Maaaannnnn .... I'm so irritated, I could chew nails .

In early April, I called a couple local contractors out to bid on a 30x30 pole barn for my shop. First guy gave me a decent quote but said he couldn't start for 5-6 weeks. Second guy says he's been doing this stuff for years ... slides me a higher quote but says he can start in a week. I tell the second guy that he's too high in price ... I tell him what the other quote was. His eyes bugged a bit and he asked if I have that in writing. I didn't but I told him that I'd give him the phone number for the other guy and he could call himself ... he could even drive up the road and see the same advertised price on a sign inside the other bidders model building.

He thinks on it a bit and comes back with a much lower bid, we shake hands and he leaves. He comes back the next day with a contract .... everything is as agreed to the day before. Being a small local builder, I know that he does things on a "pay as you go" basis ... so we agree on terms to pay 50% to start, 25% at the half way point and 25% upon completion. We sign the deal and he gets the first 50% check.

He had materials delivered by the end of the first week ... and ssllloooowwwwllllyyy digs the post holes a week later. One guy and a clamshell post hole digger. Whines that the dirt is too hard ... gotta rent a machine. (two weeks prior, my 19 y/o son dug 15 holes for fence posts not more than 20 feet away with the same style tool ... not a big deal in soft clay).

3 weeks into it and I have a frame built ... by the builder, his girlfriend and one hired hand. Over all, I like the frame but discover one of the posts is a foot off center ... we call him on it, he admits the mistake and he agrees to move it.

He calls and says he's ready to order the rest of the material and needs the next payment .... comes by and picks up the next 25% check.

He has a couple loads of leveling dirt delivered and his one guy and a wheel barrow take 3 days to spread it. The post is still off by a foot ...

So now... we are over a month into a projected 2 week job, he has been paid 75% of the agreed cost and he's only half way done. The contract doesn't have a drop dead date of completion per se, but says he will have the building "substantially complete" by the 14th (yesterday).
Well, yesterday he delivers a letter that says that he took my word about the other guys quote against his better judgement and has tried to do it for that much but has already spent that much in material (lists his material costs - no receipts, just his word) and now can't finish the building. Wants to talk about the price ...

Nothing like trying to strong arm a guy with a half built garage !!

Our realtor (real nice guy) said to give a personal friend of his a call (local justice of the peace) ... thinks this lady can talk some legal sense into the man and may save us the hassel of finding a lawyer.


Anyone else ever face something like this ?? I was straight up with the guy and wasn't looking to go for the cheapest deal ... just wanted my shop up fast .

STUMBLINGOFFMUMBLINGSOMETHINGABOUTEXPLOSIVESPISTOL

 

Well, unfortunately you gave him money up front......if you aren't solvent enough to bill monthly for work completed, then as a GC get the heck out of the business. As an owner you should never pay anything up front. You probably didn't get any certificates of insurance from him either. You can sue him or get a judgment against him, but you can't get blood from a turnip. You are probably sunk. He sounds like a "tail gate" contractor to me. Did he provide you with any lien releases.? If not you may have the concrete company hitting you up for payment of the concrete if he hasn't paid them......I'd call and see if you are OK. I'd call all the suppliers to see if he has paid them. TX sales tax too.

 

Once I passed about 40 years of age I got something like a "6th sense" or some strange ability to see the future, so to speak. I cant really explain it in a paragraph or two, but it seems to have started in a fast food drive-through line.
Something about the persons tone over the speaker that day hit me like a lightning bolt. I said to my friend in the passenger seat, "I am seeing the future, what other place would you like to eat at" He laughed it off and asked what I was talking about....in the end, I was right. Something in the fast foods guys voice triggered me to listen to little cues from that day forward. I then expanded it to people actions. I spent weeks, months and now years watching and listening......trying to put all these little cues into a system I could use to filter or sieve out words, phrases and movements that "mattered" more than others. Yes, I still get a few surprises, but they are very rare and I use those to help me hone my future telling ability. I swear people will tell you up front what they are going to do or what is going to happen next. I can promise you that your contractor told you the same things, silently. You just missed it like I did for decades. Many of us are taught the old saying "actions speak louder than words" but we dont always get the other part; "words and actions tell us whats likely to happen next"

I dont do legal advice very well. Seems my emotions always get it the way or my "thoughts" of what would seem the right thing to do butt heads with the way legal things turn out. I seem to be living in the old west, past tense, get a rope type of justice system. Perhaps an old, less civilized way of thinking these days.

