Kerry's combat V?
09-02-2004, 01:13 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: On a riverbank with my shotgun!
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kerry's combat V?
This was just something that I came across on Judicial Watch. I respect any and all service personal for their service, but Kerry really has opened a can of worms for himself.
Kerry Should Remove Silver Star Citation From His Internet Site Pending Review By U.S. Navy
Combat 'V' Never Awarded With Silver Star (Is this a true statement?)
Former Navy Secretary Lehman Never Approved Citation
Additional Questions Remain Over Service Medal and Purple Hearts
(Washington, DC) Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption and abuse, today called on Senator John Kerry to remove the Silver Star citation from his political campaign Internet site pending a review of the granting of the award by the U.S. Navy.
On August 18, 2004, Judicial Watch filed a complaint and request for investigation and final disposition of awards granted to Kerry with the Inspectors General of the Department of Defense and the Department of the Navy, as well as the Chief of Naval Operations and the Navy’s Board of Decorations and Medals. See the complaint by clicking here.
Senator Kerry’s DD Form 214 (a Defense Department form detailing a veteran’s service upon separation from the military) lists his “Silver Star with Combat ‘V’” and is posted on the Internet at JohnKerry.com. The Combat “V” device is never awarded with the nation’s third highest award for heroism.
Journalist Thomas Lipscomb, writing in the Chicago Sun-Times quoted a Navy spokesperson stating: “The Navy has never issued a ‘Combat V’ to anyone for a Silver Star.” Additionally, former Navy Secretary John Lehman was quoted with respect to the Silver Star citation as saying: “It is a total mystery to me. I never saw it. I never signed it. I never approved it. And the additional language it contains was not written by me.”
Furthermore, Senator Kerry’s records also reflect the award of a Vietnam Service Medal with 4 bronze stars. Military experts consulted by Judicial Watch believe Kerry’s brief tour of duty in Vietnam would have merited no more than 2 bronze stars on a Vietnam Service Medal. Many Swift Boat Veterans have questioned the circumstances of Kerry’s Purple Heart awards.
“There is something amiss in Senator Kerry’s service records. John Kerry should stop touting an award that has never been awarded to anyone in the U.S. Navy. The U.S. Navy needs to get on the ball and thoroughly scrub John Kerry’s service record by conducting a complete investigation of Kerry’s service,” stated Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “And, of course, John Kerry may answer many of these questions by authorizing the release of all his service and medical records,” Fitton added.
Kerry Should Remove Silver Star Citation From His Internet Site Pending Review By U.S. Navy
Combat 'V' Never Awarded With Silver Star (Is this a true statement?)
Former Navy Secretary Lehman Never Approved Citation
Additional Questions Remain Over Service Medal and Purple Hearts
(Washington, DC) Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption and abuse, today called on Senator John Kerry to remove the Silver Star citation from his political campaign Internet site pending a review of the granting of the award by the U.S. Navy.
On August 18, 2004, Judicial Watch filed a complaint and request for investigation and final disposition of awards granted to Kerry with the Inspectors General of the Department of Defense and the Department of the Navy, as well as the Chief of Naval Operations and the Navy’s Board of Decorations and Medals. See the complaint by clicking here.
Senator Kerry’s DD Form 214 (a Defense Department form detailing a veteran’s service upon separation from the military) lists his “Silver Star with Combat ‘V’” and is posted on the Internet at JohnKerry.com. The Combat “V” device is never awarded with the nation’s third highest award for heroism.
Journalist Thomas Lipscomb, writing in the Chicago Sun-Times quoted a Navy spokesperson stating: “The Navy has never issued a ‘Combat V’ to anyone for a Silver Star.” Additionally, former Navy Secretary John Lehman was quoted with respect to the Silver Star citation as saying: “It is a total mystery to me. I never saw it. I never signed it. I never approved it. And the additional language it contains was not written by me.”
Furthermore, Senator Kerry’s records also reflect the award of a Vietnam Service Medal with 4 bronze stars. Military experts consulted by Judicial Watch believe Kerry’s brief tour of duty in Vietnam would have merited no more than 2 bronze stars on a Vietnam Service Medal. Many Swift Boat Veterans have questioned the circumstances of Kerry’s Purple Heart awards.
“There is something amiss in Senator Kerry’s service records. John Kerry should stop touting an award that has never been awarded to anyone in the U.S. Navy. The U.S. Navy needs to get on the ball and thoroughly scrub John Kerry’s service record by conducting a complete investigation of Kerry’s service,” stated Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “And, of course, John Kerry may answer many of these questions by authorizing the release of all his service and medical records,” Fitton added.
