>ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP America's
>Aggressive Civil Rights Organization
>
>May 10, 2005
>
>JPFO ALERT: THE END OF AMERICA - MAY 10, 2005
>
>On Tuesday, May 10, 2005, America became a true police state. Your U.S.
>senators voted -- unanimously, with no discussion, and without even
>reading the bill -- to create a national ID card.
>
>The Real ID Act blackmails state governments into turning their drivers
>licenses into a draconian tool of the federal homeland security
>apparatus. If states refuse, their citizens lose such "privileges" as
>being allowed to board an airplane, enter a federal building, or apply
>for social security. President Bush is expected to sign the bill
>eagerly on Thursday.
>
>In three years -- by May 2008 -- this Stalin-style internal passport
>will be an American reality. But your government will have _more_
>control over you than Stalin ever dreamed in his most violent, vicious,
>anti-freedom dreams. (See links to the text of the law and articles
>about it at the bottom of this article.)
>
>But that's only the beginning.
>
>The creator of the Real ID Act, Rep. James Sensenbrenner, smiles and
>tells us that his Real ID Act is all about "solving illegal
>immigration" or "preventing terrorists from entering the country." This
>is one of the biggest of the thousands of "Big Lies" we've heard from
>the tyrants in Washington. The Real ID Act is about tracking and
>controlling Americans. You. Me. Our children. Everybody.
>
>In May 2008, barring a miracle, America as we once knew it will be in
>ruins. It will be gone. And the rights of gun owners will be among the
>first scheduled for destruction.
>
>GUN OWNERS: PREPARE TO RESIST
>
>Here's your future:
>
>* You walk into a gun store, fill out your 4473, and show your
>government ID just as you now do. But instead of looking at your
>license and taking down some information, the clerk runs the license
>(which is likely to contain a radio-frequency ID chip) through a
>scanner. Your purchase is instantly recorded in your _state_ drivers
>license registry. The federal government isn't currently allowed to
>keep a gun registry. But no problem; the Real ID act gives them an open
>door into your state records.
>
>* Complete information on every firearm you buy will be instantly
>available to every police officer (and possibly every government
>employee, store clerk, or computer hacker) you ever encounter. You'll
>be an instant criminal suspect every time you deal with someone who has
>access to the database.
>
>* Just as travelers are encouraged to get background checks and give
>fingerprints to avoid some of the worst excesses of TSA screening, gun
>owners will be encouraged to get background checks and give whatever
>biometric ID the Department of Homeland Security requires. This will be
>sold as a "benefit," ensuring you'll never again experience an
>"instant-check" delay. In fact, Congress, the ATF, or the FBI might
>even "mandate" 5-day or 15-day delays for anyone not enrolled in the
>"Trusted Firearms Buyer" program.
>
>* The private purchase "loophole" will be closed, so that all gun
>buyers must make trackable purchases. (The ultimate goal is for _every_
>purchase of every kind to be
>trackable.)
>
>* Buying ammo? The store scans your national ID card and -- bingo! --
>your purchase is registered in the state database.
>
>* The federal government or state governments can now also
>_effectively_ legislate limits on the amount or kind of ammunition
>you're "allowed" to purchase. Try to buy more and the database
>instantly rejects you.
>
>* The federal government or state governments can now also
>_effectively_ legislate limits on the number of guns you may own. Try
>to buy more, and the database rejects you.
>
>* Eventually -- after the federal government "discovers"
>the obvious, that national ID won't stop either illegal immigration or
>terrorism -- the old attack on "evil guns"
>will resume. When they want your .50 BMG they'll know just where to
>find it (because the Real ID act says your home address _must_ be
>revealed). When they want your evil "scoped sniper rifle" (you know,
>the one you hunt deer with), they'll know just how to get it. Ditto
>with you "Saturday Night Special" or your "assault weapon."
