Gas to electricity conversion
03-18-2006, 12:27 PM
#1
It's my pot and I'll stir it if I want to. If you're not careful, I'll stir your's as well!
Thread Starter
Gas to electricity conversion
Got a question for you more edumacted eggheads in DTR-land.
There are some on-going conversations about conserving energy and this reminded me of something I have been thinking about.
I live in an area that has very high electricity costs and low natural gas costs. Is it possible/feasable/practicle to convert NG to electricity? If so, how can this be done? Or would going to solar power be more cost efficient?
There are some on-going conversations about conserving energy and this reminded me of something I have been thinking about.
I live in an area that has very high electricity costs and low natural gas costs. Is it possible/feasable/practicle to convert NG to electricity? If so, how can this be done? Or would going to solar power be more cost efficient?
03-18-2006, 12:40 PM
#3
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Depending on how "low cost" your NG is, a genset run on NG can be a good option. Cost will be determined by your power needs, size if the genset, etc. Good option in my opinion.
03-18-2006, 01:10 PM
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6kw generator with 14.5hp engine will use about 120cf of ng/hr(you may be metric so convert to m3). compare your elect kw cost to ng cf cost and there you go. these consumption are approx. and know the specs for the gen you would be considering. don't forget to factor maint. and convience in.
hope this helps.
Clark
hope this helps.
Clark
03-18-2006, 02:52 PM
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Most units are, at best, 30% efficient. There is a reason electricity cost's 3 times that of natural gas. 100kw of natural gas = 30kw of electricity the rest goes out the rad and the exhaust pipe. If you have a use for the heat, then you can justify it. Cogeneration is the way of the future. The power plant I used to work at put out 700 megawatts of electricity, 960 megawatts went into the river and 675 megawatts went up the stack. Coal was $18cnd per ton and we used 10000 tons per day. Where I work at now we use a gas turbine to make 40 megawatts of power and we recover 50 megawatts of heat off the exhaust. We are probably around 60-65% efficient. 
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03-18-2006, 03:12 PM
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if you have the funds you could install a battery bank and run that through an invertor to make 240 volts and charge the system with a automatic starting generator run on ng.
03-18-2006, 07:14 PM
#11
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I know there are fuel cell units that run on propane. Look around they probably make them that run on natural gas as well. These units would be pricey though.
Solar to batteries with a good inverter are nearly maintenance free but pricey also.
I bought a PDF book from a fellow who runs his whole house off Solar PV. Send me a pvt. email and I'll email you a copy.
Edwin
Solar to batteries with a good inverter are nearly maintenance free but pricey also.
I bought a PDF book from a fellow who runs his whole house off Solar PV. Send me a pvt. email and I'll email you a copy.
Edwin
03-18-2006, 09:26 PM
#12
It's my pot and I'll stir it if I want to. If you're not careful, I'll stir your's as well!
Thread Starter
Thanks guys for the answers.
As far as I know Mexico does not do any buybacks, but will look into it.
Due to the high cost of electricity the majority of stoves, dryers and water heaters are already using gas. Actually not sure if it is propane or NG as it stinks like NG but many folks here call it propane.
The largest user of energy in my house is the fridge. Think when this eventually dies will go for one of those gas fridges, even if the initial cost is high.
Judging from your answers my idea to convert gas to electricity was a crazy idea as it looks like it will not be cost efficient for my case. Solar may be the way to go but for the amount of electricity I consume in a year, that may also not be cost efficient. Have wanted to go solar for years and have been watching the componant prices steadily dropping and becoming more efficient.
As far as I know Mexico does not do any buybacks, but will look into it.
Due to the high cost of electricity the majority of stoves, dryers and water heaters are already using gas. Actually not sure if it is propane or NG as it stinks like NG but many folks here call it propane.
The largest user of energy in my house is the fridge. Think when this eventually dies will go for one of those gas fridges, even if the initial cost is high.
Judging from your answers my idea to convert gas to electricity was a crazy idea as it looks like it will not be cost efficient for my case. Solar may be the way to go but for the amount of electricity I consume in a year, that may also not be cost efficient. Have wanted to go solar for years and have been watching the componant prices steadily dropping and becoming more efficient.
