Reading all this with great interest. Too late in the season for me now but early next year I want to plant a variety of vegetables so will be doing research as to what is more suited for my climate and soil.

Changing from vegetables to water for a moment. Has anyone had any experience with earth dams? I am going to try an build one but there is a problem. There are many dams in my area but none hold the water for very long as the soil is very porous. Someone suggested to spread betonite clay on all the areas the water touches. Another suggested using plastic sheets. Any other suggestions as to how I can keep the water from draining away?

 

Mexstan,

The bentonite method is the cheapest and in my opinion is the best way to seal a dam if done right. The bentonite should be spread in the dam, worked in with a disc (usually about 6-12 inches), and packed to form a good watertight dam. The bentonite is absorbtive clay that will swell once in contact with water and form an impermeable layer.

Dam construction is also very important. Usually material is taken from an area within the dam to be used as the face. It is very important to strip all the topsoil from the area that will become the face so you do not make a layer that will permit the flow of water. Once the topsoil is stripped the fill dirt should be worked in with the existing and packed. The whole face should be built up in this fashion making sure you work the soil (a disc works well) and don't end up with layers that permit the flow of water.

 

packfan25, thanks for the info. So far I have no idea where to obtain bentonite clay in my area. When I mention this I get blank stares but have some other people to check with later that may know. No worries about the topsoil as I will be using the soil from an already eroded area to make the wall. Just scrape this away to make the dam deeper.
Now, discing the clay into the soil is another question. So far have not seen a disc in that area. Have been thinking about buying a small walk behind tiller and maybe can use that for the dam as well as my garden.
How thick a layer of this clay should be spread bgefore discing it in? Or did you mean the clay should be 6-12 inches deep?
What do you mean by packing the earth? Like just driving over it with my truck?

 

Sorry I guess that wasn't to clear. Usually about 2 inches of bentonite and work it in with 6-12 inches of existing soil. As far as packing the area we usually use our scraper wheels or a roller packer pulled behind a tractor.

In our area we are lucky to have a big bentonite plant so obtaining bentonite is quite easy. I don't know what kind of money you are looking to put into this dam or how big it is but a soil analysis from a local geotechnical firm might be worth the money. Obviously I don't know the soils in that area but they could even give you some suggestions and a better recommendation on an amount of bentonite or other soil to use.

Hope this helps,

John

 

Just happen to have some soil here now which is going away (to Ca.) for analysis next week as I am thinking about building using the rammed earth method and need it for that. I have asked them to also look at what to do to treat the soil for dam use. Will let you know the results.
Everything I do here must be done as cheaply as possible so there is not much money available for the dam. One reason for the cheap as possible is to hopefully use these methods for others around me to copy. The locals are very poor.
Thanks for your help so far.

 

Another question for all you green thumber's.
I have some property out in the boondocks with a lot of small fir and pine trees. Trees are between 6 inches and 10 feet tall. Most around two feet high. No water source just yet. Due to a road I am putting in I have been forced to relocate a bunch of these trees. The rainy season has just ended so it is not a good time to do this. Most days are beautifully clear but the sun is quite hot. Average daily temp is around 60-70 degrees F. A bit cool as it is at an altitude of 8000 feet. I have added old leaves etc around the base of each tree to try and cut down the evaporation. Right now I have a 1100 litre tank on the back of my truck and go out every two days to water the relocated trees. A 70 mile round trip. BTW, the water sloshing in the tank makes for some wierd movement of the truck.
My questions are: I have heard of getting old pop bottles and drilling a very small hole in the cap and then placing these bottles upside down by each tree. Do I partially bury these bottles next to each tree? Or do I hang them on each tree? How small a hole do I drill in the cap? Will this idea work? Any other ideas or suggestions?
Thanks.

 

Holy cow! It came back. ;D

Hi Mexstan,

Bury the bottle and try not to distrub the roots. Best time to install the bottle is when you are relocating the trees. Use as big of a bottle as possible to keep more even moisture and fewer trips per week to fill up. Not so sure a 2 liter would be big enough :-. I have only seen them buried. How would you fill a 2 liter that is upside down and buried ??? :P. Remember that these will be in the ground "forever". Use something that will not deteriorate. With large bottle, drill 3 holes in bottom and bury (leave top accessable :P) Make sure you have lids (evaporation). Also, you really need 2 per tree, 180° apart. Try to get them as deep as possible so the roots do not run shallow...You can also supply fertilizer through your bottles straight to the roots....

I have used 3.5mm and 4.5mm holes before. Your soil will dictate this due to drainage. May need to test various sizes....more or less holes.

