Chevy Camaro
09-17-2007, 06:33 PM
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Chevy Camaro
Hey guys, lookin' at a Camaro to be my first car. The one I have been lookin at is a '91 Camaro RS V8 auto. She needs a paint job, I can deal with current condition though, a dash mat, radio (I can sing to myself though lol), and the A/C needs Freon. He wants $3495 for it, the car has 47k miles and only one owner. Y'all think this is a good deal? I'm thinkin' about trying to talk him down to $2500 since I'm gonna pay cash. Do any of y'all know of good upgrades to do to this car? Any recommended companies? I was thinking bout running true dual exhaust, high flow cats and straight out, no mufflers. She should be real loud, the loudest at school and gonna try and win Loudest Truck (won't be truck anymore lol) Contest for homecoming. I need to buy a car because trucks are getting to be too expensive and I want to do too much to a truck. Thanks for the help
09-17-2007, 06:46 PM
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Put some mufflers on. I test drove a Chevy with duals, headers and glasspacks. The 3 miles I drove it was almost unbearable. Do some research on mufflers. That way the po-po don't knock ya for not having one.
Jon
Jon
09-17-2007, 07:29 PM
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09-17-2007, 07:31 PM
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What's your reason for the mufflers? Too loud, or not enough back pressure. Our thing over here is loud cars and trucks, so I can stand it. I think I'm gonna do headers to duals. Glasspacks make exhaust louder though, than straight pipes. Idk, I will figure it out when and if I get it, hopefully it won't be like the Trans-am.
09-17-2007, 08:45 PM
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A guy I know put on Dynomax Ultra-Flo mufflers on his truck. Nice deep rumble on start-up and cruisin' but when you need it too, it will perform.
And yes, gassers like a little back pressure.
And yes, gassers like a little back pressure.
09-18-2007, 12:10 AM
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Based on this being your first car, I'm guessing you are relatively young. If that is the case, you might want to check into insurance rates on that car before pulling the trigger. Might be some sticker shock so to speak. Your truck might look cheap after pricing out the costs for this car.
Sounds like you like to tinker with vehicles too. That can be a good-news/bad-news situation with Camaros. The good news is there are TONS of parts out there to do anything you can imagine, and those parts tend to be relatively cheap. The bad news, there are TONS of parts out there to do anything you can imagine, and if you're the tinkerer it seems you might be, you will be spending all your time and money modifying the car. You can make things as simple and cheap, or as difficult and expensive as you wish with a small block Chevy and a later model Camaro. 91's were still relatively easy to work on. 93 and newer are a complete pain in the backside to work on.
Not sure about car prices in your area, but $3500 for that car in that condition around here would not be that good of a deal. The $2500 you want to offer seems more in line, maybe even a little less. I think the 91 RS had a 305 in it, which is not exactly a powerhouse of a v8. It's almost the worst of both worlds. Mileage of a v8 without significant hp to go with it.
Rather than comment any more on the car in question, allow me to ask a question. What do you want out of a car that you purchase? Make a list of the top 3-5 things you'd like to see in your next car, share them if you wish, or don't if you don't, and compare that list to the car. Is it a good match? Do you want reliability? performance? if so, straight line, cornering, stopping, or what? Looks? Economy? # of passengers and stuff you might want to carry? Ease of maintenance if you will perform yourself? Creature comforts? Lots of other things to consider... Take a few minutes and be realistic about what you'd like to have in a car.
Sounds like you like to tinker with vehicles too. That can be a good-news/bad-news situation with Camaros. The good news is there are TONS of parts out there to do anything you can imagine, and those parts tend to be relatively cheap. The bad news, there are TONS of parts out there to do anything you can imagine, and if you're the tinkerer it seems you might be, you will be spending all your time and money modifying the car. You can make things as simple and cheap, or as difficult and expensive as you wish with a small block Chevy and a later model Camaro. 91's were still relatively easy to work on. 93 and newer are a complete pain in the backside to work on.
Not sure about car prices in your area, but $3500 for that car in that condition around here would not be that good of a deal. The $2500 you want to offer seems more in line, maybe even a little less. I think the 91 RS had a 305 in it, which is not exactly a powerhouse of a v8. It's almost the worst of both worlds. Mileage of a v8 without significant hp to go with it.
Rather than comment any more on the car in question, allow me to ask a question. What do you want out of a car that you purchase? Make a list of the top 3-5 things you'd like to see in your next car, share them if you wish, or don't if you don't, and compare that list to the car. Is it a good match? Do you want reliability? performance? if so, straight line, cornering, stopping, or what? Looks? Economy? # of passengers and stuff you might want to carry? Ease of maintenance if you will perform yourself? Creature comforts? Lots of other things to consider... Take a few minutes and be realistic about what you'd like to have in a car.
