Your being a civil engineer, I have to ask you about the Transportation Conference you attended. Saying speed is the leading cause of rural traffic accidents, to me, is kind of like saying guns kill people. It would seem to me a persons lack of ability to control a vehicle at speed is more than likely the cause of the accidents.
I've always thought there should be a driver rating system with some type of marking on your vehicle. The people that have proven the ability to maintain control of a vehicle at higher rates of speed should be allowed to drive at higher rates of speed. Obviously this isn't going to work for in town driving or rush hour, but, if I've proven, say through a high performance driving schools, SCCA racing license, etc, that I am able to control a vehicle at a higher rate of speed than some others why not allow me to drive at a higher rate of speed. Example interstate frwy light traffic, weather permitting, I get to drive 80mph instead of 70mph.
What do think?

 

Over here in Germany, the legal age to get your licence is 18 and this is only after taking the mandatory driving class. This isn't like the ones that we have in the states ... these kids actually have to know what they are doing in order to finish the class. If they are slow learners ... they spend more time in the class (at their expense ... possibly in the $ 1K range) until they reach the proficiency level required. They drive at higher speeds than we do, with some areas on the Autobahn having no speed limit at all and statistics show that there are fewer wrecks than we have in the states. Having to pay that much money just to get the license and then go through the rigorous training seems to pay dividends.

I don't know if that makes you any more qualified to take your Lamborghini or Ferrari to its top speed but that happens from time to time here.

PISTOL

 

That much I knew. The rest (below) has changed since I was that age (which wasn't TOO long ago).

That said, I still think the new Texas laws stated above is a good way to do it.

 

I think some of the confusion lies in that I meant rural road accidents, not just "rural" accidents... an interstate or freeway is far from a rural road even if it's in BFE. The study focused solely on two-lane paved roads in rural areas(mostly outside city limits) and was limited to traffic accidents in Kansas... we have a ton of rural roads. Rural roads are not designed for high speed operation. The road itself is quite capable of handling a vehicle traveling at any rate of speed but has no shoulders and usually has steep ditch slopes making recovery nearly impossible at high speeds. That's where the danger lies. Rural roads also don't have the same requirements for clear zone and sight distances that a freeway has. Basically, if you leave the traveled way your chance of bringing your vehicle back onto the surface is close to nil and your chance to stop the vehicle before hitting an object is also not good... think telephone poll, fence post, tree, etc....

4-lane divided roads are designed much differently. They have larger clear zones, greater sight distance and most importantly they have 6' - 10' shoulders with mild and easily recoverable ditch slopes. They also have limited access so that vehicles can only enter or leave the traveled way at pre-determined points... no driveways, no at-grade intersections. In Kansas the speed limit is restricted to 70 mph on such highways while it is usually 45-65 mph on rural roads; depending on all the design factors I previously talked about. Obviously each state has their own laws regarding speed.

Of course there is always one unknown and that is other drivers. Someone pulls out in front of you while you're speeding and your chance of stopping in time is greatly diminshed.... goes back to the sight distance issue. You may think that would fall under a different classification, driver error, but in most cases, traveling at the posted speed will allow you the proper sight distance to stop the vehicle or avoid a collision even if the other driver needs to remove head from behind.

As far as taking a class to be able to travel faster I think it's an interesting idea. I don't disagree that on uninterrupted stretches of interstate, higher rates of speed can be maintained with little or no incidence. I remember when I lived in Colorado for a summer I was in heaven because the speed limit was 75 mph in places and I thought that was just the cats meow. A point of consideration is that even people who wouldn't be "licensed" to drive faster will inevitably drive faster.

But again, the study was about rural roads which account for many more vehicle miles traveled in the US than 'freeways' or 'interstates'.

