Save Our Trucks!
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From: Denver Co.
If my truck was 4X4 I'm sure I would be driving in on snow days too
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They should take a course/lessons on snow driving. The same problem is out here in northern Arizona. A month ago it was snowing pretty hard and I slowed down from 50MPH (posted limit) to around 35-40MPH. Some people in just standard FWD cars were passing me at about 65MPH+! 
Then the next day they reported dozens of accidents in the area. Wonder why?
The POSTED speed limit is for IDEAL conditions. In other words, it is perfectly clear, dry roads, low traffic. Anything LESS than ideal, the posted speed limit does not apply and COMMON SENSE needs to be used.
To combat this problem of stupidity the state has started using MAG here in Arizona ALSO! They started about 1 year ago. They spray the roads. So, LONG GONE are the "rust free" Arizona cars.
Maybe if the cars are PHOENIX area ONLY cars, then yes, rust free can apply. Anything north of that and the ADOT uses MAG. 
Does anyone remember when almost 90%+ of all cars were RWD?!? Roads were NOT plowed regularly, salt was used in ONLY major cities, sand and gravel were only around. People still drove around. Today, we have FWD and 4x4 vehicles, ABS, better tires, traction control, etc and people still can't drive in snow. Honestly, it all comes down to VEHICLE SPEED and COMMON SENSE.
Then the next day they reported dozens of accidents in the area. Wonder why?
The POSTED speed limit is for IDEAL conditions. In other words, it is perfectly clear, dry roads, low traffic. Anything LESS than ideal, the posted speed limit does not apply and COMMON SENSE needs to be used.
To combat this problem of stupidity
the state has started using MAG here in Arizona ALSO! They started about 1 year ago. They spray the roads. So, LONG GONE are the "rust free" Arizona cars. Maybe if the cars are PHOENIX area ONLY cars, then yes, rust free can apply. Anything north of that and the ADOT uses MAG. Does anyone remember when almost 90%+ of all cars were RWD?!? Roads were NOT plowed regularly, salt was used in ONLY major cities, sand and gravel were only around. People still drove around. Today, we have FWD and 4x4 vehicles, ABS, better tires, traction control, etc and people still can't drive in snow. Honestly, it all comes down to VEHICLE SPEED and COMMON SENSE.
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While this letter is geared towards Colorado. If you live in other states where MAG is used, please feel free to modify and send this letter to your DOT. 
To Whom It May Concern:
As a resident of Colorado, I have researched the issues regarding the use of Magnesium Chloride (Mag) on the streets to assist in snow & ice removal. While the INITIAL research showed Magnesium Chloride to be less corrosive and aid in the removal of snow & ice, it has proved otherwise. Numerous studies and reports show that Magnesium Chloride is MORE corrosive than previously thought.
In 2001, the USDA published an article entitled "Magnesium Chloride as a De-Icing Agent" that stated magnesium chloride led to "corrosion of steel and aluminum poles and pole hardware." Also, a February 2003 Board of Montana Flathead County Commissioners minutes document called "Magnesium Chloride on Roads" on Corrosion-Doctors.org attests to magnesium chloride's corrosiveness on aluminum and steel. In a corrosion comparison done by Colorado D.O.T. and the University of Colorado, it was found that "road salt is more corrosive to the metals than mag chloride on a one time exposure." However, magnesium chloride corrodes over longer periods of time and Greg Fulton, president of the Colorado Motor Carriers Association, said it corroded aluminum on his vehicles as well as led to wiring & brake failure!
The January 3, 2007 article in the Summit Daily News titled 'Does magnesium chloride corrode car components?' by J.K. PERRY -Eagle County correspondent, shows that indeed magnesium chloride does corrode car components. Not only does it corrode car components at alarming rates but the substance begins to corrode components essential to safe operation of vehicles, such as brakes, and electrical systems. This has been proven and currently motions are underway to bring this evidence to the state of Colorado.
There are three cooperatives in Colorado that have seen an increase in outages and pole top fires that have been attributed to insulators becoming coated with magnesium chloride. The insulators become coated as vehicle traffic churns up the magnesium chloride into a fine mist that rises and settles on the pole hardware and insulators. As the solution builds up on the insulators the probability of tracking and arcing increases.