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09-18-2007, 07:55 AM
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I think the 91 RS had a 305 in it, which is not exactly a powerhouse of a v8. It's almost the worst of both worlds. Mileage of a v8 without significant hp to go with it.
There are TONS of modifications you can make to these cars. The most popular are ditching the throttle-body injection for conversion to carb or Tuned-Port. I've converted mine to Tuned Port and it really woke that 305 up.
Headers and exhaust are probably the 2nd most popular mod. You won't be able to run tru duals without some major fabrication work. Take a look under there and you'll see what I mean.
Other than the basic performance/hp upgrades, the 3rd Generation F-body is an excellent platform, IMO. Tons of suspension upgrades are available and they're easy to work on.
That price is a bit high. $2500 is probably reasonable, maybe $2750 with the low miles. Good luck finding a dash pad for it, and be prepared to spend $150-$200 for it.
Check out www.thirdgen.org for all you ever need to know!
Dave
09-18-2007, 08:33 AM
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The 305 certainly was no slouch, but that price is way, way too high.
Offer him 1500 cash and don't vary too far above that, 1900 would be high.
Figure what it will cost for the paint, 2-3K and the AC work, 5-9 hundred........ Even if you do it yourself, you don't want him to get the $$.
To put it in better perspective, I have a beautiful 82 Missouri rust free T-top Camaro with new paint and if I get 2500 for it I will be doing backflips.....
Offer him 1500 cash and don't vary too far above that, 1900 would be high.
Figure what it will cost for the paint, 2-3K and the AC work, 5-9 hundred........ Even if you do it yourself, you don't want him to get the $$.
To put it in better perspective, I have a beautiful 82 Missouri rust free T-top Camaro with new paint and if I get 2500 for it I will be doing backflips.....
09-18-2007, 10:48 AM
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Trying to add performance parts to a 305 Throttle Body Injection (TBI) Camaro is pointless. Those cars come with MAYBE 180hp from the factory. $3500 is high for that car. For $4000-4500 you could get a LT1 camaro (93-97 V8) and actually have fun while pushing the accelerator down. Or, you could get the Tuned Port cars (TPI) from those years. The Tuned Port motors came in 305 and 350. The tuned port 305's only had 235 hp from the factory and the 350s had 245hp but about 340ft lbs of torque.
I could go all day on this, but here's the big issue. Don't buy that car for 3500, don't buy it for 2500, maybe for 2000, BUT, you still have to get teh A/C blowing cold and it won't be "just put some freon in it". That's a load of crap. Besides that it's R12, VERY hard to find that stuff, and its expensive when you do. You need to stick to a 94 or newer car to get away from R12 and get to R134. To get the A/C blowing cold on an old car like that you need to replace everything. Condenser ($150), Compressor ($350), Evaporator ($150), Receiver / Dryer ($50), hoses (~$100), paying someone to put a vacuum on it and then put in freon (~$90). Of course you could avoid all this and take the A/C out and put a pulley in place of the compressor for $50. You might even gain 5hp.
I owned the exact car you are looking at when I was 17. They are a "good car". But if you buy it, do not, and I mean do not, go blowing your money on performance parts. My A/C never blew cold, maybe a mild version of cool, but anytime it was above 80 degrees I was sweating. This is all after I "just put some freon in it". They have pimp interiors with the Cadillac back hatch that catches the trunk and pulls it down and power window switches on the middle console.
Don't go putting loud exhaust on it. It's not a mean car. The motor is on the same level as a Buick Roadmaster V8 or an old Pontiac station wagon from the 80s. Mild, mild, mild motor. Just throw a dynomax on it and let it sound deep and mellow, and it will sound good. Heck mine had a rusted hole in the muffler and I got compliments all the time. Nice and deep.
Don't blow your money one a TPI setup. You will only gain maybe 50hp.
Most any modern V6 car will out run you. Northstar V8s will kill you. The only thing you will be able to beat is perhaps some ricers, but if they have two brain cells they can get there cars to hang right beside a old TBI V8.
I could go all day on this, but here's the big issue. Don't buy that car for 3500, don't buy it for 2500, maybe for 2000, BUT, you still have to get teh A/C blowing cold and it won't be "just put some freon in it". That's a load of crap. Besides that it's R12, VERY hard to find that stuff, and its expensive when you do. You need to stick to a 94 or newer car to get away from R12 and get to R134. To get the A/C blowing cold on an old car like that you need to replace everything. Condenser ($150), Compressor ($350), Evaporator ($150), Receiver / Dryer ($50), hoses (~$100), paying someone to put a vacuum on it and then put in freon (~$90). Of course you could avoid all this and take the A/C out and put a pulley in place of the compressor for $50. You might even gain 5hp.