03-19-2006, 04:38 AM
#13
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NG and propane are very similar, the only differences are thier chemical makeup and the amount of BTU contained in a cubic foot.
I would advise against a NG/propane genset. We have 2 of them at a couple of remote communictaion sites that I maintain. The units that we have are 12 kW units. These are made by Generac under the model name Guardian. They are driven by a 2 cylinder air cooled v twin type engine. The engine burns either propane or NG (you have to set the fuel regulator for one or the other). The storage tank for the fuel holds LPG (Liquefied propane gas). LPG is stored and measured in gallons. However since the engine burns GAS and not the liquid fuel the tank is fitted with a vapor withdrawl system. And since it has that the tank can only be filled to 85% to ensure that is has a sufficient gas layer on top of the liquid for the entire system to work. So what means is that for our tank, which is a 500 gallon tank, can only be filled with 425 gallons of LPG.
There is 36.39 cu ft of vapor at 60 deg F in a gallon of LPG. The manual for our generator give fuel consumption in both gallons of LPG and CU. FT/HR for gaseous fuels. When I did the calculations for it the 425 gallon supply will only last for 12 days continuous running. The next model up in the Guardian line is a 4 cyl liquid cooled 20 kW genset. With its fuel comsumption it would run for 4½ days before it runs out of fuel. It would burn a little ofver 100 GALLON PER DAY. To me that is horrible economy and a waste of fuel. Especially since a decent 16 kW 4 cyl DIESEL genset will run almost 20 days on a 500 gallon tank of fuel.
I would not use a NG genset to run a home. The costs for running/maintaining it would not be cheaper than electricity.
I would advise against a NG/propane genset. We have 2 of them at a couple of remote communictaion sites that I maintain. The units that we have are 12 kW units. These are made by Generac under the model name Guardian. They are driven by a 2 cylinder air cooled v twin type engine. The engine burns either propane or NG (you have to set the fuel regulator for one or the other). The storage tank for the fuel holds LPG (Liquefied propane gas). LPG is stored and measured in gallons. However since the engine burns GAS and not the liquid fuel the tank is fitted with a vapor withdrawl system. And since it has that the tank can only be filled to 85% to ensure that is has a sufficient gas layer on top of the liquid for the entire system to work. So what means is that for our tank, which is a 500 gallon tank, can only be filled with 425 gallons of LPG.
There is 36.39 cu ft of vapor at 60 deg F in a gallon of LPG. The manual for our generator give fuel consumption in both gallons of LPG and CU. FT/HR for gaseous fuels. When I did the calculations for it the 425 gallon supply will only last for 12 days continuous running. The next model up in the Guardian line is a 4 cyl liquid cooled 20 kW genset. With its fuel comsumption it would run for 4½ days before it runs out of fuel. It would burn a little ofver 100 GALLON PER DAY. To me that is horrible economy and a waste of fuel. Especially since a decent 16 kW 4 cyl DIESEL genset will run almost 20 days on a 500 gallon tank of fuel.
I would not use a NG genset to run a home. The costs for running/maintaining it would not be cheaper than electricity.
03-19-2006, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jrs_dodge_diesel
NG and propane are very similar, the only differences are thier chemical makeup and the amount of BTU contained in a cubic foot.
I would advise against a NG/propane genset. We have 2 of them at a couple of remote communictaion sites that I maintain. The units that we have are 12 kW units. These are made by Generac under the model name Guardian. They are driven by a 2 cylinder air cooled v twin type engine. The engine burns either propane or NG (you have to set the fuel regulator for one or the other). The storage tank for the fuel holds LPG (Liquefied propane gas). LPG is stored and measured in gallons. However since the engine burns GAS and not the liquid fuel the tank is fitted with a vapor withdrawl system. And since it has that the tank can only be filled to 85% to ensure that is has a sufficient gas layer on top of the liquid for the entire system to work. So what means is that for our tank, which is a 500 gallon tank, can only be filled with 425 gallons of LPG.