>
>* If you don't surrender your guns, well, then the Department of
>Homeland Security will cut off your driving "privilege," as well as
>your right to escape the growing police state via plane. You'll be a
>prisoner in your own home, in your own country. Or you'll be forced to
>function as an outlaw, operating and living a precarious existence
>beneath the government radar.
>
>PARANOID? OR PAYING ATTENTION?
>
>You say these projections are ridiculous? That we're paranoid?
>
>Well, frankly, if the Real ID Act doesn't make you paranoid, you're not
>paying enough attention. We ask you to consider the long-term impact of
>a few other acts of government.
>
>In the 1930s, Congress promised us that our social security numbers
>would never, absolutely never, be used for identification. Now, they're
>the key to everything about us
>-- and without a social security number you won't get a drivers license
>and you won't even be "allowed" to drive after May 2008.
>
>In 1913, Congress and the media swore to us that the brand- new income
>tax would only affect the rich. Well, how rich do you feel after paying
>40 percent of your income (or
>more!) in taxes?
>
>This is the way government works. They've even got a term for it:
>mission creep. And there is no creepier mission than the mission the
>federal government has currently set
>itself: to track everyone, everywhere, and to control what we do.
>
>We warned you in _The State vs. the People_
>(http://www.jpfo.org/tsvtp.htm) that this was coming. That book is
>still relevant, still a good read, and still filled with information
>about what our future will be like in this new American police state.
>
>Be forewarned. Be aware.
>
>REAL ID: IT'S THE LAW AND IT'S CRIMINAL
>
>Please take a moment to go to this site:
>http://www.rebelfirerock.com/home.html. Click on the link that leads to
>the song "Justice Day." Listen to the music or read the lyrics. Here's
>the opening of the song:
>
>You're the boot.
>Stomping on the human face forever.
>You're the eye.
>Staring down on everyone and ever seeing all.
>You're the lie.
>Twisting all our minds into your whoredom.
>You are Death.
>You are war.
>You are slavery.
>You're the law.
>You're the law.
>You're the LAW!
>
>George Orwell was the first to describe totalitarianism as a "boot
>stomping on the human face forever." But in Orwell's day Americans
>would have had a hard time believing that the law -- the good old,
>all-American legislature -- all those smiling senators and
>"representatives" would be the ones to plant their iron heels in our
>faces. Back in those innocent days, we imagined tyranny would come from
>_outside_.
>
>Well, tyranny is here. And it's a gift from the very people we so
>trustingly put into office.
>
>Tyranny is THE LAW.
>
>Is this a way to run a country? Tacking something as onerous as
>national ID onto a must-pass bill and making it law without any debate?
>What does this say about people the gun owners consider their friends?
>In the House, where the bill containing the Real ID Act passed 368-58,
>only three Republicans voted against it. Here's the final roll-call
>vote so you can see how your own congressperson voted:
>http://clerk.house.gov/cgi-
>bin/vote.asp?year=2005&rollnumber=161#N (or http://tinyurl.com/cr3bj )
>
>In the Senate, not one person cared enough about freedom to vote
>against it -- or even to demand that senators _discuss_ it.
>
>(The Real ID Act originally passed the House in February as a
>standalone bill (H.R. 418) by a vote of 261-to-161. House leaders,
>realizing national ID would have been in trouble in the Senate, then
>added it to a must-pass military appropriations bill in a cynical ploy
>to make it almost impossible to fight national ID.)
>
>Turning America into a full-fledged police state was just business as
>usual to your representatives. And, just as Adolf Hitler scrupulously
>followed German law while committing his horrors, so your
>"representatives" and the bureaucrats you face at the national-ID
>drivers license bureau will also be following the law -- the Real ID
>law that allows them to enslave you.
>
>(To see what a real Bill of Rights leader would do, read the novel
>_Hope_ by Aaron Zelman and L. Neil Smith:
>http://www.jpfo.org/hope.htm.)
>

