OK all you machinist types out there. Let's say a guy wanted to setup a machine shop for building racing engines. We aren't mass-producing anything, so no need for multi-million dollar 6-axis CNC centers.

But multi-process machines are the new reality. What are good brands to look at? We've come along way from the 20-ton Bridgeport mill.

My first-blush impression is that Rottler machines are about as good as a guy could ask for. They have great precision, super easy plain-language interface (no G-code!) based on Windows. They can do multiple actions with a single fixturing.

Anyhow, how does a Rottler cylinder head machine compared to, say a Serdi 4.0?

I'm completely ignorant of anything other than basic machinist terms (I know what a line bore, deck, etc is and I know the difference between a mill and a lathe).

How could I compare, say a Sunnen CK616 to a competing Rottler machine?

What other brands are out there? Are there decent imports worth considering?

Bridgeport is the only other name brand I know of, and they don't seem to service the small machine shop market anymore-- all they have are mega CNC machines.


Thanks in advance, all you machine-tool gurus for educating this ignoramus!

JH

 

Hey, I've seen plenty of high end shops doing one off type work using bridgeport mills that were pulled right off the decks of WWI and WWII war ships .

 

You can get a Haas toolroom mill. Same basic table size as a Bridgeport. The big kicker for me would be that they are available as a 220v single phase machine and can be dropped off in anyones garage for a price on a brand new one of 20k. This is also a full 3 axis cnc machine and can be upgraded with a toolchanger etc.
http://www.haascnc.com/VMC_MODEL_TM.asp#VMCTreeModel

 

That HAAS units are very impressive as well.

Anyone else?

 

i learned engine machining on sunnen and rottler stuff, i love them, the newer they get the more user friendly they are, especially anything with a windows based program. you better have alot of experience if your gonna be building motors, its alot of time and effort and you got to deal with some very "ecentric" people in that sport. what kind of engines are you gonna be building stock block street stock? all aluminum 400+ cube late model/sprint engines, what you buy is gonna reflect on your craftmanship, for a decent shop, i guess 200K+ for everything if bought new and building a good sized shop with a tear down room and also a assembly room.

 

I've been selling engine rebuilding machines here in the Rocky Mountains for the last 27 years. Rottlers stuff is second to none. Their F67-8 series machine is incredibly easy for a non CNC guy to program for block machining and blueprinting. Their fixturing is superior. They pioneered the use of diamonds to finish hone blocks and their new head machines are pretty awesome. They have developed some unique tooling for heads. I am very familiar with the Serdi's but you have to deal with the French. Good machines but customer service is different. PM me and I would be happy to discuss any questions you have.

 

I'd be interested in putting together engine "packages" that will take an unassuming short block and convert it into an unbelievable fire-breather.

Sort of how Indy Cylinder Head does their top end packages-- heads, manifold, rocker systems, etc-- al designed to work together.

jh

 

I used to write CNC code. A good CNC operator can read G-code like a blueprint so having something he isn't used to could be a handicap. But then I'm old school from a shop with 5 axis machines. We did aerospace stuff.

Using g-code makes the program transportable to other machines. If you ever wanted to farm it out you'd have difficulty there also.

Edwin

 

From what I understand, the Rottlers DO use G code-- it's just invisible to the operator. You can have it spit out to a file, no problem. You just don't have to program G code to get the machine to do things. The interface takes plain language inputs and converts them to G code.

Or, I'm completely mistaken. I hope not!

 

The CAM systems I've used were graphical. You import a 3D model of the part to be machined and then you drive the cutter around it. It then generates the G-code from that. I've never seen one that took text inputs. Maybe it's just a real simple system that interprets to the G-code. Kind of like BASIC programming language.

I wonder if it will accept G-code programs from other systems.

Edwin

 

Rottler uses Cad/Cam programming to make their machines move, but they approach it with an overlayed program. The operator simply brings up the type of block they want to work on. They then pick from a long menu list of "canned" programs, I.E. Boring, surfacing, o-ringing, lower bore clearance, line boring, thrust bearing machining, lifter truing, block lightening, tapping, etc, etc, etc.
Almost any conceivable operation on a block. This brings up a graphical representation of the machine operation and the operator simply fills in the numbers from the blueprint or sweeps the part in. He can then go to a single cylinder, or run an auto program to do the entire block.

You can go into the Cad/Cam and do a custom operation but you would have to be awfully specialized to get past the available programs Rottler has already prepared. If you want to manufacture parts, it is probably not the machining center for you, but if you are working on engines, it is an extremely easy machine to learn on, and the very best work can be produced quickly and efficiently.