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Sealed intake using LOX

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Old Oct 3, 2004 | 10:46 PM
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mhuppertz's Avatar
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From: Tijeras, New Mexico, 7,000ft up
Sealed intake using LOX

Why couldn't you seal the intake and use a LOX bottle to provide the necessary oxidizer eliminating the NOx problem. I'm chicken to try it so far, but I am thinking about it!

Mark
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Old Oct 3, 2004 | 10:54 PM
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Somewhere on the internet, there is a video of some college types,
using LOX (liquid oxygen, not the bagel spread) to speed up a charcoal barbeque.

It is hilarious.

I'm pretty sure the engine would melt faster than you could turn off the bottle.

Found one of may links
http://members.iinet.net.au/~lhore/bbq.html

True, you wouldn't be putting the liquid into the engine, but even pure oxygen vapor would be too much of an accelerant.
I guess that's why they use Nos instead.


phox
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Old Oct 4, 2004 | 01:21 AM
  #3  
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Bad idea. Don't do it. Pure O2 and any form of auto oil DO NOT MIX!!! Spontaneous Combustion, Anyone???? Phox is right -- you would probably burn the engine to the ground. Yes, burn! We have a U-80 Cryogenic Oxygen plant at work, producing 80 tons of 95% pure oxygen everyday. The safety training always emphasizes the dangers of oil/petroleum products mixed with pure oxygen. Asphalt burns readily. Impacts as light as a footstep can create enough heat to ignite oxygen saturated objects, including pavement. Saturated clothing can ignite from the natural static charge buildup in the fabric!! Clothing with higher than 21% oxygen saturation can take SEVERAL minutes to air down to atmospheric concentration, even in a moderate breeze. Unless you either really know what you are doing, or are insane enough to really push the envelope, leave this idea alone!
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Old Oct 4, 2004 | 02:29 AM
  #4  
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Heres a few quotes from another site that had this discussion.

Pure oxygen produces too much heat when burned with gasoline(read melted pistons and valves). They use nitrous oxide because with the two parts oxygen there is one part nitrogen, which is an inert gas, that helps keep the temp. at a less destructive level.
OPkay, one oxygen, while in itself is not flammable, it supposts combustion, in an oxygen rich enviroment, even the most fire retardent material will burn, and burn hot, the fire can also grow up to 5 times faster in an oxygen rich enviroment.


two pure O2 is not the best thing to pressurize, in order for it to work properly, you would need to store it in liquid form, and that meens almost -200 deg Farenheit. In order to do that you will need a Cryrotainer, I.E. a perfectly selad metal container filled with LOX (liquid oxy) and that container must be sealed in a vaccum metal container, becasue of te temp diff and to keep the LOX container from blowing up due to press increase in an area with room temperature, or stored in a vehicle in 100 degree temp i.e. summer time.

LOX containers are always building pressure, you need to be able to dump this pressure, so would need a vent, it would have to be set outside the vehicle. inside and you would have an oxy rich enviro.

When dealing with LOX you need to be in full leather or at lest 3 layers of clothes, -200 degrees will burn your skin off. And the enviroment it is in would have to be completely grease and oil free, along with the tools you use. Special connections and metals are needed to prevent breaking under the stress of intense cold.
I wasn't talking about running pure O2. I'm talking about injecting a small amount of pure O2 into the intake starting at maybe 4 or 5 psi so that it simply supplements the O2 level in the incoming air. Then slowly increasing the psi to check the effects. All I wanna do is get more (Not pure) O2 into the charge. Like a cold air intake but more controllable.
There are a couple of things to think about- number one, beyond psi, volume. The largest tank I'd want to permanently mount in my truck would be a 60cf one, and you loose a bit of cargo space at that. At 4-5psi, you would be running about 6cf/h, which means that a tank would only last about 10 hours of driving time. Number two, safety. These things are about 3,000+psi when fully charged, and heavy. What would happen in an accident? There is a very real possibility that the neck could be snapped off of it, then you wind up with a missile flying around. There really isn't a way to protect the neck while hoses are hooked up. Lastly, there is the computer issue. While the computer may be able to compensate for extra air, it may not be able to compensate for extra oxygen in that air. Given the computer is seeing the same volume of air as before, it wouldn't know what to do with the O2s readings. I don't want to discourage you, it sounds feasible with a car set up specifically for that purpose, but to go and retrofit something like that into an existing car, I don't think any gains you would see, be it in hp, mileage, etc, would be worth it.
Note : The computer issue here only applies to vehicles with O2 sensors.

A couple of things:

1. O2 Reacts very violently when in the presence of a petroleum product. Hence using pure O2 in any engine with either oil or gasoline / deisel would be very bad.

2. O2 can and is stored in small tanks that can be secured in an ordinary fire extinguisher bracket. I use them all time in my profession (Paramedic). Now obviously I am used to using Medical Grade O2, which would reqire a prescription to obtain legally.

3. O2 is measured in a liters per minute flow volume. I have run big "M" sized cylinders empty (full when started) without the cylinder icing.

4. LOX (Liquid O2) is a whole different animal, and requires special handling as mentioned above. This would be a suicidal option.

5. If you did decide to run the O2 into either the cold air intake or directly into the plenium, you run the risk of blowing your pistons through the block, or possibly blowing up the entire truck and yourself (very bad for you ..... but would make for an interesting call for me)
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Old Oct 4, 2004 | 05:15 AM
  #5  
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Something else to be considered- Air contains about 21% O2. You'll need roughly 14kgs of air to burn 1kg of fuel, so this means roughly 2.8 kgs of O2. So for adding up the necessary amount of O2 you'd need a rather big tank and lots of weight for the security stuff that needs to be there when working with LOX. - with much less weight, security concerns and $$$ you'd get a twin turbo system and have the air you need. (And have the same concerns as with LOX, NOx or more boost- you burn more fuel and have more heat and pressure so you'll have to do something about your head gasket, pistons etc depending on how far you go)

AlpineRAM
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