 

Tell him to produce the receipts and go from there. He can eat his time and learn from the experience but if the materials are more then expected, you would have had to pay that much from any contractor.

 

two things. first i will not start a job without a deposit used to do that and would get screwed by the customer sometimes because they are slow to pay or make all kinds of exscuses. second when you bid a job you should know your material cost and last time i checked materials dont jump in prices really fast in a short time unless they are based on current oil prices. if you have a signed contract stateing prices and dates then you can take him to jp court and get something done that way. plus any deposit i get goes directly to pay for materials i can afford labor out of my pocket and most materials but why should i float someones project out of my pocket

 

Because that's how the big boys do it.........get out of the business if you can't stand the heat,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,again I say never give a deposit......how do you know you can trust the Contractor? I have done multi-million dollar projects, and have never taken a deposit, or would any owner consider giving me one,

 

how do i know i can trust the person i'm doing the work for? persons are different then dealing with companies. i know big boys who charge money up and call it a mobilization fee. not too many people i know can afford a 45 day wait for there first pay. plus i have been screwed so for the sum of around 10k from people who wouldnt pay after the work was done. a lien doesnt do a bit of good if they never sell so dont give the me the big boy crap cuz i've seen them go under. i also wont let them unload my trailer if i'm hauling for someone new until i get paid

 

in most states it is illigal for a contractor to collect for materials or labor up front unless the materials are on the job. tx has always had a half *** attitude about the building industry. i built in houston for 7 years and outside of ft worth for a year and half, i know how unregulated the construction industry is there. the good ole boy days are long gone. it use to be a word and a handshake, and if you didn't live up to your word you got the crap beat out of you.
NM and CA are good examples of states that regulate the construction industry.
none of this helps you, if you can get him on something have him arrested. i resorted to that more then once in tx.

 

Annabelle speaks some VERY, VERY good advice!!!
Unfortunately, I know what he's talking about.

No pers details, but: A (formerly) very trusted person, broke it off in us. Left us with a very incomplete house remodel job as he suddenly changed vocations, out-of-state.
He had done the same thing... Left most of his "subs" hanging while we assumed everything was already settled based on his figures (conveniently, no receipts!)
We almost wrote him the balance of what he said he was owed until one Sub ratted him out to us.
We called subs, paid them off, deducted from what he had completed and paid him what was truly owed.

 

On my house I am getting all the lumber delivered directly to me from a reputable lumberyard. Everything is billed directly to me from the lumber yard. The contractor just has to make a call to the lumberyard with what phase he is at and the next set of materials shows up.

A guy using a wheel barrow to leavel dirt is hard to believe. Instead of 3 days labor to spread the dirt. It would have been cheaper to rent a Bobcat for a couple hours

You need to count the poles and the boards and all other materials that are on your job site and figure out what the total cost of that material actually is. I wouldn't take his word on the receipts that he may show you, he maybe taking some materials to another job.

 

Having taken a "turnip" to small claims at the JP, at the very least you can put a lien on the business. The guy will have it over his business head for 10yrs or until he pays off his debts to you.

I don't have any specific advice but wish you luck getting it resolved to your satisfaction. As a maker on a smaller scale I require payment upfront but I also haev materials on hand so I know my costs. The times when I have been burned are when I didn't have materials before quoting a customer. That's a mistake I've learned from. A contractor needs to know how to say no, which this guy didn't. Or he needs to change how he quotes and develop a better system. Unfortunately because of his "business sense" you've had to pay the piper.

