suspect, or answering a dangerous call. then why cant ambulances travel at very high rates of speed to save lives too. i know they cant travel as fast but they dont do it either.