Looking through a telescope in the 17 th century showed a flaw in the belief of the time, scientifically. The church reluctantly gave into the scientific facts of how the solar system worked. Now no one doubts the science of how the stars and planets work.
Now we have science looking through a microscope showing scientific proof of evolution and the church is rejecting the scientific proof coming from the microscope. Science once again has prevailed.

 

They are not mutually exclusive. The reason Evolution was mentioned was because Darwin was said to have renounced his theory by one of the faithful on this thread. At the time Darwin was doing his research black men were treated like animals, being bought and sold. This was done by good Christians also because they did not see black men as being created in the image of god. Darwin was treated as a heretic and the theory of evolution could not be taught in school as it was believed to be count to the creation theory. Is there any good christian on here that believes that a man that is Black or Yellow is less of a man?? If you do then how can you really have faith? Why did this change from 200 or 400 or even 600 years ago. Why is the black man equal today but was not, even 50 years ago?? Are we more enlightened? Why was this truth not evident from day one to the church and to the faithful.

Science shows that all men are the same no matter what color they are. It is little sticking points like that that make you wonder when religion will stop evolving with the times and say as of right now we are right and nothing can change our minds. Then when someone does change their mind with some new bit of irrefutable information does that mean that all those before were only liked but not loved?? How can a bigot be loved?

 

I do agree if I understand you correctly you are saying that there must have been creation and that the created thing has adapted to his surroundings.

 

I don't know and have never said that. You may want to believe that God created something from nothing and you may think that that is a perfectly reasonable thing. Fine. But, evolution is not about something from nothing. It's about random accidental genetic changes to existing life forms that might or might not be beneficial.

We might be about to clear some of this stuff up here. I hope so. it's so pointless to argue about evolution vs creation when they are completely different.

The argument that evolution cannot be true because it cannot create from scratch is the wrong argument. It's about changes to existing life forms after they are alive. It says nothing about how matter came to be in the first place.


John

 

Faith is believing God, not believing in God. Even the devils believe in God and fear and Tremble. I believe God over scientist. You cannot serve two masters.

 

Not exactly. I grew up in the church. My parents were (are) Christian. I was baptized and saved at age 10 but by age 14 I started questioning all the scriptures and stories in the bible. I was forced to go to church but I don’t hate church as some might believe nor am I anti religion. If I were anti religion I wouldn’t allow my daughter to go to church but I feel that she will have to make her own decision just as I did one day. I believe that a church can be a positive force in the community. It’s just not for me. I am happy that there are people out there that have faith and have found what they are looking for.

Wrong. This is a statement that the church and uninformed people like to use when they try to discredit Darwin and the theory of evolution. It is completely false. Here is a good example of the evolution of the eye:Click Here

The church also likes to say that Darwin denounced all of his findings later in life. Also completely false. I wish before anyone makes blanket statements about Darwin, they would read this first and not just go by something that someone (or the church) said. Charles Darwin is not the anti-christ that some want to make him out to be. He is just a man who's observations have (so far) stood the test of time.


Britt

 

I don't have creation defined yet. But I strongly reject the notion laid out by Christian organized religion. Much of that rejection has to do with the arguments projected here about why it's true. The bible says so, fossils were only created by the big flood, and endless bible quotes about love, when it seems to be much more about hate and intolerance. Spontaneous creation by a supreme being that made us in his form and just as we are today. Or just the arguments that are so slanted as to have no credibility at all.

So, yes, I guess in the biggest sense there was creation. But how that happened is a mystery to to me, and very fascinating too. And, of course there has been and currently is adaption going on by all species. Slow, random, good and bad changes through genetic accident.

I'm more about peace and tolerance. Here we are, now what? Do we all kill each other or try to get along? What will it be? The one thing we do know is that we are here now. So where do we go from here? That is much more important than making someone accept my ideas of creation or the afterlife. And fighting destroys the ability to learn.

John

 

T-15, please take this as it's intended, just a simple question for you.

Like you, I grew up in a Christian home that made me go to church. By 14 I refused to go. I didn't mind church but I didn't care for my dad making me go so I rebelled. Life took it's course and here I am.

My question, because I respect your experience and the opinions you have formed over the years is this, if you die tonight where will you go, if you believe we go anywhere at all.

I will not reply to your answer other than to say thanks, just wondering what you think about it.

 

Britt,

Thanks for your sensible and well thought out posts.

John

 

No, that is a very good question and I would welcome a reply from you. My honest answer is “I don’t know”. My personal belief is that when we die, we do just that… die. We turn back to dust. After all, all we are is just a collection of atoms. Nothing more. Am I right (other than the dust and atom part)? I don’t know.

Or do we go to this wonderful place where everyone is going to sing gods’ praises for all eternity or spend eternity where everyone else thinks that I am destined to go. I couldn’t tell you that either.

I still think that some think that I rebelled against the church (and religion for that matter). That is far from what happened. I have never rebelled against the church and I am happy that my family wants to go. I certainly don’t do anything to dissuade them from going. If they get peace from attending church then I am all for it. If they ask me my opinion I won’t lie to them but I think that they accept it… albeit reluctantly.

Britt

 

I'm not sure how many people think my post are sensible but thank you for the compliment.

Britt

 

I find it interesting that some here have faith in the Discovery Channel or Darwin but do not have faith in God.

I can understand why some of you have rebelled against church. The church I grew up in had many flaws and had lost it's sense of direction. There are many churches that have followed in the same path.

My belief is that God created us with needs. The need to fellowship and "hang out" just like we do on these forums. We also were given the ability to love and to receive love. Churches fill some of these needs. Churches are made of people. There are people in churches that have needs...the need to be loved, or accepted. There are also church people that feel that going to church makes them better than someone else.

We also were created to glorify God in all that we do...even though I personally fall short in this area.

 

Thanks. Like many, I have varied opinions about church. One thing for sure, IMHO, is that church is not God. Organized religion, with all it's bells and whistles is a man-made thing. True, God wants us to spend time with other believers to encourage and support one another but I'm not always sure that is what today's church attempts to accomplish. Ours for some reason believes that building buildings is the way to go, frustrating in my opinion.

When I was a kid I really enjoyed the activities at church, it was a blast. But when I got older, the adults really ruined things for me. That is probably the wrong thing to say but it was my experience.

I will leave you with this. If at some point you put your faith in Christ then your destiny is assured, even though you may wonder about it. It's a great thing that God doesn't give up on us or go back on His word.

Thanks for your candid and honest responses.

 

Very well said...

 

I completely agree well said guys.