 

I( am 17 now(will be 18 in November), and have had my liscence right at a year. I have been pulled over once for barking the tires at 12:00 at night with no one but a few people around(i was leaving to go home). I didnt get a ticket, but i have driven a little more calm since then. I generaly drive good, and run along with traffic. I dont go to much over the limit very often. I love having my liscence, and i had to ride the bus about 1.5 hours every morning, and every afternoon before i got my liscence, and i dont plan on ever having to do that again. It just plain sucked. It all depends on how mature younger drivers are. I think i drive as good as anyone most the time, and my drivers Ed teacher told me i was one of the best drivers hed had. I used to drive my grandfathers old f-150 3 speed on the column, and i have had a go-cart since i was 4, and a fourwheeler since i was about 12 or so. Ive never had an accident on the 4 wheeler, or driving. I have been driving our tractors helping dad bale hay since i was 7 y/o. I feel i can drive as good as anyone else on the road(but dont we all? ). Anyways. Im with the philosiphy that making kids wait longer doesent help anything. Making them get there permits sooner, and keep them longer would i think.

Eric

 

Looks like Britt has a good idea - no drivers license until after you are married and have kids of your own (or turn 35, whichever comes first) !!

Seriously, it seems like maturity is the main factor and age has very little to do with it as I'm sure we've all known adults over 35 that shouldn't be on the roads (like that mom in the mini-van with unbuckled kids crawling over everything) and kids under 16 that were ready. Too bad we can't restrict licenses based on a persons maturity.

 

I would rather share the road with a testosterone poisioned 16 year old than an old man in a hat driving a Grand Marquis.

 

2 words you dont say,,,,,,,NEVER, and ALWAYS.

You have basically sealed you fate bud. Get ready, cuz its coming!


One thing is for certain, not everyone grows up at the same rate. Some people learn from thier mistakes, and some dont. Some people have to pee on the electric fence 5 times before they realize where the shocking sensation is coming from.

 

agreed.

There should be an age where you have to take a hearing/sight test to get your liscense renewed.

My grandad is at an age (80's) where he should not be driving, but he got his liscense renewed through the mail, and it will last him to 2011. He could not pass the hearing test, or eye test if he had to. Its sad becuase we are trying to find a way to take away the very last piece of independence he has. It sucks, but it is for the better.

My wife had 2 friend burn up in a car when she was 17. An old lady pulled into thier lane and they collided @ 70mph. She had had her liscense pulled, and was not supposed to be driving. She propbly never saw them coming. I think she even lived through it. Those poor boys.

 

Yeah...but let's leave Fiver Bob out of this.

Oh wait....he's not here to defend himself.

 

Okay...the other side, I guess!!!

19 years old, 20 in a month. March 1, 2003 I rearended a car in front of me, which rearended the car in front of her, which rearended the car in front of him. All totaled up, My truck, and 3 cars. One car totaled ($1500), and the other two with minor damage ($1500 for both), and I paid to fix my truck. Was cited for Failure to Follow with an Assured Clear Distance and lost my liscence for 30 days with work privleges.

Am I a better driver now, YES, without a doubt. Was it because I was incompetent before, Hell No! But as a 16 year old driving a truck that's low on fuel, you forget where your eyes need to be 99.99999% of the time! Other than a bogus stoplight ticket about 6 months ago, I've been clean ever since (and a DOT ticket which had nothing to do with my driving, just WHAT I was driving )

I've been driving on the road by myself (or with my younger brother who's 2 years younger) since I was 14. I would pass the local cops who knew me and the truck I was driving, and that I was not old enough to have my liscence. They did know that I knew what I was doing, and that one phonecall informing my parents that I was out screwing around would make my life miserable. That is the biggest reason (other than experience) that I am as good of driver as I am. Also, in the time I've had my liscence (about 3 years now) I've driven ~165K miles with one major incident, I don't consider that too bad for a 20 year old, but that's just me

Whoops....
Chris

 

ive been driving since i was 8, no accidents blah blah blah,

Got my learners at 14, got my liscence at 16. I think that is the way too go. 2 years driving with your parents gets you fairly prepared. Lets be honest age holds no grounds for driving. I saw a 60 y/o man driving his viper at 120mph the other day. There will always be this. Drinking age is 18, driving is 16. Its a fact of life. The fact is no matter where you go there are idiots. Some days i am one of them, but i have been racing on/off since i was 8, between motocross, and stock cars. So when i drive like an idiot i have the experiance too help me with the situation. I think that if ppl want too drive like an idiot and cause an accident(myslef included) take their liscence away for 3-6 months. They will learn pretty quick how much of a priveledge driving really is. Especially in a city where work is sometimes 30 miles away and public transit only runs certain hours.