09-02-2004, 01:59 PM
#2
Here is another one
Judicial Watch says Kerry once took laundered funds
By Eric Heyl
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, September 2, 2004
A Washington, D.C., public interest group has released FBI documents it says indicates Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry accepted laundered contributions from the Chinese government during his 1996 Senate re-election campaign.
The organization Judicial Watch also contends that in exchange for the donations, Kerry might have arranged meetings between federal government officials and Chinese aerospace executives.
"These disturbing FBI documents raise further questions about Sen. Kerry's involvement in what looks like a quid pro quo -- cash for meetings -- with the communist Chinese," Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said in a statement.
The Kerry campaign had no immediate comment.
The Carthage Foundation, which is controlled by Pittsburgh Tribune-Review Publisher Richard M. Scaife, annually contributes money to Judicial Watch.
Judicial Watch released the recently declassified documents last week after obtaining them through the federal Freedom of Information Act. The information involves the FBI's "Chinagate" investigation into former President Bill Clinton's campaign's acceptance of contributions from Chinese government sources.
The documents pertaining to former Democratic fund-raiser Johnny Chung, who pleaded guilty to federal election law violations in 1998, is heavily redacted.
But a March 1998 FBI "proposed areas of inquiry" report into Chung's activities lists a meeting with Kerry and unidentified China aerospace company executives, as well Chung's involvement in a Kerry fund-raiser.
An August 1998 FBI document recommends Chung take a polygraph exam and notes Chung laundered money for Clinton, former Vice President Al Gore and Kerry.
The information obtained by Judicial Watch affirms an NBC News report in February that Kerry unwittingly attempted to aid a Chinese arms dealer's unsuccessful attempt to get her company listed on the New York Stock Exchange in 1996 in return for Chung campaign contributions.
Chung gave $10,000 -- most of it illegally -- to Kerry's campaign hosted a fund-raiser in Beverly Hills, and donated an additional $10,000 to honor Kerry at a Democratic Senate Campaign Committee event. Kerry eventually returned all of the Chung money, NBC reported.
NBC identified the arms dealer as Liu Chao Ying, an executive with a Chinese aerospace company.
According to NBC, U.S. intelligence considers Liu a "player" in the nuclear-capable missile arms trade. She helped broker the 1991 sale of Chinese M-11 missiles to Pakistan, a $300 million transaction resulting in U.S. sanctions against Liu's company and Pakistani companies.
Judicial Watch has sued prominent Democrats and Republicans. It represented Gennifer Flowers in a lawsuit against Clinton and has filed a shareholders suit against Vice President Dick Cheney and other directors of Halliburton alleging fraudulent accounting practices.
Eric Heyl can be reached at eheyl@tribweb.com or (412) 320-7857.
Judicial Watch says Kerry once took laundered funds
By Eric Heyl
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, September 2, 2004
A Washington, D.C., public interest group has released FBI documents it says indicates Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry accepted laundered contributions from the Chinese government during his 1996 Senate re-election campaign.
The organization Judicial Watch also contends that in exchange for the donations, Kerry might have arranged meetings between federal government officials and Chinese aerospace executives.
"These disturbing FBI documents raise further questions about Sen. Kerry's involvement in what looks like a quid pro quo -- cash for meetings -- with the communist Chinese," Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said in a statement.
The Kerry campaign had no immediate comment.
The Carthage Foundation, which is controlled by Pittsburgh Tribune-Review Publisher Richard M. Scaife, annually contributes money to Judicial Watch.
Judicial Watch released the recently declassified documents last week after obtaining them through the federal Freedom of Information Act. The information involves the FBI's "Chinagate" investigation into former President Bill Clinton's campaign's acceptance of contributions from Chinese government sources.
The documents pertaining to former Democratic fund-raiser Johnny Chung, who pleaded guilty to federal election law violations in 1998, is heavily redacted.
But a March 1998 FBI "proposed areas of inquiry" report into Chung's activities lists a meeting with Kerry and unidentified China aerospace company executives, as well Chung's involvement in a Kerry fund-raiser.
An August 1998 FBI document recommends Chung take a polygraph exam and notes Chung laundered money for Clinton, former Vice President Al Gore and Kerry.
The information obtained by Judicial Watch affirms an NBC News report in February that Kerry unwittingly attempted to aid a Chinese arms dealer's unsuccessful attempt to get her company listed on the New York Stock Exchange in 1996 in return for Chung campaign contributions.
