Hello,

Currently considering a Loader-Backhoe for a camp I have worked with. Thier current unit is a Case 480E mid-eighties vintage with about 6000 hours on it. It's a 2wd ROPS unit with a recently replaced hydraulic pump, so it still is operational. They also have a Case 621 Loader, which they will be selling as they are getting away from the pay-loader, semi-truck operation they previously were involved in.

I asked a question a month ago regarding a 580 SL 4wd cab unit they were considering with about 2000 hours on it. They rejected this machine and are looking at others currently. I am not out to start a brand war here, so my questions are: For those with actual operational or service experance with these units, please inform me, which brands rate higher than others, which ones hold thier value well, which are the most user-friendly to operate, etc. User-friendly is important, as is durability, as many different people will be using the same vechile.

They are looking to be between $30-40k, so perhaps a 1999 or 2000 unit, about the size of a 580L or so, they would like a toolcarrier front-end as they have frequnet need to handle trees with this unit. I have also looked over Komatsu and Cat units, I noticed the Komatsu's use a Yanmar engine. I am looking to learn here, they will consider any major manufacturer, provided there is service avalible in Northern Wisconsin. It will not be used more than, say 1000 hours per year, if that helps. Thanks to all for your help!

 

Matters a lot as to which unit the operators are comfortable running, if the have run a case with case controls for years it may drive them nuts trying to re learn cat or JD controlls. A high chance for injury if any changes in control typ is made. For power of the lesser priced Jd's and Cat's the JD wins hands down, the cheap Cats are in my exp. way underpowered. Case has alway had a ful power now kinda feel to me. If you are going to be doing much digging with the hoe end look into an extenda hoe for much better reach. For around camp work and clearing pile of bryush a clam shell bucket can be very helpfull. Last recomended item is for the tires, if the unit is to sit for a while between uses getting the tires " foame filled " will eliminate any down time due to showing up to use the machine and finding a flat, added benefit to tilled tires is better stability when loading heavy buckets and driving without worrying about a soft tire leading to a squat and tip condition.

 

Bang for the buck, and from what I have seen best resale values go to Deere, then Case. Operator comfort from what I have seen is Deere, Komatsu, Case. Cat is not a real operator station friendly unit to run, and is under powered out of the box.

Having run the newest Komatsu WB140 and WB150 machines, I can say I was rather impressed with them. I am biased toward application specific machines though. An excavator should be an excavator, and a wheel loader should be a wheel loader. But, if you need a versatile machine that doesn't do either job exceptionally well, try those three. Leave the Cat in the litterbox where it belongs.

JMHO

 

I have run Deere 302A, 401C, 310A, 410 'hoes. 1 Cat 416 (hated the controls on that one). All of those were 2wd. 1 JCB 217S Series 2 (4wd ).

IMHO, the JCB 217S Series 2, wins hands-down. This unit is easy to operate, maintanance isn't too bad, easy on fuel, and has lots of power for its size. The machine I ran, had 4 wheel steering (also front-steer or crab, depending on switch position), 4x4, 4-in-1 bucket, extend-a-hoe, cab. Has a turbo'd 4cyl. Perkins engine. Starts great cold. We ran the snot out of it. It back filled many miles of drainage tile ditches. Doug sold it last year with over 4000hrs on it. Can't recall what the new one is. I think it is a JCB, also. Haven't seen it yet.

 

Thanks for the thoughts expressed so far. Keep 'em coming.

A few questions I have since thought of: Who produces the engine in the Cat unit? Is it a Perkins (since they own them?) I know the Yanmar engine has a good reputation in smaller Deere products, how does it do in the Komatsu Loader-backhoe? As for user friendliness, the Cat may not be as good as the others, but I tend to think it's more user friendly than thier current machine is!

I ran the 580 SL they looked at previously, the controls were very positive, although it seemed it would take a while to become "smooth" operating that unit. The 4bt engine is a very good thing in my opinion!

 

You are getting good feedback here but the one thing I would impress on you is dealer service and availability of parts.That should count for more than the brand of machine.
Having a "conventional" control pattern,either the John Deere or Cat style will increase the chances of finding an operator that is comfortable with the controls,if you bought a Case with the older 5 stick/foot swing that was very common in the past it is getting more difficult to find someone who can climb aboard and start getting work done right away.
My preference would be the John Deere hands down but again,if it breaks you need to know that you can get help/parts without too much hassle.
The Cat is okay too although I have not noticed them to be underpowered as some have observed here.
Case makes a nice machine as well and the JCB's I have run in the past were also good machines and the older ones could be considered "underpowered" as the Perkins they used were nice engines but really needed a little more Grunt.
The older Cases could be a little "tippy" if you had the wheels turned too sharply with a real heavy load up front,say a catch basin riser or sump suspended from a chain which was a chore to pick up anyway but I have also had them tip with a bucketful of material.
That is a price we pay for turning so sharply I guess.The extendahoe is very desireable as well but could be a liability with casual operators. Ron G

 

Case, Cat, or JD... Whichever has the closest service and parts. All good, some features better than others on the differing brands.

Cummins probably has the best TBO overall, but don't discount the CAT.

I learned on the Case and presently have a 580SK. Foot pedals and stick. We own a small Kubota (twin-stick) and it took a while to make the transition. Now it doesn't make any difference and I can move from one to the other without a second thought.

SK has just over 4000 hours and the only issue has been a hose once in a while. A pretty good record if you ask me,

 

The Cat I ran had 3 levers and the 2 foot pedals. Didn't run it enough to get any good at it. Hated the setup. Worst part was, the foot pedals had a bad tendency to stick. I almost hit someone that was standing to close the trench, because of it.

The controls on the JCB are setup similar to Deere.

Never had a problem getting parts that we needed.

The Cat uses a Perkins with a Cat badge. Guess some of the techs call them Perkapilliars.

 

the older cats used perkins newer ones are cat engines .
I have owned cat, jd ,case, and rented JCB the new JDs are top heavy and there 4 in ones are WEEK and a poor design. Cats have held up very well and by no means are under powered. new case hoes are well build and the operators seem to like the new cases. everytime a JCB ends up on a job site, every operator starts to whine.(NO ONE LIKES THEM). my .02 is CAT ,JD.or case all have good part and service. if you plan on keeping it for many years the CAT would be my 1st choise.

 

Update - turns out I was wrong. The camp didn't reject the Case 580SL, they allowed it to go out on rent to someone else for a few weeks. They agreed to purchase it tonight in exchange for the 621 loader and a Semi-trailer in trade. Really not a bad deal even if it had soem work done. It is a 2000 model with 2100 hours on it, is MFD with a cab and A/C. It has new paint, four new tires, a new alternator, a power thumb (but not extend-a-hoe) for the rear bucket and a detachable front bucket with forklift attachment. Only drawback I can see is that they will miss the surefootedness and stability of the true articulated loader, the 621.

Thanks for all your input, hopefully this new unit will work out well for them