I owned the exact car you are looking at when I was 17. They are a "good car". But if you buy it, do not, and I mean do not, go blowing your money on performance parts. My A/C never blew cold, maybe a mild version of cool, but anytime it was above 80 degrees I was sweating. This is all after I "just put some freon in it". They have pimp interiors with the Cadillac back hatch that catches the trunk and pulls it down and power window switches on the middle console.
Don't go putting loud exhaust on it. It's not a mean car. The motor is on the same level as a Buick Roadmaster V8 or an old Pontiac station wagon from the 80s. Mild, mild, mild motor. Just throw a dynomax on it and let it sound deep and mellow, and it will sound good. Heck mine had a rusted hole in the muffler and I got compliments all the time. Nice and deep.
Don't blow your money one a TPI setup. You will only gain maybe 50hp.
Most any modern V6 car will out run you. Northstar V8s will kill you. The only thing you will be able to beat is perhaps some ricers, but if they have two brain cells they can get there cars to hang right beside a old TBI V8.
09-18-2007, 12:31 PM
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there were variations of the 305, one was a 5.0HO and had that badged on it,
in 83 the 5.0 HO came with a 5 speed, pretty rare car.
that motor had a specific code, like a L** something,
www.f-body.org
if $$ is the main concern, search for a TPI car.
if you can swing it, a LT1 car will make 300hp with simple mods
a local guy has a 150k mile LS1 for $6k, a good LS1 can do ~350hp with simple mods.
search the 'net, and you will find a camaro to match your mullet....
in 83 the 5.0 HO came with a 5 speed, pretty rare car.
that motor had a specific code, like a L** something,
www.f-body.org
if $$ is the main concern, search for a TPI car.
if you can swing it, a LT1 car will make 300hp with simple mods
a local guy has a 150k mile LS1 for $6k, a good LS1 can do ~350hp with simple mods.
search the 'net, and you will find a camaro to match your mullet....
09-18-2007, 04:33 PM
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To tell you in all seriousness, I don't care about the A/C. I hate it, if I need A/C, then the windows are down. I'm starting to realize my money situation and that I don't have those deep pockets I thought I had. Exhaust will probably be the only thing I do to this car. I will try to talk him down as far as I can, and the fact that I'm paying cash should persuade him. I'll figure out what I'm gonna do though, just trying to see if this car is worth my time. I did find a dash for $140 from an online Camaro parts company. That's also one of the reasons I'm trying to buy a Chevy is because the parts are plentiful, almost universal, and are cheap. I'm definetly not going to put a mess load of money into this car, I'm gonna be going to college on loans alone. Thanks for all the help guys.
09-18-2007, 04:42 PM
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He has more money than brains, but the car is sure COOL!
He ditched the factory block and tossed in a 6.0L block, the ones they use in the new Chevy trucks.~Nick
09-18-2007, 06:26 PM
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after reading all this ive gathered that there are quite a few respectable have owned or owners of f-bodys on this site..
if there is one thing ive learned in that particular world.. its that the 3rd gens are like the red headed step children of the camaro world. if youre going to spend 3500 for a camaro wait a bit, save a bit, and buy a 4th gen lt1. the car is a nightmare to work on but, if taken care of, it will take care of you. (just dont look at the opti-spark funny.. itll break) LT1s make decent power and are fair matches for the local 2v 4.6l GTs in your area. They are fun cars to drive and if at all possible get a 6spd which bumps up the fun threshhold quite a bit.
Back to your orginal question and my orginal answer... the 3rd, from the sounds of its condition, isnt worth the 3500. 3500 and a couple months of saving will get you a LT1 and youll never look back... at least in the f-body world. All this being said, youll wish youd bought a LS1
but, thats another topic and thread.
If youre serious about getting a Camaro check these sites out...
http://camaroz28.com/
http://lt1tech.com/
http://ls1tech.com/forums/ <---there is a ton of knowledge on this site but, think out what youre posting first and do some searches. these guys can be kinda harsh sometimes.
if there is one thing ive learned in that particular world.. its that the 3rd gens are like the red headed step children of the camaro world. if youre going to spend 3500 for a camaro wait a bit, save a bit, and buy a 4th gen lt1. the car is a nightmare to work on but, if taken care of, it will take care of you. (just dont look at the opti-spark funny.. itll break) LT1s make decent power and are fair matches for the local 2v 4.6l GTs in your area. They are fun cars to drive and if at all possible get a 6spd which bumps up the fun threshhold quite a bit.
Back to your orginal question and my orginal answer... the 3rd, from the sounds of its condition, isnt worth the 3500. 3500 and a couple months of saving will get you a LT1 and youll never look back... at least in the f-body world. All this being said, youll wish youd bought a LS1
but, thats another topic and thread.If youre serious about getting a Camaro check these sites out...
http://camaroz28.com/
http://lt1tech.com/
http://ls1tech.com/forums/ <---there is a ton of knowledge on this site but, think out what youre posting first and do some searches. these guys can be kinda harsh sometimes.