Cut your losses and get out of this as fast as you can to stop the bleeding. Take him to task to recover what you can. Put the building on hold IF you can until you have this settled out. Then devote time and resources to the building.

 

I've built 3 pole barns by reputable barn companies located in Okla

paid 50% up front on all 3 barns

paid the 50% balance when the job was completed and met my satisfaction

3 man crews built all 3 who do the work custom for the company, they get paid by the job so they work!!!! that's all they do, one crew indian, one crew hispanic, one crew rodeo hands in the off season

last barn was a 36X48 pole barn with 12' sidewalls

crew showed up and in 1 1/2 days the barn was completed

everyone I know who has ever used local talent it either 1) cost more 2) the work was shoddy 3) it didn't get done on time

the [U]only[U] way to go IMHO, I've had excellent luck using the experts

 

from the law side:

don't know all parts of texas but call the building/code officer. he can do a lot of pressure directly on the contractor. run his name at the local lumberyard, get the copy of the materials bill. same way with dirt fill (dirt under concrete? should be washed gravel but that's just ny state.)
get the vehicle VIN of the contractor when you 'meet'. this is handy for small claims court as you can ask the justice for him to complete an 'information' or listing of his name address bank account all property owned, etc. Justice Courts do NOT collect any money owed, that is up to you! so, get the VIN and send a notice to DMV that this guy owes x amount and you want to file against his vehicle. DMV will hold any driver license/registrations up until the claim is settled. this is the easiest and fastest way to get paid.
now then- you may consider contacting GC #1 and have him do finish work. go to Court (small claims only goes to 3,000 dollar value) for the re payment, again a judgement debtor notice will be issued but you have to do the legwork (go to the sheriff's office and file paperwork for a claim against his house) very effective but time consuming.

you can get a free booklet and the small claims form from any JP court, they will assign a date and notify both parties when to appear, you do not need a lawyer but paperwork is primary evidence.
a common tactic is to have these forms, photo the vehicle and take the VIN from the windshield on the day you meet. Tell him flat out, you are renigging (real word) on the contract and you are ready to take him to Court to pay the second contractor for your building completion. it is the contractor's sole determination to agree on certain work/prices and materials, if he cannot complete his enforced (contract) obligation, then he will forfeit some personal property for sales to cover the debt. stick to your guns. no more excuses on his part, charge him 100 dollars a day for future ineffectiveness on the building time line. hope that helps you.

 

pistolwhipt, sure wish you the best, in rereading my comments it sounded like tx is full of untrustworthy people and that is just not correct. ran a lot of projects and built a few myself the majority of subs were good people win or loose on their bid. those were the ones that created a loyality and you reused them and if you knew they were in trouble on a bid you didn't mind helping them out.
there were the others like the kind you ran into. annebelle being in nm where the penalities for the kind of thing you ran into are the harshest of the four states i have built in. nm doesn't mess around and the fines are very high.

 

First off ... thank you ALL for your wisdom on this. I've done handshake deals all my life and 99% of the time tend to come out straight. Just didn't spend enough time with this guy to read him, I guess. I hire several contractors to do the construction at work and that is all covered by detailed contracts, insurance and such .... the thought never even crossed my mind to check for insurance on this guy. Figger'd it was just a pole barn ... naive I guess.

I plan on dragging him to the house this evening with his receipts to work out a refund amount. The wife or one of the kids will be getting his licence plate and if it's not covered up by junk ... the VIN from his truck.

I'm going to call the lumber supplier today to see if the load delivered to my address was paid for. So far, other than the dirt ... that's the only material that's shown up.



So ... what I'm getting from you all is that I don't need to pay for ANY of the labor ?? I'm good with that. Feel bad for the one dude who was on the business end of the shovel though.

Anyway ... thanks again for the wisdom and Wanna .... as always, you are AWESOME !!

Cheers,
PISTOL