Deputy Shot USAF MP - Bad Shoot??
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From: Southern California
Welcome to California...
All I hear on the news and even his own department is not on the officer’s side.
I have been harassed by the cops for doing nothing wrong 2 times so it does exist.
If the guy was doing something wrong then he should pay but not with street justice.
If he did nothing wrong then the police officer should go down and be made to pay restitution, and the department.
Think I heard he had some problems before.
I always carry a camera wherever I go, never know when I might need it.
I talked to a West Covina policeman just last night about this and he said it was a bad shooting, he also said that since everybody has video cameras now, not him personally but they have to be more aware of what they do.
He said some don’t like the in car cameras and have been caught disconnecting them at times.
Although there are a few bad cops, they can make the entire department look bad.
All I hear on the news and even his own department is not on the officer’s side.
I have been harassed by the cops for doing nothing wrong 2 times so it does exist.
If the guy was doing something wrong then he should pay but not with street justice.
If he did nothing wrong then the police officer should go down and be made to pay restitution, and the department.
Think I heard he had some problems before.
I always carry a camera wherever I go, never know when I might need it.
I talked to a West Covina policeman just last night about this and he said it was a bad shooting, he also said that since everybody has video cameras now, not him personally but they have to be more aware of what they do.
He said some don’t like the in car cameras and have been caught disconnecting them at times.
Although there are a few bad cops, they can make the entire department look bad.
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Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Central VA
No Herb, no one said the officer was returning fire. 
My comment was a reply to the earlier post.
My comment was a reply to the earlier post.
originally posted by: RVT223
How does an LE officer manage to shoot a suspect three times and NOT kill the individual being shot? Further evidence that most LE are poor shots at best...remember the Kehoe brothers?
How does an LE officer manage to shoot a suspect three times and NOT kill the individual being shot? Further evidence that most LE are poor shots at best...remember the Kehoe brothers?
DTR's Night Watchman & Poet Laureate
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Lyndon KS
Ok, the LE forums are divided pretty even on this one...
There are those who beleive the voice telling the guy to get up is NOT the deputy, he clearly told the guy to stay down at the beginning of the video.
Now IF that is true, and the hand movement towards the pocket is true, then this is likely a justifiable shoot. Under those cicumstances Ithink most of us would have fired.
If the deputy 1) told him to get up, 2) did NOT see any hand movement inot the pocket, then it is a bad shoot.
I realy hope everyone waits till its been properly reveiwed and proven before cruxifying the deputy OR the Airman.
There are those who beleive the voice telling the guy to get up is NOT the deputy, he clearly told the guy to stay down at the beginning of the video.
Now IF that is true, and the hand movement towards the pocket is true, then this is likely a justifiable shoot. Under those cicumstances Ithink most of us would have fired.
If the deputy 1) told him to get up, 2) did NOT see any hand movement inot the pocket, then it is a bad shoot.
I realy hope everyone waits till its been properly reveiwed and proven before cruxifying the deputy OR the Airman.
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Joined: Mar 2005
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From: AZ
well for one shoot the guy for talking like that to authority. You dont belittle an officer and swear at them.
Two, when hes getting up his right arm goes behind his back.
If i were a cop, and someone was belitting me and swearing at me, then gets up while reaching to their back, id shoot them to.
Watch it closely. Freeze it if you have to.
Two, when hes getting up his right arm goes behind his back.
If i were a cop, and someone was belitting me and swearing at me, then gets up while reaching to their back, id shoot them to.
Watch it closely. Freeze it if you have to.
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From: Boise,ID
Unless you've actually been standing behind the badge in a situation where things could have gone south at anytime, don't crucify the deputy until all the facts come out. At first glance it definately appears to be a questionable shoot. However, as with any situations as complex as a line fo duty shooting there are so many contributing factors that are slow to come to together.
originally posted by: RVT223
How does an LE officer manage to shoot a suspect three times and NOT kill the individual being shot? Further evidence that most LE are poor shots at best...remember the Kehoe brothers?
My only response to this is get in your car, drive at high speeds, utilize the radio with dispatch while driving, get out of your car then run 50-75 yards, draw your weapon and see how accurate you can shoot. If this doesn't do it for you, add some civil liability, combative or beligerant suspect(s). When your system is exposed to high amounts of adrenaline and stress, you begin to lose fine motor skills. Obviously this does not help your marksmanship at all. We are not trained to kill people, we are trained to stop the threat.
Rick
originally posted by: RVT223
How does an LE officer manage to shoot a suspect three times and NOT kill the individual being shot? Further evidence that most LE are poor shots at best...remember the Kehoe brothers?
My only response to this is get in your car, drive at high speeds, utilize the radio with dispatch while driving, get out of your car then run 50-75 yards, draw your weapon and see how accurate you can shoot. If this doesn't do it for you, add some civil liability, combative or beligerant suspect(s). When your system is exposed to high amounts of adrenaline and stress, you begin to lose fine motor skills. Obviously this does not help your marksmanship at all. We are not trained to kill people, we are trained to stop the threat.
Rick
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From: Lyndon KS
Originally Posted by RLee2500
Unless you've actually been standing behind the badge in a situation where things could have gone south at anytime, don't crucify the deputy until all the facts come out. At first glance it definately appears to be a questionable shoot. However, as with any situations as complex as a line fo duty shooting there are so many contributing factors that are slow to come to together.
originally posted by: RVT223
How does an LE officer manage to shoot a suspect three times and NOT kill the individual being shot? Further evidence that most LE are poor shots at best...remember the Kehoe brothers?