Chung gave $10,000 -- most of it illegally -- to Kerry's campaign hosted a fund-raiser in Beverly Hills, and donated an additional $10,000 to honor Kerry at a Democratic Senate Campaign Committee event. Kerry eventually returned all of the Chung money, NBC reported.
NBC identified the arms dealer as Liu Chao Ying, an executive with a Chinese aerospace company.
According to NBC, U.S. intelligence considers Liu a "player" in the nuclear-capable missile arms trade. She helped broker the 1991 sale of Chinese M-11 missiles to Pakistan, a $300 million transaction resulting in U.S. sanctions against Liu's company and Pakistani companies.
Judicial Watch has sued prominent Democrats and Republicans. It represented Gennifer Flowers in a lawsuit against Clinton and has filed a shareholders suit against Vice President Dick Cheney and other directors of Halliburton alleging fraudulent accounting practices.
Eric Heyl can be reached at eheyl@tribweb.com or (412) 320-7857.
09-02-2004, 03:59 PM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: On a riverbank with my shotgun!
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice! I'm glad I'm not running for high public office, Lord only knows what bones they could find in my closet. Kyle throws key away, doesn't want to know either! 
Kyle
I'm glad I'm not running for high public office, Lord only knows what bones they could find in my closet. Kyle throws key away, doesn't want to know either! Kyle
09-02-2004, 04:59 PM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the middle of Weather Dry Creek Farm in Avilla, Arkansas
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Different services have different criteria for awards.
The bronze star can be awarded for either service or valor(V device).(Army during a combat operation) IE; knew a Cpt that got one during the Grenada operation for manning a commo shelter, stateside, for 24 hrs, straight.
The silver star is adorned with either oak leaves or stars for additional awards. Adding a V device to a silver star is an oxymoron.
I received a Navy Commendation with V device for jumping into the water to save a dumb *** ensign that fell over the side because he was topside in leather soled shoes. On the other hand, I have received 6 Army Commendations and 7 Army Achievement medals. For just doing my job? (Redeploying a 20 odd man mortar platoon 100 miles, in 2 1/2 hours, due to a tornado hitting a town, got me one of the ARCOMS. Get real, we shoot and scoot.)
Awards are the two "P's", preception and politics.
Kerry served. Played the game. Survived. No different than anyone else. Including those that went into the Guard and Reserves.
If we acted like the Russians, his actions and those of Jane Fonda would have been long forgotten. Why? They would have been executed as traitors and we wouldn't have to be listening to this BS from now till well after the election.
runningmyheadcauseIcanShortround out
The bronze star can be awarded for either service or valor(V device).(Army during a combat operation) IE; knew a Cpt that got one during the Grenada operation for manning a commo shelter, stateside, for 24 hrs, straight.
The silver star is adorned with either oak leaves or stars for additional awards. Adding a V device to a silver star is an oxymoron.
I received a Navy Commendation with V device for jumping into the water to save a dumb *** ensign that fell over the side because he was topside in leather soled shoes. On the other hand, I have received 6 Army Commendations and 7 Army Achievement medals. For just doing my job? (Redeploying a 20 odd man mortar platoon 100 miles, in 2 1/2 hours, due to a tornado hitting a town, got me one of the ARCOMS. Get real, we shoot and scoot.)
Awards are the two "P's", preception and politics.
Kerry served. Played the game. Survived. No different than anyone else. Including those that went into the Guard and Reserves.
If we acted like the Russians, his actions and those of Jane Fonda would have been long forgotten. Why? They would have been executed as traitors and we wouldn't have to be listening to this BS from now till well after the election.
runningmyheadcauseIcanShortround out
09-02-2004, 07:58 PM
#6
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Newport, RI (yay! out of TX!!)
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK folks... before you just jump on the bandwagon, do a little bit of your own research. Kerry's citations DO NOT indicate that he gets a Combat V with his Silver Star. It does show on his DD-214, which most likely some junior clerk (E3 or E4) typed and made a mistake. Yes, it should be QA'd by a supervisor and the member before signing, but I can see where he'd just want to get it signed and get out.
His website doesn't say he got a V with the Silver Star, just the Bronze Star, for which a V is authorized. From the Kerry website: "His leadership, courage, and sacrifice earned him a Silver Star, a Bronze Star with Combat V, and three Purple Hearts."
Some group - "non partisan, non affiliated" or whatever they say - saw the error on the DD-214 and literally made a federal case about it. But, in their complaint citation, they use as a primary source quotes and stories from the "Swift Boat Veterans", themselves highly suspect. Many of those people just weren't there and are making statements based on other situations and scenarios and stories.