In the March 23, 2001, issue of Electric Co-op Today, Jerry Lipson's article "New Winter Road Salt 'Burns' Colorado Co-op Lines" addresses this issue. In an effort to determine whether other cooperatives are experiencing similar problems, RUS asks borrowers to let RUS know whether they have any evidence of increased outages or pole fires in proximity to highways in areas where magnesium chloride is used.
A concern still remains on its reaction with aluminum and galvanized steel poles, metal hardware and conductors. There has been some feedback from truckers stating that aluminum components and electrical systems in their vehicles are showing an increased corrosion rate. These are facts that cannot be ignored any longer.
I am asking that you cease using magnesium chloride or any of its similar compounds immediately. Not only has magnesium chloride been found to be very corrosive but it also attacks plastics and rubbers. This then relates to vehicle electrical wiring failures and brake failures as both systems utilize plastic and rubber components. The result of magnesium chloride on vehicles will result in serious accidents involving cars as components corrode and fail due to its use.
In order to avoid million dollar lawsuits being filed against the state of Colorado for its use of magnesium chloride and its salt based compounds. I am asking that the state of Colorado to consider reverting back to the environmentally & vehicle friendly method of plowing and sprinkling cinder or sand & enforcing the use of snow tires.
While this venture to introduce magnesium chloride was first initially thought to be a better alternative than calcium or sodium chloride, the data shows otherwise. Whether the state of Colorado has vested interests in EnviroTech Services, a Greeley-based company, is unknown at this time. Ceasing to use magnesium chloride and its similar compounds will prevent lawsuits from being filed by people whose vehicles suffered detrimental damage caused by its use.
Thank you
To Whom It May Concern:
As a resident of Colorado, I have researched the issues regarding the use of Magnesium Chloride (Mag) on the streets to assist in snow & ice removal. While the INITIAL research showed Magnesium Chloride to be less corrosive and aid in the removal of snow & ice, it has proved otherwise. Numerous studies and reports show that Magnesium Chloride is MORE corrosive than previously thought.
In 2001, the USDA published an article entitled "Magnesium Chloride as a De-Icing Agent" that stated magnesium chloride led to "corrosion of steel and aluminum poles and pole hardware." Also, a February 2003 Board of Montana Flathead County Commissioners minutes document called "Magnesium Chloride on Roads" on Corrosion-Doctors.org attests to magnesium chloride's corrosiveness on aluminum and steel. In a corrosion comparison done by Colorado D.O.T. and the University of Colorado, it was found that "road salt is more corrosive to the metals than mag chloride on a one time exposure." However, magnesium chloride corrodes over longer periods of time and Greg Fulton, president of the Colorado Motor Carriers Association, said it corroded aluminum on his vehicles as well as led to wiring & brake failure!
The January 3, 2007 article in the Summit Daily News titled 'Does magnesium chloride corrode car components?' by J.K. PERRY -Eagle County correspondent, shows that indeed magnesium chloride does corrode car components. Not only does it corrode car components at alarming rates but the substance begins to corrode components essential to safe operation of vehicles, such as brakes, and electrical systems. This has been proven and currently motions are underway to bring this evidence to the state of Colorado.
There are three cooperatives in Colorado that have seen an increase in outages and pole top fires that have been attributed to insulators becoming coated with magnesium chloride. The insulators become coated as vehicle traffic churns up the magnesium chloride into a fine mist that rises and settles on the pole hardware and insulators. As the solution builds up on the insulators the probability of tracking and arcing increases.
In the March 23, 2001, issue of Electric Co-op Today, Jerry Lipson's article "New Winter Road Salt 'Burns' Colorado Co-op Lines" addresses this issue. In an effort to determine whether other cooperatives are experiencing similar problems, RUS asks borrowers to let RUS know whether they have any evidence of increased outages or pole fires in proximity to highways in areas where magnesium chloride is used.
A concern still remains on its reaction with aluminum and galvanized steel poles, metal hardware and conductors. There has been some feedback from truckers stating that aluminum components and electrical systems in their vehicles are showing an increased corrosion rate. These are facts that cannot be ignored any longer.