My only response to this is get in your car, drive at high speeds, utilize the radio with dispatch while driving, get out of your car then run 50-75 yards, draw your weapon and see how accurate you can shoot. If this doesn't do it for you, add some civil liability, combative or beligerant suspect(s). When your system is exposed to high amounts of adrenaline and stress, you begin to lose fine motor skills. Obviously this does not help your marksmanship at all. We are not trained to kill people, we are trained to stop the threat.
Rick
originally posted by: RVT223
How does an LE officer manage to shoot a suspect three times and NOT kill the individual being shot? Further evidence that most LE are poor shots at best...remember the Kehoe brothers?
My only response to this is get in your car, drive at high speeds, utilize the radio with dispatch while driving, get out of your car then run 50-75 yards, draw your weapon and see how accurate you can shoot. If this doesn't do it for you, add some civil liability, combative or beligerant suspect(s). When your system is exposed to high amounts of adrenaline and stress, you begin to lose fine motor skills. Obviously this does not help your marksmanship at all. We are not trained to kill people, we are trained to stop the threat.
Rick
OK.... found it.
Here is the PART of the video they have been showing on Tv
http://www.ktvu.com/video/6653315/detail.html
To me it sound like the deputy may have been saying DONT get up, with part of it covered by the suspects voice on the tape. The " shut up" afterwards is clearly directed at the second suspect, not at the shooting victim.
The suspect DOES reach for a pocket at one point, immediatly before the time shots are fired.
To me it is very INCONCLUSIVE. Whether the deputy was justified or not is dependant on what HE beleive the situation to be, not what we think it may have been based on this tape.
There is no clear cut evidence either way, so lets with-hold judgement untill the facts are brought out.
DTR's Night Watchman & Poet Laureate
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From: Lyndon KS
Oh, one further note, as far as the suspect telling the officer he was militaryand on his side?
The last six months I was in Law enforcement I was shot at three times, all three times the shooters were military, and one of them was an MP.
Ask any cop how many drunks ect will tell ya they are FBI, or "working with the undercover guys" ect ect ect. You hear it all teh time, its cliche. I dont know any officer who would not have ignored his remarks about that.
The last six months I was in Law enforcement I was shot at three times, all three times the shooters were military, and one of them was an MP.
Ask any cop how many drunks ect will tell ya they are FBI, or "working with the undercover guys" ect ect ect. You hear it all teh time, its cliche. I dont know any officer who would not have ignored his remarks about that.
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Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Eastern & Western Merryland
I agree that everyone needs to maintain a level head on this one; but after watching the first portion of the video up to the shots being fired, it sounds to me like the officer told the airman to get up. I think the operative word would be "DOWN"; and not, "don't get up".
Not knowing that someone was video taping the event, my gut says that the officer had a hair trigger attitude at that moment, and was egging the kid on (a "rich" punk in a 'vette) to try and flee; where multiple shots at short range might be grounds for a justified shooting in order to stop a fleeing suspect.
I dunno, but in the last jury trial I was on, there was no time limit requirement for "pre-meditation". Could be a week, could be less than a second.
Yeah, anyone else would be sitting in a cold cell for doing that.
Not knowing that someone was video taping the event, my gut says that the officer had a hair trigger attitude at that moment, and was egging the kid on (a "rich" punk in a 'vette) to try and flee; where multiple shots at short range might be grounds for a justified shooting in order to stop a fleeing suspect.
I dunno, but in the last jury trial I was on, there was no time limit requirement for "pre-meditation". Could be a week, could be less than a second.
Yeah, anyone else would be sitting in a cold cell for doing that.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2004
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I dunno, its hard to say. Video is really dark and its hard to tell who is saying what. Im not taking any sides here untill more comes to light. The one thing I will say, the kid that got shot, being an MP should of known better than to put himself in that situation in the first place. Fleeing from the cops, can you say stupid 
passenger or not, still stupid.
passenger or not, still stupid.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Maineville, Ohio
Originally Posted by phox_mulder
We need to remember that the video shown on TV is what the media wants us to see.
We don't see the before, or the after, just the shooting.
I'm betting that it will end up a justified shooting,
but there will still be a civil suit against the officer and the department.
There was an incident around here a while back,
similair circumstances, chase followed by the perp getting out of the car when the officer ordered him to.
He chose to grab a shiny cylindrical object as he was exiting the vehicle, so the officer fired, killing the perp.
Turns out that the object was a bud light can, but at the time (dark) the officer just saw something shiny in the guys hand, and rightfully fired.
Internal Affairs cleared him, but the family later sued in civil court.
phox
We don't see the before, or the after, just the shooting.
I'm betting that it will end up a justified shooting,
but there will still be a civil suit against the officer and the department.
There was an incident around here a while back,
similair circumstances, chase followed by the perp getting out of the car when the officer ordered him to.
He chose to grab a shiny cylindrical object as he was exiting the vehicle, so the officer fired, killing the perp.
Turns out that the object was a bud light can, but at the time (dark) the officer just saw something shiny in the guys hand, and rightfully fired.
Internal Affairs cleared him, but the family later sued in civil court.
phox
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From: Sandy, Utah
Originally Posted by durasmack
Phox, have you gotten the video through your newsroom? I was wondering if you have come across the full version of the tape and could shed some more light on what happened.
phox
