This is a good post, I was waiting and hoping for a response from the faithful side of the discussion. Interestingly no response. I think this one deserves a response from the faithful side.

 

Good post, Britt. You are completely 100% correct. It does all come down to faith. People get too wrapped around the axle into Apologetics and "proving" the veracity of the Bible and such. I don't think it's needs proof. Why prove that the sky is blue?

We put faith in little things all the time. We trust that our car will start, that the chair will support our weight, and so forth. So faith isn't such a hard thing to come by. But it IS the first thing. How do we get faith?

"Faith comes by hearing-- and hearing, but the Word of God" is what the Bible says about that. In plain language, I take that to mean that as we read the Bible, we can see how God works, who God is, and we can know Him on a personal level.

There's an element of Will involved as well. Faith in God is a conscious decision-- a choice. It's is not a reaction like maybe faith in a car. For example, if my car starts reliably for 2 years straight, it "earns" my trust and I place faith in it. But faith in God isn't a reaction to God "earning" our trust. His nature is trustworthy already. Instead, it becomes a conscious decision to CHOOSE to trust God-- even if our senses tell us that there nothing beyond what they can discern.

This is why faith in God is a spiritual thing as well. The reality of God is spiritually discerned, not through your 5 senses. Sometimes it's as simple as praying like the father of the sick girl in Mark 9 did: "Lord help my unbelief." Such a prayer as this demonstrates faith because you are asking God to help develop within you that seed of faith that was planted by God himself (according to Romans 2, IIRC).

I applaud your personal strength and ability to be a "self made man." Unfortunately, the most independent of us cannot make our own salvation apart from God. We cannot save ourselves. I realize that this isn't a concern for those who do not believe there is any kind of judgement for sin, or that heaven or hell or God even exists.

I was raised very conservative Christian, and I consider myself to be one very much so-- but I don't do "religion". I don't think religion was God's original idea anyway-- it was RELATIONSHIP that He had in mind. Going back to the garden of Eden as the idealized example of God's plan, we see no reference at all to church, denominations, etc etc-- just God and Adam and Eve living in harmony.

One of the fundamental "sanity checks" that any worldview must pass is how it answers the key questions of life: what is my purpose? Where did I come from? Thus, EVERY worldview is essentially "religious" in that sense; it is an organized system of belief. Every worldview is "in essense offering salvation; attempting to solve the human dilemma and renew the world" (Chuck Colson).

JM2CW

 

As you post going back to the Garden of Eden, where Adam and Eve started the beginning of man. Where did the people of color other than white come from? Is there not an answer to this very simple question?

 

As a Bible believing Christian I couldn't agree more with what he said. We, the people of the planet, have a long long way to go to meet God's standard.

Remember, the comment was made about how man treats man. Truth is, it's appalling! Hey, the first brothers, Cain and Abel, Cain kills Abel, what's up with that.

No where in the Bible does God say that a black man is not an equal. As a matter of fact, Jesus embraced everyone around him with the exception of the religious leaders (most of them anyway). Talk about compassion, He even reached out and touched the leper that wanted healing. Here's a guy cut-off from society, couldn't even live with his family, an outcast. Jesus comes along and heals him, now that is how God would act.

Don't mix the deeds of man or the acts of organized (disorganized) religion with who God is. Again the Bible teaches, ""For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD."

All I can say to those who say there is no god, you better be right.

 

Britt, let me echo the comments of the others that your posts are very well-considered and your frankness and honesty is startlingly refreshing.

We are a collection of atoms. But not JUST a collection of atoms. We still don't know how chemicals go from being chemicals to being living things. The chemistry of our bodies doesn't change a single bit between the 10 seconds before we die and the 10 seconds after. Thus we know that something more than just matter and chemicals is occuring.

The Bible says that God breathed life into Adam after making him from the dust. THAT is the life-- and that's why we're not *just* a collection of atoms.

Life to this day is still a mystery, even after we've cracked the DNA code. Even if we sequence the human genome completely, we still will not have MADE life.

We know the chemicals in a sperm and an egg, yet we cannot synthesize an embryo.