There is 36.39 cu ft of vapor at 60 deg F in a gallon of LPG. The manual for our generator give fuel consumption in both gallons of LPG and CU. FT/HR for gaseous fuels. When I did the calculations for it the 425 gallon supply will only last for 12 days continuous running. The next model up in the Guardian line is a 4 cyl liquid cooled 20 kW genset. With its fuel comsumption it would run for 4½ days before it runs out of fuel. It would burn a little ofver 100 GALLON PER DAY. To me that is horrible economy and a waste of fuel. Especially since a decent 16 kW 4 cyl DIESEL genset will run almost 20 days on a 500 gallon tank of fuel.
I would not use a NG genset to run a home. The costs for running/maintaining it would not be cheaper than electricity.
I would advise against a NG/propane genset. We have 2 of them at a couple of remote communictaion sites that I maintain. The units that we have are 12 kW units. These are made by Generac under the model name Guardian. They are driven by a 2 cylinder air cooled v twin type engine. The engine burns either propane or NG (you have to set the fuel regulator for one or the other). The storage tank for the fuel holds LPG (Liquefied propane gas). LPG is stored and measured in gallons. However since the engine burns GAS and not the liquid fuel the tank is fitted with a vapor withdrawl system. And since it has that the tank can only be filled to 85% to ensure that is has a sufficient gas layer on top of the liquid for the entire system to work. So what means is that for our tank, which is a 500 gallon tank, can only be filled with 425 gallons of LPG.
There is 36.39 cu ft of vapor at 60 deg F in a gallon of LPG. The manual for our generator give fuel consumption in both gallons of LPG and CU. FT/HR for gaseous fuels. When I did the calculations for it the 425 gallon supply will only last for 12 days continuous running. The next model up in the Guardian line is a 4 cyl liquid cooled 20 kW genset. With its fuel comsumption it would run for 4½ days before it runs out of fuel. It would burn a little ofver 100 GALLON PER DAY. To me that is horrible economy and a waste of fuel. Especially since a decent 16 kW 4 cyl DIESEL genset will run almost 20 days on a 500 gallon tank of fuel.
I would not use a NG genset to run a home. The costs for running/maintaining it would not be cheaper than electricity.
One huge difference: Propane is heavier than air, therefore will settle to the lowest part of your house. Natural Gas is lighter than air so it will dissipate. Less Kaboom factor if you have a leak.
03-19-2006, 12:52 PM
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Mexstan, find out if it is truly NG(methane) or if it might actually be propane.. Propane has more btu/cuft than NG when used in gasoline capable, low compression engines.. (just like gasoline, so no derating as when using "NG")
BUT, put NG(methane) into a NG equipped high comp ratio diesel engine and the efficiency is amazing.. I've always wanted to experiment with one of those single cyl low speed "LISTEROID" diesels and modify it to use NG along with #2D pilot oil ignition. That way they can run on straight #2d or NG/air with <10% #2d pilot fuel ignition. Those low speed 1 and 2 cyl Lister type engines will run FOR-EV-ER... Parts are cheap too! Hooked to a 5KW alternator and it'll crank out ~3-1/2 KW all year long...
Most high compr spark ignition(SI) NG engines (Cummins makes 'em too) are based on proven diesel engine design blocks. Heads are different, to accommodate the spark plugs..
BUT, if your "NG" is truly propane or other heavier gaseous LP fuels, don't try it as it will detonate like gasoline in a diesel engine.
K.
BUT, put NG(methane) into a NG equipped high comp ratio diesel engine and the efficiency is amazing.. I've always wanted to experiment with one of those single cyl low speed "LISTEROID" diesels and modify it to use NG along with #2D pilot oil ignition. That way they can run on straight #2d or NG/air with <10% #2d pilot fuel ignition. Those low speed 1 and 2 cyl Lister type engines will run FOR-EV-ER... Parts are cheap too! Hooked to a 5KW alternator and it'll crank out ~3-1/2 KW all year long...
Most high compr spark ignition(SI) NG engines (Cummins makes 'em too) are based on proven diesel engine design blocks. Heads are different, to accommodate the spark plugs..
BUT, if your "NG" is truly propane or other heavier gaseous LP fuels, don't try it as it will detonate like gasoline in a diesel engine.
K.