My father has an '03 HO 3500 that died a couple of days ago. I did a little research on this board and others, and would like to pose a specific question here in hopes of some feedback:

I've been told there is a known issue with the '03s #6 injector "sticking" open and dumping fuel (which then contaminates the oil). Is this true?

Basically, the truck has been modded slightly (Volumizer, which I notice doesn't have much respect around here, and a cold air intake - can't remember what brand - but good quality from my previous experience). Also has a EGT sensor and a 4" exhaust. When the truck blew, the Volumizer was "turned off" and the truck was carrying about 20,000lbs of cargo. The truck has been as high as 26,000lbs for 1200 miles without issue (CDL). Before this issue, the truck impressed me so much, I considered trading my Ford.

We can't get a clear answer from the Dodge dealership of what exactly the issue is. When it blew, my father said the truck lost power and the truck started to smoke tremedously (blue smoke, ie oil). He said he noticed the water temp in excess of 210F - which it never ran above 200F before. After pulling the truck over, there was oil all over the undercarriage of the truck.

Obviously, they're blaming the K&N and voiding the warranty. They started out saying "the turbo blew up." After that, they started down the path of "it didn't have enough oil in it." After documenting the week-ago oil change to them, and pointing out that the missing oil was probably coating the underneath of the truck, they are finally saying that the truck over-fueled. I've yet to determine how this equates with the oil being all over the truck, etc.

I checked the recalls, et al, and no issues recognized by Dodge that the injectors stick from the factory - however was wondering if anyone else had experienced this?

Needless to say, to my father, Dodge not warrantying this is like finding out your wife is cheating on you. Yeah, the truck was modded, but the only component that could possibly have any NEGATIVE impact on the truck was turned off. EGTs never over 1000. Filter and exhaust made huge improvements in the trucks cooling and spooling.

If Dodge sticks to it's guns and doesn't warranty, we'll wind up fixing the truck ourselves - or finding a crate HO (if this is even possible). Any suggestions from you guys who have been down this path already?

Thanks for your time.

 

I'd say that you should look for the source of the oil covering the engine yourself. It can be the crankcase vent tube (if you score a piston you'll have a lot of blowby and blue smoke from the exhaust).
Maybe you could ask them to drop the pan and look for a fallen down piston oil cooling nozzle. This would lead to high temps and piston scoring.

The overfueling argument from the dealer is valid- you could have overheated the pistons by dumping in more fuel than in the specs. (You say that the volumizer was turned off... but I don't think they'll believe you)
Did your father notice a rise in EGT when this happened? The sensor pre or post turbo?

Just flinging my 2c around here

AlpineRAM

 

There have been a few guys reporting some engine knocking etc that has been attributed to a leaky injector (usually #6 I believe too).

If it was indeed leaking fuel into the crankcase, it could eventually raise the oil level to the point where it is whipped into a frenzy and vented out somewhere - likely spot is a breather tube.

Seems like some folks around here have had a thermostat stick that contributed to overheating the engine and eating #6 piston/cylinder while pulling hard and heavy.

But the biggest problem was taking a bite out of the forbidden fruit: the box.
Talking about having an elicit affair huh? Good analogy. You wanna flirt on the wild side? You risk getting burned. Also gives the dealer a prime opportunity to wash their hands of spending warranty dollars from their account - and giving that privilege to the customer.

New engine? Looky here:
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...threadid=44206


Good luck, sundown; and welcome aboard.

ps. Here are some "knock" threads:
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...knock+injector

https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...knock+injector

 

So has the dealership proven the malfunction was due to the Volumizer? If they can't prove the computer enhancement was at fault then I would pursue it further. It all depends on how much you want to fight DC.

I hope your dad gets this settled fairly. We are liable if we upgrade our engines so keep that in mind. Hope all goes well.

-CM

 

One other little interesting fact: Even though the truck has lots of oil on the underside and smoked badly, my father said the oil pressure stayed up. The dealership said they only got 5q of oil out of it. Making the assumption based on this amount of oil, does anyone know how much oil is circulating through the engine at any one time? Would 5 quarts of oil prevent it from running dry (I understand the oil would quickly overheat, but at least it wouldn't have been dry).

Yeah - to the taking responsibility of modifiying the truck. I'm a Mustang/Lightning guy, and I've been there and done that before. I also agree - our downfall is that we cannot prove the Volumizer was turned off. They also know that they can't prove that it wasn't turned on - hence their reliance on our cold air kit to void the warranty.

As far as the EGT, No there was no rise in EGT during the failure. The EGT is also post turbo. I'm the reason he put the gauges on the truck - to catch engine failures early. Who knew the engine itself would (apparently) grenade.

Thanks for the good info. Last we heard, the dealership was going to put in some color fuel to try and determine the cause of the excess. I'm trying to convince my father to just go get the thing. If they've said they're not warranting it, they may do more damage trying things on it than is already done.