 

I am all for the Federal id program, but then I have nothing to hide.

 

Ya know, whenever I read something with this much hyberbole, I automatically tune it out. The arguments are old, they have no basis in fact, and it's pretty much a lot of hot wind.

There is nothing in the act that requires all the states to use "one type of ID". What it DOES require is the verification that the individual receiving the license is authorized to be in the country. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Go ahead. Do it. I got nothing to hide. But try and take my guns or limit how much ammo I can buy and there's gonna be a fight.

 

I'm with BigBlue.

Remember, criminals & terrorists don't due paperwork.

 

anything to hide? Nope, me neither. Does that mean I want just about any goverment employee with a computer the ability to look even further into my life? Nope.

I have a lot more reading to do on this but one thing I came across concerns getting a DL in a state you just moved to. The fact that you already have a valid DL apparently doesn't matter as you have to "prove" who you are to the new state. This requires, among other things an original birth certificate (not a photo copy of the birth record which is what most of us probably have), an original social security card (do you still have yours? mine was gone by the time I was 10) and at least 2 other forms of ID

Now that you have all of that, you get to go to the DMV. When was the last time that was a pleasant experience for anyone? And remember, it was bad before we had to do all of this extra stuff. Anyway, we are now at the DMV and after waiting in line for probably several hours we get to present our identification to the clerk. The clerk has to verify everything which means checking with the state that issued the birth certificate, checking with the state that issued your last DL (probably a different state) etc. My guess is that this will take at least a week, if not more. So you are now going to have to leave all of this information about you in the hands of a clerk. How secure is this going to be? Think the info won't be left out on the desk everytime they go to the bathroom or go help someone else etc? Now my info is just laying out for anyone in the area to stick in their pocket.

Don't even get me started about how easy it probably will be to penetrate the security of the minimum of 50 new databases that are getting ready to have to be created...

Again, maybe I am being an alarmist & I am all about securing the country and there may actually not be a better way to do it but I really think we need to watch this closely.

If this was such a good idea how come the only way to get it passed was to attach it to a bill providing funding to the troops. The only way to vote against the DL part was to vote against the whole bill putting senators in the position of "not being loyal to the troops"

btw, how many hundreds of millions is this going to cost?

 

The reason why this was difficult is because you have many politicians who refuse to do anything about the illegals currently residing in the US. There is so much BS floating around the internet right now regarding this act, and the painfully obvious reason this was put into place is being ignored by many.

I posted the following in another thread.

How many illegal aliens voted in the last election? Most places, all you need to show is a driver's license, and we know how easy those are to get.

10 States currently allow anyone (legal or not) to obtain a driver's license. Many more allow you to get one just by showing a social security number. New York just recently figured out that 57 licenses were issued based on just ONE social security number.

 

SWEET! So, does anyone agree that collecting the fee's for Licensing is pretty important to some states?

Also, it's pretty easy for an LEO to make comments about not being worried about gun control, considering that most if not all current and retired Officers breeze through most government red tape. WOW!
Oue Government the way is is is a JOKE. They rarely pass ANY bill without it being attached to others. You want money for a new government sector or office, no problem, just attach it to a much needed highway bill.

 

Is Smith a Jewish name?

 

And this pertains to preventing illegals from obtaining licenses how?

 

Just to get this thread back on topic - here's what the current Secretary of State, Condi Rice, thinks about Gun Control - I like it....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050512/...ns_1&printer=1

 

UMM, maybe by the fact that the states are so worried about collecting every fee and tax they can think of, why not take some of the illegals money and let them DRIVE too?

 

Tom, I agree, there is a ton of misinformation floating around on both sides right now. That is why I am trying to slowly make my way though the language of that part of the bill. If only I could figure out how to stay awake after about 10 minutes of reading.

Anyway, I just think that it is wrong for stuff like this getting attached to other bills. I think everyone would agree that every bill that goes into law now has too much other junk in it.

If this bill is that important ( and you & I are in total agreement that something needs to be done to tighten identification requirements) then it should be able to get passed by itself. Maybe if the general public got a clearer view of how their politicians really vote there might be some changes.

Too many times our elected officials tell us they had to vote for something bad to get something else good done.

 

Only a politician can use an existing problem as justification to effect change that only has negatives, all while doing nothing to solve the problem that ostensibly led to the "solution".

So we hassle the crap out of law-abiding Americans. How does this hamper criminals AT ALL?

Oh, that's right. They might have to go get fake IDs now. Or maybe they will buy guns on the black market......

Sheesh-- these people are so out of touch, it's insane.

jlh

 

Careful, Edwin and Britt will be calling you a racist again...