Gun control...
03-28-2005, 02:00 PM
#1
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Gun control...
The latest school shooting has the gun control bunch all riled up again. Guess they advocate removing guns from the police. In this case the young man went to his police officer grandfathers home, killed the grandfather and his mate, took his guns, his patrol car and then to the school where he shot several people. The only way this one connects to gun control issues is if the police are not allowed to have guns.
Here is a couple of items from out forefathers:
James Madison wrote in The Federalist Papers #46: "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed -- unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
Thomas Jefferson also recognized the need for citizens to be armed: "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." (Encyclopedia of T. Jefferson, 318 [Foley, Ed., reissued 1967])
The intent of the Constitution is pretty clear, I would think...
Here is a couple of items from out forefathers:
James Madison wrote in The Federalist Papers #46: "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed -- unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
Thomas Jefferson also recognized the need for citizens to be armed: "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." (Encyclopedia of T. Jefferson, 318 [Foley, Ed., reissued 1967])
The intent of the Constitution is pretty clear, I would think...
03-28-2005, 02:45 PM
#3
Thats MR Hoss to you buddy!
The problem is the continued decline or morals in this country. That, in my opinion, is the direct result of folks turning their backs on God in order to serve their own interests.
03-28-2005, 03:02 PM
#4
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The problem is lazy or non existant parenting!!!
My little boy is by far the best behaved one in the neighborhood, but I make him "tow the line", most parents that I observe do not. My little boy is also the only one who is not afraid or at least not intimidated to aproach the adults and talk to them-he has self confidence AND respect for his elders. My little boy is also the only one who will run up to my wife or myself and tell us he loves us!! unsolicited-That puts a big 
on his dad's face! I don't get many of my projects done these last few years due to the time I spend with my son-he is 4. But he and I do work in the garage together. He loves my old Mopars, my Old Blue, and my CTD, I try to involve him in most of my hobbies-he has learned NOT to touch some things.
I am not trying to "toot my own horn" but you need to devote a lot of time and energy into our little ones so they have the tools that they need to become "real" people.
OK-I'm done now.
My little boy is by far the best behaved one in the neighborhood, but I make him "tow the line", most parents that I observe do not. My little boy is also the only one who is not afraid or at least not intimidated to aproach the adults and talk to them-he has self confidence AND respect for his elders. My little boy is also the only one who will run up to my wife or myself and tell us he loves us!! unsolicited-That puts a big on his dad's face! I don't get many of my projects done these last few years due to the time I spend with my son-he is 4. But he and I do work in the garage together. He loves my old Mopars, my Old Blue, and my CTD, I try to involve him in most of my hobbies-he has learned NOT to touch some things.I am not trying to "toot my own horn" but you need to devote a lot of time and energy into our little ones so they have the tools that they need to become "real" people.
OK-I'm done now.
03-28-2005, 03:06 PM
#5
Administrator / Scooter Bum
Yup, taking ALL the guns away (especially from those sworn to enforce the laws) will keep evil people from doing dastardly deeds..
Just ask the Russians
and all of Eastern Europe,
And the British,
And the Austrailians,
etc
etc
etc.
How about a novel approach..........enforcing the existing laws.
If that LEO had secured his weapons, there would be several more people alive in that town.
Just ask the Russians
and all of Eastern Europe,
And the British,
And the Austrailians,
etc
etc
etc.
How about a novel approach..........enforcing the existing laws.
If that LEO had secured his weapons, there would be several more people alive in that town.
03-28-2005, 04:50 PM
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I have to agree with Mcmopar. My son is 2 1/2 and does everthing with his dad. He was in the garage with me as soon as he could walk. We build a race car bed for him at age 1 1/2 and I'm not sure who had more fun him or me. I agree that the more quality time spent with our children the less these terrible things would happen. It has nothing to do with gun control and everthing to do with parental control. Just my 2 cents worth.
03-28-2005, 05:00 PM
#7
Registered User
I'm all for disarming the police. Not citizens mind you just the cops. They shoot to many innocent people.
As for school shootings, they should do what the Israelis did, arm the teachers so they can protect the students. As it stands now, the cowardly scum who go shoot up schools know there will be no armed opposition. It's like shooting fish in a barrel for them. The answer to school shootings is the same answer for every other violent crime, arm the intended victims.
Gun control is victim disarmament.
Edwin ( I am NOT the NRA )
As for school shootings, they should do what the Israelis did, arm the teachers so they can protect the students. As it stands now, the cowardly scum who go shoot up schools know there will be no armed opposition. It's like shooting fish in a barrel for them. The answer to school shootings is the same answer for every other violent crime, arm the intended victims.
Gun control is victim disarmament.
Edwin ( I am NOT the NRA )
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03-28-2005, 05:07 PM
#8
I don't think there is really a way around the occasional school shooting... It isn't something that anything can prevent. I'll wager that there are just as many murders, violence and shootings now as there have ever been. I don't think there is a way to solve it.
Sure CCW's would help if there was a guy that was a good shot standing close by the shooter and willing to pull the trigger on his own student. Other than that I think we just have to live with the occasional random act of violence. People die. When we know them, it sucks. Otherwise it's nothing that really needs worry.
(P.S. And it would be stupid as all get out to disarm the police.)