How things become living things is itself something of a mystery, and for all our scientific achievements, we still find ourselves unable to explain away the mystery of the the life that God breathed into mankind.

jh

 

Ok that explains the the part how man treats man. But the question still remains. If Adam and Eve where the first humans on earth, and their skin was white. Where did the people of color other than white come from?

 

Where's the proof that Adam and Eve were white?

 

Ok, lots of questions went unanswered here.

For those who are Christians: When you say God is love, that is good. But when they start asking about creation, all I see is "You must have faith." Yes and NO! Faith is sometimes the last step. Do a little research here

For everyone else:

Raspy asked in post #110: "So, to all those that reject evolution please explain just what you are rejecting and how that fits the definition of evolution. Are you saying that no species have changed at all since creation? Or if they have, how did they?"

Let us define "EVOLUTION". What is evolution?


Main Entry:
evo·lu·tion Listen to the pronunciation of evolution
Pronunciation:
\ˌe-və-ˈlü-shən, ˌē-və-\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Latin evolution-, evolutio unrolling, from evolvere
Date:
1622

1: one of a set of prescribed movements
2 a: a process of change in a certain direction : unfolding b: the action or an instance of forming and giving something off : emission c (1): a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state : growth (2): a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance d: something evolved
3: the process of working out or developing
4 a: the historical development of a biological group (as a race or species) : phylogeny b: a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations; also : the process described by this theory
5: the extraction of a mathematical root
6: a process in which the whole universe is a progression of interrelated phenomena

Now let me give a working demonstration: "Evolution has been proven that apes turned into homosapien." That my friend descibes MACRO-Evolution, ie lizard to bird. This is what we are talking about. That is changing from one kind to another. "Are humans getting smarter with time?" That describes MICRO-Evolution, ie Canine-wolf-dog. Evolution with-in a kind. We are not going to talk about that because it has been proven. (How many kinds of cats and dogs are there?)

I do not reject micro but rather macro evolution.

Now on to MACRO: It has not been proven! The Neanderthal man has been mentioned. He (them) was just another human. Check here
There is still not enough evidence to support it.

Raspy also said in post #120: "It demonstrates what I said about there being no conflict between creation and evolution."

There is a conflict. You cannot have a creation without a Creator. God did not start the time clock and let it tick on a shelf. To acknowledge a Creator, you then acknowledge a Supreme Being. Who is this Person? With evolution, ther is no NEED for a Supreme Being. Do you understand?

Raspy also said in post #127: "Much of that rejection has to do with the arguments projected here about why it's true. The bible says so, fossils were only created by the big flood, and endless bible quotes about love, when it seems to be much more about hate and intolerance." Not only does the Bible say that there was a flood but so does every other religion in the world mention a very catastrophic flood. Here is some evidence for the flood This link also describes the Ark.

Britt and Raspy, you both have VERY well thought out posts! I can see where you are coming from! I have had Bible teachers explain why we need to explain the Flood, creation, and evolution, from both sides of the debate! You two are very good at explaining and researching your evidence. Have fun!

Jon

 

Fair enough. How did people of different color come about? I was going to go further and ask more questions in regard to your answer, but I would be happy with an answer to this one first.

 

I'm with you on this one. While the Bible does contain the story of the Tower of Babel and how God scattered and confused the tongues of those involved, it does not come right out and say exactly what that looked like.

I have come to believe that God, through the Bible, does not try to tell us everything that ever happened so as to be an encyclopedia on historical matters. Rather He focused its content on His plan for man's redemption and the revelation of His character. The fact that it includes historical facts is a bonus.

Like many I have a lot of question to ask Him when we meet.

 

Great!!!! Now we are all descendents of Sponge Bob

Sorry, I couldn't help it

 

Even if you consider that Adam and Eve were supposed to be the first source of man it really does not matter what color they were as everyone was purged and re populated with Noah and his clan. Sounds a little like incest . Not a really good image.

 

I appreciate the humor

 

Hey, better SpongeBob than Patrick.

 

Very well said Hohn!

For me it all boils down to John 3:16-18:
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. 17 Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God.