John Kerry isn't claiming a Combat V for his Silver Star, only this (non-partisan???) group is. So much for their credibility.
I am a bit confused a bit about the two Silver Star citations in the record. They're duplicates, but the one signed by what looks like John Lehman is weird... he wasn't SECNAV until 1981. Why would he be signing out a certificate 10+ years after the fact? There's one in there for the Bronze Star, too... with the Combat Distinguishing Device, or Combat V, signed by Lehman. All I can think of is that they are replacement certificantes/citations because he destroyed the originals during his protests?
I'm not a Kerry supporter, but it really pisses me off when people who have no idea what it's like to serve or come under fire (I have 2 Air Medals with V and 2 Navy Commendations with V for Desert Storm) start saying crap they have no clue about.
We have to give credence to the chain of command that was there at the time and read the recommendations and approved these awards. Those can not be questioned because a records clerk made an error and some "non-partisan" group blows this all out of proportion.
Question Kerry's actions after he got back. Question his politics. Compare his approach, platform and politics with Bush's, but unless you're willing to question EVERY veteran's awards that have been approved by the chain of command, accept his awards as earned.
Do your own research... don't be like a herd of cows being lead to the slaughter and follow blindly along.
His website doesn't say he got a V with the Silver Star, just the Bronze Star, for which a V is authorized. From the Kerry website: "His leadership, courage, and sacrifice earned him a Silver Star, a Bronze Star with Combat V, and three Purple Hearts."
Some group - "non partisan, non affiliated" or whatever they say - saw the error on the DD-214 and literally made a federal case about it. But, in their complaint citation, they use as a primary source quotes and stories from the "Swift Boat Veterans", themselves highly suspect. Many of those people just weren't there and are making statements based on other situations and scenarios and stories.
John Kerry isn't claiming a Combat V for his Silver Star, only this (non-partisan???) group is. So much for their credibility.
I am a bit confused a bit about the two Silver Star citations in the record. They're duplicates, but the one signed by what looks like John Lehman is weird... he wasn't SECNAV until 1981. Why would he be signing out a certificate 10+ years after the fact? There's one in there for the Bronze Star, too... with the Combat Distinguishing Device, or Combat V, signed by Lehman. All I can think of is that they are replacement certificantes/citations because he destroyed the originals during his protests?
I'm not a Kerry supporter, but it really pisses me off when people who have no idea what it's like to serve or come under fire (I have 2 Air Medals with V and 2 Navy Commendations with V for Desert Storm) start saying crap they have no clue about.
We have to give credence to the chain of command that was there at the time and read the recommendations and approved these awards. Those can not be questioned because a records clerk made an error and some "non-partisan" group blows this all out of proportion.
Question Kerry's actions after he got back. Question his politics. Compare his approach, platform and politics with Bush's, but unless you're willing to question EVERY veteran's awards that have been approved by the chain of command, accept his awards as earned.
Do your own research... don't be like a herd of cows being lead to the slaughter and follow blindly along.
09-03-2004, 07:42 PM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the middle of Weather Dry Creek Farm in Avilla, Arkansas
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
joel,
Not trying to stir anything up at all. Just pointing out how the different services do things.
There tends to be a number of things that get left off of the 214's, especially when you have been on "special operations".
Another area is where awards were given for a particular time frame and was not made public until after you got out of the service. Those were mostly for unit awards, but for the most part, did not catch up with you. For those in the reserves, it's good to look into. I ended up with several unit citations that were awarded several years after I left the Navy.
Whatever Kerry's motive was with the awards and service in Vietnam, to me, is inmaterial. My gripe is in his actions afterwards. How right or wrong he was is the subject of many debates to come. However, to this old squid and present grunt, I still place him in the same category as Jane Fonda.
Just my opinion.
Not trying to stir anything up at all. Just pointing out how the different services do things.
There tends to be a number of things that get left off of the 214's, especially when you have been on "special operations".
Another area is where awards were given for a particular time frame and was not made public until after you got out of the service. Those were mostly for unit awards, but for the most part, did not catch up with you. For those in the reserves, it's good to look into. I ended up with several unit citations that were awarded several years after I left the Navy.
Whatever Kerry's motive was with the awards and service in Vietnam, to me, is inmaterial. My gripe is in his actions afterwards. How right or wrong he was is the subject of many debates to come. However, to this old squid and present grunt, I still place him in the same category as Jane Fonda.
Just my opinion.
Trending Topics
09-03-2004, 08:19 PM
#8
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Newport, RI (yay! out of TX!!)