I am asking that you cease using magnesium chloride or any of its similar compounds immediately. Not only has magnesium chloride been found to be very corrosive but it also attacks plastics and rubbers. This then relates to vehicle electrical wiring failures and brake failures as both systems utilize plastic and rubber components. The result of magnesium chloride on vehicles will result in serious accidents involving cars as components corrode and fail due to its use.
In order to avoid million dollar lawsuits being filed against the state of Colorado for its use of magnesium chloride and its salt based compounds. I am asking that the state of Colorado to consider reverting back to the environmentally & vehicle friendly method of plowing and sprinkling cinder or sand & enforcing the use of snow tires.
While this venture to introduce magnesium chloride was first initially thought to be a better alternative than calcium or sodium chloride, the data shows otherwise. Whether the state of Colorado has vested interests in EnviroTech Services, a Greeley-based company, is unknown at this time. Ceasing to use magnesium chloride and its similar compounds will prevent lawsuits from being filed by people whose vehicles suffered detrimental damage caused by its use.
Thank you
Don't get me started........Oops, way too late!
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Pet, I couldn't agree with you more! One run up to ski at Brek. left my new front bumper with what looks like it ran thru a swarm of black knats the next day. The difference is when I wash, these "knats" leave a substantial pit in the chrome after just one day. It also appears that the stuff has left pits in my plastic headlight covers. It is alarming to hear that it is also attacking brake components, etc. I just read the propaganda piece the DOT puts out, claiming this crud to be good for the environment. Since it has been put into use, the number of distressed trees along the 285 corridor has skyrocketed. Stressing the trees this way makes them far more to susceptable to contracting and spreading the pine beetle disease, or the douglas fir disease. Once that is started, it can wipe out our forests, provide an enormous supply of kindling, which in turn threatens our homes, etc, not to mention the untold millions of dollars damage to our vehicles. All for the possible trade-off of less sediment in our streams? Another example of the eco-terrorists protecting the darting snails?
Don't get me started........Oops, way too late!
Anyhow, thank you for the excellent post, and now I have a question: Does anyone know of anything we can coat our chrome and alum/mag hardware with that can be reapplied perioudically and removed in the spring?
Thanks again.
Don't get me started........Oops, way too late!
Anyhow, thank you for the excellent post, and now I have a question: Does anyone know of anything we can coat our chrome and alum/mag hardware with that can be reapplied perioudically and removed in the spring?
Thanks again.
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MAG compared to ROAD SALT, MAG is less corrosive on metal than ROAD SALT. They use ROAD SALT in the Midwest/Rustbelt. Sheet metal does NOT last long there.
Colorado only used sand, gravel and cinder in times past, but too many accidents, so they switched to the salt-based components. People just need to SLOW DOWN, that would prevent 90% of the accidents.
Running snow tires and slowing down would help a lot with accidents. Also, COMMON SENSE. If you are traveling into the mountains, then snow tires, 4 wheel drive, or snow chains should be mandatory equipment. I believe Aspen has outlawed MAG and ROAD SALT. They only use sand & gravel.
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From: Near Mt. Pleasant, Tennessee
Common Sense?? What's that? We get ice and snow here, well not that much snow. But when it does snow if they have 4x4 they still fly on the roads....4x4 makes you indestructable....... but our population is increasingly far far outwest folks, I mean really far out west and amazingly a lot of yanks who you would think would know how to drive in the snow. I guess I'm just old school yank, learned you slow down when the roads are snow covered, warm your car up early and clean the windows off....all of the windows, not just a little peep hole in the front(morons). If they wreck with another idiot who cares, two less morons on the road, it's when they wreck with the common sense driver that's bad.
Salt and sand up in Western NY, gosh to watch cars die up there. Salt gets in every nook and cranny, paint bubbling, nuts and bolts frozen solid when you try to work on the vehicle......ohhhhhhh, the misery!!! I'm so glad to be in southern TN!!!
but our population is increasingly far far outwest folks, I mean really far out west and amazingly a lot of yanks who you would think would know how to drive in the snow. I guess I'm just old school yank, learned you slow down when the roads are snow covered, warm your car up early and clean the windows off....all of the windows, not just a little peep hole in the front(morons). If they wreck with another idiot who cares, two less morons on the road, it's when they wreck with the common sense driver that's bad. Salt and sand up in Western NY, gosh to watch cars die up there. Salt gets in every nook and cranny, paint bubbling, nuts and bolts frozen solid when you try to work on the vehicle......ohhhhhhh, the misery!!! I'm so glad to be in southern TN!!!
