Rpainter

Looking at buying a varmint style ar-15 for me to play with and possibly hunt coyotes on my hunting property.( counted 14 of them last year running thru the fields.) But I have selected two different weapons and I would like opinions of the rifles.
First one
http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm...VMS24FVAR9.asp
Second one
http://www.stagarms.com/product_info...roducts_id=211

Both have 24" comp barrels,both have two stage comp triggers but the stag has a1-8 twist barrel but it is on stainless steel. Not sure about the accuracy of that material.
I need help picking a weapon

patdaly

Of the 2, the Stag would be my choice.

I would not take either one in all honesty though.

Go to AR15.com and spend hours............ I am not sure which one I would personally purchase, the game is changing day by day.

I would look more along the lines of Rock River Arms if you want a dependable, reasonably priced 5.56. For 'Yotes, and depending on how far you want to get into it, a 6.5 Grendel upper might fit your hunting better.

Ever consider building your own from parts?

Rpainter

I did but I can get either of those two weapons for just over a grand out the door.Kinda hard to build one with those options for that price.

carl48

patdaly has good info. first decide witch weight bullet you are going to shoot. i like the hornandy 50 grain v max. for it the bushmaster has a little better twist. if you go 69 grains or 75 the stag is best. as pat said it is very easy to build your own get a shotgun news and look at model one add stay with the stainless longer heavy barrels or fluted barrels a 1 1/5 lb jard trigger is best just get the regular lower parts kit and order the jard. in calibers other than 5.56 i like the 204 ruger and the 6.5 grendel.

staarma

As far as 2nd tier rifles go the Stag is very hard to beat. The stainless barrel is going to be fairly standard on the "varmit" style rifles mainly for accuracy reasons. A chrome lined barrel won't have as good of accuracy as a stainless. It's like splitting hairs though really. Also, with a stainless your cleaning habits will probably have to change versus a chrome lined. A chrome lined barrel versus a non chrome lined barrel is usually debated in the number of rounds each will be able to shoot and still be reliable and accurate. It has long been thought that a chrome lined will "outlast" a non chrome lined barrel. While that may be true, it has a lot to do with your cleaning habits. A non chrome lined barrel with proper cleaning will hold up to 10's of thousands of rounds with no worry. Now, if you needed a rifle to drag around in the sand, dirt and mud without cleaning it often then you would need a chrome lined barrel like our troops are issued. They are meant to withstand harsh environments and multiple rounds fired without standard cleaning intervals and proper care. A chrome lined barrel, chamber and bore will let you get away with much more in the cleanliness department and will also let you shoot the cheap leaded, steel cased, corrosive ammo like Wolf and some of the other Com Block and Chinese ammo with no issues. A stainless or chrome moly barrel will not like that ammo at all and will fail over time. The twist is not much to worry about. The higher second number on the twist the lower grain ammo it is designed for. A 1 and 8 is middle of the road and will produce great results with 55 gr up to 69 grain. Again, it's like splitting hairs. You only need to shoot 3-4 inch groups for coyotes realistically but either rifle will be more than capable of that as long as you are.

Good luck with your decision and happy killing.

annabelle

Any quality version of the AR-15 should be good for yotes. Anything but a custom built rife is a plinker anyway. JMHO.

Redleg

What Pat said...
Neither show they use the Wylde chambering. Wylde allows safe use of NATO spec rounds with .223 Rem. accuracy. Stainless would be a little heavier, but best for accuracy. Stainless are generally 1-8 twist. Would allow increased accuracy with heavy grain bulletts (nominally).
Rock River has a long history with their match trigger.
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.c...ategory_id=227

ktpauley

You might also want to look at how the bolt is cycled. There are gas piston systems that keep the weapon cleaner and cooler if you are going to put lots of rounds through it before cleaning. Keith

SIXSLUG

Sounds like he's only gonna need it for 14 shots!

I'd go with the Stag because I am a southpaw and a sucker for anything lefthanded, and they have a lifetime warranty. You can really get carried away with the black rifle craze, its kind of like the aftermarket for the Ruger 10/22. Almost too many choices and confusion.

You picked two nice entry level rifles, choose one and shoot the barrel out of it!

Rpainter

I hear you there. The problem I am having is bushmaster says the 4150 mil-spec barrel is the best barrel available but 1 year warranty extensive barrel break in.
Stag is 100 cheaper lifetime warranty,1/2 moa guarantee but Stainless steel barrel. But they did say they lead lap the barrel twice for improved accuracy
Decisions decisions

patdaly

One thing I have learned is to not get too excited about the name on it. If it is to Milspec, it is going to shoot pretty doggone good.

Some guys say they have not had problems with Bushmaster, others swear at them, I really haven't heard too many swear at Stag.

As for building your own, you can definitely do it cheaper, you just have to look around, I know J&T distributing has some 20" 6.5 Grendel deals I am waiting on cash for.

A decent lower can be had for anywhere from 65 bucks up to about 125......... They generally assemble your upper for you in the kits.

Here is what you could get for 575.........

http://jtdistributing.net/store/more_k_bbk.html

They have their 6.5 Grendel kit at 544 bucks right now in Shotgun News.....

P.S. don't get so obsessed with barrel length, if you do your job, a 16" will reach out quite far, and a 20" is about the optimum BBL for 5.56 in my opinion. A quality 16" bbl and a trigger with decent action will shoot better than most of us are capable of.

budsowner

If you were a little closer i would let you shoot some and then build one and you can build a nice gun for Quite a bit less than a grand.

Rpainter

How much lower??? I can get the Stag out the door for 925.00 lifetime warranty and guaranteed 1/2" moa.

Beretta40

Custom building is a must for anyone mechanically inclined. Custom building can be quite a bit cheaper in most cases and can provide the rifle you want the first time around. Check out ar15.com, they have a lot of information on building an AR from the ground up or even brownells has a video section on the subject I believe. I have assembled several rifles and a few bull barrels. only problem I found was in using a 16" SS DPMS barrel, the barrel was a little picky (.223 rem, not 5.56) on the brass you run through it, it liked hornadys though. Patterned excellent at 200 yds test firing. Bill came up under $1000, with a free-floated YHM quad-rail and some other goodies. If you dont go the home build route, I havent ran across too many black rifles from the major manufactures that have had any major function/accuracy issues. I like Stag though, have build some rifles with stag lowers and never had any problems. Dpms and Roggio lowers have caused some real headaches in my experience

Justwannabeme

Stag for hunting if you want the 'turn key' closed deal.
Bushmaster is nice for knock around, vehicle, farm stuff. I love mine but it is a .22 calibre just for what I need. (ahem, old Army girl here)

building one defintely better for ten categories including price but it does take some time and a little knowledge for a decision you will not second guess.

there are four members on this site that have barrels of knowledge, not hot air. your time is the first investment; best of luck and toys with your decision!! it should be fun and exciting, like hunting.