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And that, shortround, is a valid topic for debate and/or making a decision. I don't know all the details as well as I should about just what he did and said, but I won't hold it against him for speaking his mind against US involvement in Vietnam. Nor will I hold it against him for throwing away his medals, though I think it was pretty stupid. Who among us hasn't done something stupid when we were young that we regret - for whatever reason - now? Not me!
Like I said, I'm not a Kerry supporter, but I'm not blindly voting for Bush, either. To be honest, John Ashcroft as Attorney General for 4 more years does worry me.
Like I said, I'm not a Kerry supporter, but I'm not blindly voting for Bush, either. To be honest, John Ashcroft as Attorney General for 4 more years does worry me.
09-04-2004, 01:14 AM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sierra California
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by joel
And that, shortround, is a valid topic for debate and/or making a decision. I don't know all the details as well as I should about just what he did and said, but I won't hold it against him for speaking his mind against US involvement in Vietnam. Nor will I hold it against him for throwing away his medals, though I think it was pretty stupid. Who among us hasn't done something stupid when we were young that we regret - for whatever reason - now? Not me!
Like I said, I'm not a Kerry supporter, but I'm not blindly voting for Bush, either. To be honest, John Ashcroft as Attorney General for 4 more years does worry me.
And that, shortround, is a valid topic for debate and/or making a decision. I don't know all the details as well as I should about just what he did and said, but I won't hold it against him for speaking his mind against US involvement in Vietnam. Nor will I hold it against him for throwing away his medals, though I think it was pretty stupid. Who among us hasn't done something stupid when we were young that we regret - for whatever reason - now? Not me!
Like I said, I'm not a Kerry supporter, but I'm not blindly voting for Bush, either. To be honest, John Ashcroft as Attorney General for 4 more years does worry me.
I don't have a problem with a person who voices objections to the war. I do have a problem with a man who paints American soldiers in Vietnam as murdering, raping thugs. A statement made largely based on unsubstantiated hearsay, and made while U.S soldiers were dying in combat and captivity.
And then 30 years later that same man wants to align himself with American soldiers, be chosen Commander in Chief and assure the country that he will "support the military"!
Not with my vote sir!
09-04-2004, 08:02 AM
#10
Originally posted by ten8fiftyone
I have never been in the military. My service to the constitution was in the form of law enforcement (21 years in California).
I don't have a problem with a person who voices objections to the war. I do have a problem with a man who paints American soldiers in Vietnam as murdering, raping thugs. A statement made largely based on unsubstantiated hearsay, and made while U.S soldiers were dying in combat and captivity.
And then 30 years later that same man wants to align himself with American soldiers, be chosen Commander in Chief and assure the country that he will "support the military"!
Not with my vote sir!
I have never been in the military. My service to the constitution was in the form of law enforcement (21 years in California).
I don't have a problem with a person who voices objections to the war. I do have a problem with a man who paints American soldiers in Vietnam as murdering, raping thugs. A statement made largely based on unsubstantiated hearsay, and made while U.S soldiers were dying in combat and captivity.
And then 30 years later that same man wants to align himself with American soldiers, be chosen Commander in Chief and assure the country that he will "support the military"!
Not with my vote sir!
I have come to the conclusion that only a limp wristed pacifist would gain anything by voting for Kerry, because he would certainly decimate our armed forces...just what the liberals want. We would no longer be the world's superpower...even the cowardly French would have more weapons (dusty and unused) than us.
Anyone else that wants the U.S. to remain strong would be a fool to waste a vote on Kerry....'Nam or no 'Nam, I don't care if he served...his anti-military voting record speaks volumes and some people don't want to hear it.
09-04-2004, 08:59 AM
#11
I was banned per my own request for speaking the name Pelosi
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bristol Michigan
Posts: 1,908
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nobody cares what medals Kerry got. They just care that first he knocks them and braggs about pitching them, then he's rubbing them in your face. Medals are subjective, but serve a purpose. They are given to guys that "do their job", and are incentive/motivation to keep doing the job and doing it well. Just don't take them out of context and flaunt them. The private sector AND government mangaement get "pay for performance", so what's wrong with the little guy getting acknowledged. Military guys can glance at a uniform and tell wether any awards were given during action. What's questionable about Kerry is whether he fudged his claims for his purple hearts so he could get released early. Not doubting he was wounded, but whether they were inflicted by the enemy or not. It's easy to beleave this , as he had applied for a defferral before going over, but was refused. Now Kerry knocks Cheney for taking a deferral, when Kerry was in the same mindset BEFORE and AFTER. Why shouldn't we believe DURING?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post