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From: Montana
Think you have problems, check out what deicer does in Montana
http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2...top/news01.txt
http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2...top/news01.txt
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From: Ankeny, Iowa
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The best advice is to WASH your truck after driving through the MAG.
Go to a high-pressure car wash and spend the $4.00 and wash-off that UNDERCARRIAGE. That is SO IMPORTANT. Washing it off the body panels is good but you need to get it off the undercarriage. The longer it sits there, the worse it gets.
Read it and weep....
"Although magnesium chloride producers claim they have integrated a corrosion inhibitor to negate damage to vehicles, the Colorado DOT study showed that the inhibitor wasn't effective."
"Maintenance professionals say that once magnesium chloride wicks into a joint between two metals, it's there to stay unless the pieces are disassembled, cleaned, and painted."
Go to a high-pressure car wash and spend the $4.00 and wash-off that UNDERCARRIAGE. That is SO IMPORTANT. Washing it off the body panels is good but you need to get it off the undercarriage. The longer it sits there, the worse it gets.
Read it and weep....
"Although magnesium chloride producers claim they have integrated a corrosion inhibitor to negate damage to vehicles, the Colorado DOT study showed that the inhibitor wasn't effective."
"Maintenance professionals say that once magnesium chloride wicks into a joint between two metals, it's there to stay unless the pieces are disassembled, cleaned, and painted."
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As one guy simply stated:
“Why can't we get back to like we were 20 years ago?” one attendee asked. “Slow down and just plow the roads.”
Some mountain towns in Colorado — including Aspen, Fraser, and Winter Park — have banned the use of magnesium chloride.
http://www.chemicals-globalspecialty.com/market03.html
“Why can't we get back to like we were 20 years ago?” one attendee asked. “Slow down and just plow the roads.”
Some mountain towns in Colorado — including Aspen, Fraser, and Winter Park — have banned the use of magnesium chloride.
http://www.chemicals-globalspecialty.com/market03.html
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PET,
Ya know someone has a product that will act as a barrier against this stuff...at least on the chrome. If not, a market is being missed. I have started going thru all the cans of stuff on my shelves in hopes of finding such a product. I just sprayed a portion of my bumper and grill with "Anti Splatter" which is intended for use on the tip and nozzle of my MIG welder. I tried it on the paint in a door jam and see no ill effects there. I would also think that a coat of good old fashiond grease would do it, but that would have to be a real mess!
Ya know someone has a product that will act as a barrier against this stuff...at least on the chrome. If not, a market is being missed. I have started going thru all the cans of stuff on my shelves in hopes of finding such a product. I just sprayed a portion of my bumper and grill with "Anti Splatter" which is intended for use on the tip and nozzle of my MIG welder. I tried it on the paint in a door jam and see no ill effects there. I would also think that a coat of good old fashiond grease would do it, but that would have to be a real mess!
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From: Western Colorado
This stuff will blister your skin if you get it on your hands so what does it do to the insides of fish and salt-seeking deer? is this where the trout got 'whirling disease'? Does ingestion by the deer cause 'chronic wasting disease'?
Somebody over in Denver is making alot of money on this deal, I reckon!
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a couple of points- 1. the environmental groups are firmly pro mag chloride because they believe using less sand reduces the 'brown cloud' in denver. 2. mag chloride is not in the same category as road salt because it causes a chemical reaction that permanently alters materials such as metals, concrete, and wiring insulation- the metal 'pitting' described by some in this thread is not rusting but the result of that reaction. 3. even if you wash your vehicle after being exposed to mag chloride, it will become contaminated once again by the very same roads where you picked it up the first time. even if the roads appear clear and dry, any moisture (rain, snow, fog, frost, etc.) reactivates mag on roads even if they have not been treated for some time- moisture will also cause even small amounts of mag to reactivate on your vehicle. do a search for the interesting things that idaho found out about mag after using the stuff for only one year and their inability to get a response from any of the 'scientists' that claimed that mag chloride was no more damaging than deionized water (they were employed by the company selling the stuff)... have fun...