My main problem was, the one time I had a chance to look at the truck was when I was picking him up from the dealership (when they had previously AGREED to warranty it) and there was a new Viper parked right beside it. I, unfortunately, didn't look much at the truck.

I'm sure they hear it all the time in cases like this, but my Father really _was_ a true dedicated Dodge man.

 

Sundown: I wouldn't base my opinion about a maker of a vehicle on the response you get at one dealer. Actually if you try to approach the responsible person at this dealership in a friendly way and tell them to diagnose what was damaged and what were the contributing factors to that damage I think they'll try to work with you. You can always cause a stink with Magnussen-Moss later, but a friendly approach in the beginning shouldn't do any harm

AlpineRAM

 

Alpine -
Unfortunately it's been tried. In fact, I'm as patient and understanding as anyone I know. Fortunately/unfortunately, I'm a straight shooter, and I'm not going to lie about the truck. In hindsight, I could have had it towed to our shop, I could have removed the "offending" equipment and replaced it with the "original" equipment, and likely been fine. But...

As it stands right now, my father has gone sofar as to purchase the replacement turbo (~$800 + $400 labor) and let them diagnose the remainder of the trucks issues. If it turns out there are other major issues, we've decided we'll acquire a new engine (not through Dodge or the dealership, if at all possible) and go that route.

All I could hope for would be for Dodge to return the favor - but I've also been accused of wishing for too much...

The downside with the Moss legislature is that it gives the automaker a clear way out: The warranty cannot be void unless specifically stated so in the vehicle's instruction manual. So really all Dodge has to do is to put it in writing that aftermarket parts void the warranty and *bam* bye bye MM.

I'm not basing my response at one particular dealer - let's face it - they were originally going to warranty the repair, and it was the "regional account rep" that made her rounds and voided it. Now she's decided she won't return a phone call, so if Dodge has decided to make people of this caliber "regional account rep"s, we're not interested.

 

Well that's a very sad story to me. If you intend to foot the bill yourself you could try to locate a cummins representative in your region. They'd shurely have enough experience on these engines to be of profound help.
Over here we don't have DC dealers who will touch my truck- not officially imported.

bulabula put a link into his post as to where you can get a dodge-spec'ed engine

Good Luck

AlpineRAM

 

I really do appreciate all the help everyone has given. Very subjective and informative. If you guys ever buy a F*rd product (right, huh?), let me know and maybe I can return the favor!

 

a proper tear down would be in order to give a breakdown of the failed parts. the only thing i can say is that # 6 cylinder is the one to get it on exceeded egts. your father may of had the device shut off when the failure became noticible however most likely the damage could of started earlier. if i was to need to go to a unfamilliar dealer and was concerened about my warrany i would of put the oem air box on and pulled my programmer out. how many miles on his rig? if he was pulling 26,000 pounds or 13 tons it sounds to me like he was giving that truck a workout.

 

60k. Never ran hard - but did run at the speed limit. At least half the miles on it were from either a 5th wheel RV (only ~14k) or a gooseneck trailer loaded.

It just hit me - the one thing I didn't mention was that it was a 6 speed - which basically means that the turbo was in/out of boost constantly between boost, unlike an auto where the load is constant. Guess if it was the turbo that let go, I should consider this as a possibility also.

I'll keep you posted on what the dealer says. If he keeps the truck, I expect he'll do it up right, and won't leave it at stock - as it appears some weakness (yet to be determined) exists for the job that he wants to use it for.

Where are all the other people who put a load on these machines? Surely we aren't the only one to put some weight and miles on this combo... (and don't call me Surely).

 

<H1>UPDATE</H1>

Thanks for the help on this guys. They rebuilt the turbo, and we were back on the road for another 20k miles.

HOWEVER -
Now it's sidelined with a broken piston and a cracked block. Anyone know of any outstanding issues with the 2003 HOs? Looks like right now we've got a minimum of $10k in correcting it this time 'round - and any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

I would suggest that it may be a good idea to contact DC directly and take this matter above the dealer to the district rep or higher. Good luck.

 

which piston is it that is cracked and where is the block cracked.
As for the aftermarket parts affecting the warrenty they must prove that they caused the problem.
now if your box caused the problem at or before, the computer on the truck can be used as a black box and will have some sort of memory of what the engine parameters where at the time of and shortly before and after the incident. they need to properly diagnose this problem and if they have no clue as to what they are doing then they need to bring someone in that does. this new engine control units can almost tell you everything about these engines.
You put a new turbo on this truck and drove it away, now what other problems were their with the engine after the first incident. sounds to me that the dealer has no clue as to what they are doing and Dodge themselves are trying to steer as far away from this as they can. I would have a independent diesel mechanic look at your engine while they tear it down to see what happend or at the very least be their yourself. Yes maybe your turbo blew and you had a new one installed but with only five litres of oil in the engine with it running that is less then have of its capacity, some other damage had to of occured. good luck and keep us posted.

 

did they cover the turbo repair? Could the failed piston/cracked block be directly related to the hot motor/low oil from previous breakdown?