Sure CCW's would help if there was a guy that was a good shot standing close by the shooter and willing to pull the trigger on his own student. Other than that I think we just have to live with the occasional random act of violence. People die. When we know them, it sucks. Otherwise it's nothing that really needs worry.
(P.S. And it would be stupid as all get out to disarm the police.)
03-28-2005, 05:41 PM
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Re: Gun control...
Originally posted by Haulin_in_Dixie
The latest school shooting has the gun control bunch all riled up again. Guess they advocate removing guns from the police. In this case the young man went to his police officer grandfathers home, killed the grandfather and his mate, took his guns, his patrol car and then to the school where he shot several people. The only way this one connects to gun control issues is if the police are not allowed to have guns.
The latest school shooting has the gun control bunch all riled up again. Guess they advocate removing guns from the police. In this case the young man went to his police officer grandfathers home, killed the grandfather and his mate, took his guns, his patrol car and then to the school where he shot several people. The only way this one connects to gun control issues is if the police are not allowed to have guns.
03-28-2005, 06:11 PM
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Did you also read that in the school most of the kids has tryed suicide?That the teacher killed was not a Native Indian but a outsider so to speak.Was trying to help the girls of the school from becomeing mothers at a early age.Sounds like the gov. screwed that up a bit.My brother's daughter in Fl is supose to be bus to a school with mostly Blk and Hispanic ,she would be the second white girl in the school.The good side of that is the area has the higher drug trade of the area.Not my kid.Oh ya she's like him blonde blue eyed and tall for a 13 year old.No way on that one. Sorry on the rant but the world is getting screwed up big time.
03-28-2005, 06:19 PM
#11
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Thread Starter
Re: Re: Gun control...
Originally posted by joel
That's one hell of a leap, there, Haulin'. ANY shooting energizes the anti-gun bunch but just because this kid got his weapons from a cop, I don't think we'll hear anyone advocating taking guns away from the cops.
That's one hell of a leap, there, Haulin'. ANY shooting energizes the anti-gun bunch but just because this kid got his weapons from a cop, I don't think we'll hear anyone advocating taking guns away from the cops.
"When will our leaders have enough?" asked Sarah Brady, Chair of the Brady Campaign. "When will the government do something to help stop the bloodshed? Red Lake sends all of America's mothers and fathers a message about how vulnerable all of our children are."
03-28-2005, 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by Begle1
I don't think there is really a way around the occasional school shooting... It isn't something that anything can prevent. I'll wager that there are just as many murders, violence and shootings now as there have ever been. I don't think there is a way to solve it.
Sure CCW's would help if there was a guy that was a good shot standing close by the shooter and willing to pull the trigger on his own student. Other than that I think we just have to live with the occasional random act of violence. People die. When we know them, it sucks. Otherwise it's nothing that really needs worry.
(P.S. And it would be stupid as all get out to disarm the police.)
I don't think there is really a way around the occasional school shooting... It isn't something that anything can prevent. I'll wager that there are just as many murders, violence and shootings now as there have ever been. I don't think there is a way to solve it.
Sure CCW's would help if there was a guy that was a good shot standing close by the shooter and willing to pull the trigger on his own student. Other than that I think we just have to live with the occasional random act of violence. People die. When we know them, it sucks. Otherwise it's nothing that really needs worry.
(P.S. And it would be stupid as all get out to disarm the police.)
For XX years (I think it was 20) Michigan had a much higher homicide rate than Ohio. When Michigan passed CCW their rate dropped below Ohio's for the first time according to FBI statistics. Ohio CCW has only been law for about a year and I have not received any numbers yet, but I am sure they are lower than 2003. Anyone with a CCW will be a good enough shot to take down a criminal and anyone with a CCW should be willing to shoot a criminal. Arming law abiding citizens is the most effective way to stop violent crimes!
Other supporters and fellow NRA members make your voices heard!
03-28-2005, 06:44 PM
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I was going to reply to Edwinwhatshisnames ridiculous comment about disarming the police but I might get banned from this otherwise great site... Come and get it if you think you can...
Hondo
Hondo
03-28-2005, 06:48 PM
#14
While a CCW could have stopped it once it began, it would not have stopped the shooting from taking place. Somebody would still have gotten shot.
There is no realistic way of preventing it. It is something that we have to live with.
But more adults with CCW's would help matters. I didn't say otherwise. But even if everybody had a CCW, the kid with a gun will still get off the first and probably second and third shots. You can't prevent it.
Even with a CCW, it's hard to get the initiative on the guy that's behind you and draws without you knowing...
There is no realistic way of preventing it. It is something that we have to live with.
But more adults with CCW's would help matters. I didn't say otherwise. But even if everybody had a CCW, the kid with a gun will still get off the first and probably second and third shots. You can't prevent it.
Even with a CCW, it's hard to get the initiative on the guy that's behind you and draws without you knowing...
03-28-2005, 06:54 PM
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Begle,
I agree. The details listed in MSNBC's story state that when he exited the vehicle he was toting a shotgun. If the security guard had been armed he could have prevented all of the other deaths or at least caused a stand off until police arrived. Being unarmed the security guard fell as an innocent victim.
My thoughts and prayers to all those who lost.
I agree. The details listed in MSNBC's story state that when he exited the vehicle he was toting a shotgun. If the security guard had been armed he could have prevented all of the other deaths or at least caused a stand off until police arrived. Being unarmed the security guard fell as an innocent victim.
My thoughts and prayers to all those who lost.