Just my piece of the pie

 

Man that's a tough one - I think that Ontario, Canada has gone part way towards what is needed - a Graduated lic. system that puts limits on what a new driver can do (such as night driving, big freeway driving)...

I know myself at age 16, I got my lic. 1 week later, I was heading out of the small town I live in at night, was heading for Lake Erie to meet some friends on the beach... Well this guy in this dang BIG pickup truck (HA! Funny to think about it now since I have the big truck) was tail gating me - REAL close - I was doing the speed limit & he didn't like that - And well I got REAL nervous - SO I though I'll turn off on the next road - It goes to the Lake too, but a bit out of the way...

Well one problem - I choose the road one before the one I wanted - And this one went into a Quarry - and after coming over a hill, had a chain link fence across it (NO warning signs in advance) - Well lots of squeeling brakes, and I put my Father's old Pontiac Peresian (sp?) through the chain link gate up to the windshild! Also, had a piece of 2 inch pipe bend & come THROUGH the windshield just inches from my head! At that time, the Iron Maiden tape I was playing on the radio nice & loud didn't sound so good to me any more!!

That resulted in my first (and ONLY!) time in the back of a police cruiser... And a week later resulted in me being charged with carless driving & losing my lic. for a while - The cop said the reason I was charged was because the road was NOT a private road, but was a county road. If it had been a private road there would have been no charges - Years later I though HEY this isn't RIGHT! NO warning signs, a public road, with a chain link gate across it, not even street lights?!

IN any case, I think I would have definitely benefited from a more graduated lic. period where you needed to spend MORE time with a Lic. driver and where you had certain restrictions at first (like night driving).

I definitely can say that the experience DID teach me a lot (although I was scared to drive for several years after that). 20 years later I'm definitely a much BETTER driver for having that experience, but I think the trama (and damage) could have been avoided with a better licencing program.


Today, I just shake my head in frustration at what I see people doing & how it seems that HALF the people consider the roads their own exclusive domain & don't LOOK before they move... I also have a BIG pet peve regarding people that do not use their signals, but that's another story!

ZS

 

A wise man (I think it was a Mr. Carlin, but I'm not sure...) once said that the only thing everybody has in common is that they all think they drive better than everybody else...


Honestly, most "idiot driver's" out there aren't always idiots, just that one time when you see them being idiots. Out of the 300 million people who drive in the country, if each driver makes a bone-head move once a week, there's a lot of bone-headed-ness going on. Most people drive just fine 99% (closer to 100%) percent of the time. You just gotta watch out for that oops! moment I know that we all have at least once a week, even if we don't realize it at the time. And then when you consider that 99% of these bone-headed moments are avoided by defensive drivers, and you have the current American transit system.

Of course there are also folk that shouldn't be on the roads at all... But it's not like they have many options. My grandpa's still driving all the time and he's darn near 90; he can walk and talk just fine, and can still beat me in an armwrestling contest, but there's no way he's quick enough to swerve out of the way of somebody making their once-a-week bone-headed lane change and he still drives a whopping 45 MPH through a 65... Once people get to the point that they don't regulary exceed the posted limit by at least 10 MPH, then they shouldn't be able to drive. (We don't really worry about grandpa as he only ever drives along rural farm roads in Defiance, Ohio... Nothing to hit but a stalk of corn...)

I've never gotten a ticket- done plenty of stupid and illegal stuff, but never gotten a ticket. (I did get chewed out and patted down once after I drag-raced a Viper from a stop light in a rent-a-cavalier, but he let me go...)

Not that I've never been in the back of a paddy wagon; just not for traffic laws.