Hope this works well for you.

John

 

[quote author=Mexstan link=board=10;threadid=19946;start=0#msg187614 date=1064241454]
Great idea. Any of you green thumbs out there have any suggestions for irrigation using minimal water at low pressure. How about drip irrigation? Have read that it is the best way to go. Need irrigation for fruit trees, veggies and flowers. Water is in short supply here during summer. Too much right now.[/quote]

I ran a dry farm in Wyoming for several years. Irrigation from the sky, no ground water to speak of and no piped in water supplies. We collected all our rainwater and snow melt in several 1000-gal cisterns, then using it sparingly for the home and leftover for small garden. Our grey water was filtered and run into the garden on a drip line. Otherwise we relied solely on what came from the sky for our corn (maize), pinto beans and squash.

As to stabilizing red sandstone, which when wet becomes clay like, we did by terracing. While some folks would rather not use this materiel, we used really old railroad ties, ones that had very little cresote left in them. We also gathered up large already dead trees and hauled them to the farm, where we used them as barriers, with cement in between, like chinking. Now it's hard to imagine doing five acres of gardens this way, but it worked for us.

 

JKE, thanks. Have been experimenting. So far three 3/32 holes are too much as a two litre bottle drains overnight. Today am trying just one 3/32 hole and start from there. Found some plastic bottles of around 4 litres (1 gal) that I can use for the larger trees.
Induchman, when I mentioned stabilizing the earth, maybe that is the wrong term. This is more or less level ground. I need to find a way to stop water leaking out thru it when I make an earth dam. This smeans the bottom and the dam wall. Still can't find a source of bentonite clay but have some other sources still to check.

 

In our ditches, we used plastiscized (tyvek) orange ditch cloth about 3 or 4 mil thickness. Put that down first. Build a frame of wood, then use rock (washed gravel, stone, boulders) whatever you have then dirt over it. Allow it to fill and see where if it leaks. It shouldn't.

Bentonite is drillers mud. Super slick and slimy. Not good for dam building. Bentonite plants around WY now have converted a portion of their ops to mfg of cat litter. They make more money from it.

 

Actually bentonite is very good for dam building. When water hits it it swells and seals up really tight. The best way to put it in a dam is mixed with the soil that is already there. It is also a cheap way to seal dams if it is available in your area.

 

[quote author=packfan25 link=board=10;threadid=19946;start=30#msg213505 date=1069692281]
Actually bentonite is very good for d**n building. When water hits it it swells and seals up really tight. The best way to put it in a d**n is mixed with the soil that is already there. It is also a cheap way to seal damns if it is available in your area.
[/quote]

Bentonite's primary usage is to lubricate oil and water well drills and I know that Halliburton uses it for other purposes like retention ponds. But, the fellow in Mexico has no source for it. So unless you plan on driving an 60000# load of it down to his location, he needs to find an acceptable alternative.


It can be accomplished two ways:

a) He needs to ditch his land in such a way as to follow the contours, using seasonable water to HIS best advantage. That means using small dams constructed of locally AVAILABLE materiels.

b) The alternative is to have several centrally located water tanks on platforms (2-4ft high) connected to drip irrigation lines. How you get the water into the tanks can be simple or difficult. We used a 2-hp centrifugal pump to transfer water from the ditch to the water tanks. One was truck mounted. That one re-transfered the water to the remote tanks. 250-gal of water when used on drip lines lasted about four days of two hour timed runnings.

 

Timing at night right? Early, late, dusk, dawn.....?

 

He's at fairly high elevation like where I lived, so temps can soar during the daytime, so we timed everything to work around 8PM. That way the water will have been absorbed and used long before daylight.

 

Update.
Sent a sample of soil away to California for testing. They made test blocks from it. For building using the rammed earth method they suggested using a mix of 25% sand and 75% soil. NO cement. Now that was a surprise. They said if I wanted a really strong wall to use 5-7% Portland cement.
For the dam they suggested that the soil there would not be very pourus if I mix in a 2 inch thick layer of building sand and to use a rototiller to mix it. Then tamp it down as much as possible.
Another question. I need to buy a 1000 gallon septic tank and can't get what I want down here. Can anyone suggest where to buy this along the TexMex border from Brownsville to San Antonio? McAllen is best for me but if necessary will even go up to Austin. So far can't find a dealer on the internet.
And another question. Need to buy a good 7 HP minimum, rear tine tiller. Counterrotating prefered. If possible do not want to spend over $1000. Where to buy? Used is OK. Any recommendations on the best brands and what brands to avoid?