Just for laughs!!"does ford own cummins?"
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 15
Likes: 5
From: Carvel, Alberta, Canada
Just for laughs!!"does ford own cummins?"
Well I'm stuck up in Barrow Alaska looking after a canadian plane doing a whale counting contract for shell. I've been here for 10 days and the plane has flown a grand total of 3 times. As you can imagine I am bored out of my skull. Just for FUN and giggles I went to my trusty GOOGLE page and typed in this stoooopid question which any sane and halfWITTED informed diesel lover such as I know the answer to. OF COURSE THEY DO!! , naa just playing with your minds.
This came to mind because my nefew(18 yrs old) is working as an auto apprentice at a locall chevy dealer at home. He gets a lot of ribbing being he is a Mopar fan and drives one of those hopped up Neons with the FART pipe and such. Well he comes home about 2 weeks ago and informs me that Cummins is owned by ford, at least thats what some fool at work told him. well I told him to go check it out on the internet and prove the guy wrong.
Well now that I have all the free time on my hands I checked out what the net had to say. I gotta tell ya that I have never laughed so hard in all my life.I found everything from , ford owns cummins outright to ford dosen't own it but just because they don't want to,ford makes the cummins engine for cummins, ford just lets dodge use it for now,and my all time favorite"for 22k you can order a cummins in a ford f350(from ford) now, my dads friend did it and just got his new truck"LMAO"(this post was dated 2005). In most posts there is someone of sound mind that finally posts the link to cummins website FAQs.
So all this leads to, if you are bored and need a good laugh just type"does ford own cummins" in google. You won't be disapointed.
I was going to post some links to the stuff I found, but finding it was half the fun.
One real intresting thing I did find on one posting was a synopsis one guy did on the global ownership of the diesel engine manufactures. I thought some of you may be intrested to read it. If you believe any of it.......Cummins owns a piece of whats under the hood of ferd & chev........
Aint life funny?
Any way I posted the link of where I found that piece at the bottom.
Let me know what you think.
Cheers
03-01-2007, 09:53 PM
heavyiron heavyiron is offline
Senior User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 182 heavyiron is starting off with a positive reputation.
It may take awhile to find, but one member awhile ago posted an excellent, very thouroughly researched article about Cummin's and it's evolution.
I hope I can find it because after reading it you will be amazed.
Ford dreams it could own part of Cummin's. The reality seem's to be that Cummin's could probably buy out whoever they so desired !!
Ok, here it is, many thanks to the original poster. Now everyone take note.
Originally Posted by BFR250SD
It's not who owns Cummins, but who does Cummins own?
(1) Isuzu owned Subaru, and sold out to Fuji Heavy Industries, which was then jointly acquired by British Leyland and Ford.
(2) BL & Ford then spun off Fuji/Subaru into an independent company. Big mistake. Ford bought BL, and owned Isuzu outright. Big mistake.
(3) Isuzu entered into a joint development partnership with Navistar International. Stock interests were traded. Eventually, one of the projects would be a 7.3L V-8 light-duty diesel. Guess who picked that one up for use in its pickup trucks?
(4) Navistar also had entered into a joint development partnership with Caterpillar. One of the projects was a direct injection system that would be picked up by -- Ford. And Isuzu mediums.
(5) Caterpillar owned a large chunk of Bosch. GM owned another big chunk. And so did a third major player -- Daimler Benz. Bosch was the primary developer of Caterpillar's direct injection system. But GM forced Caterpillar to turn over its share of Bosch, and then forced Bosch to abandon direct injection in favor of developing an "improved" generation rotary injection pumps. The initial designs for those pumps had been brought to GM by former Isuzu engineers working for Ford.
(6) What did Caterpillar receive in return for giving GM its stock in Bosch? GM's stock in Cummins. Ford then sold its small share of Cummins stock because of antitrust regulations in the U.S. Caterpillar, on the other hand, avoided antitrust problems by a joint incorporation agreement with Cummins under a Brazilian operation named Inquardo, Ltd.
(7) Eventually almost all Cummins manufacturing and design were moved over to that part of the "house". However, that move proved so efficient and profitable that Cummins began to eat into significant markets for Caterpillar, so Caterpillar merged its manufacturing and design base with Cummins in Brazil, leaving skeleton operations only in places like Peoria, Illinois. Cummins management largely pushed out Caterpillar management after several years.
(Cool With me so far? Caterpillar owns Cummins, but Cummins has effectively "eaten" Caterpillar. In Brazil. Here, they're separate, of course, but it's only the purposes of adhering to American commercial law. But wait. There's more.
(9) Ford had some disasterous capitalization-and-flow problems after the overseas buying spree of the early nineties, during which it acquired British Leyland, Isuzu, Fuji, part of Fiat, and parts of other companies. Ford was forced to sell Isuzu to maintain cash flow beyond the U.S. Who did they sell Isuzu to? Navistar International. Along with certain manufacturing and sourcing arrangements. Navistar hoped to go global again, as in the grand old days of International Harvester.
(10) But Navistar couldn't hold on to Isuzu either, what with a $2 billion dollar loss in 1995, and eventually sold its controlling interest in the company to Daimler Benz.
(11) Isuzu was having its own problems, since its global market share in light and medium diesels was rapidly shrinking. The cause of the problem was Cummins, which, after swallowing Caterpillar - in Brazil - had also acquired NGT, Tapei Technologies, Allison Canada, and Nansen-Renault, all in hostile takeovers, all manufacturers of diesel technologies outside of the U.S. So, Cummins had effectively cornered the controlling share of the global market outside of North America and Western Europe. (Why do you think the splashgate at their website is so heavily global?)
(12) After nine months of negotiation, Cummins and its subsidiary, Allison Canada, entered into a joint development arrangement with Isuzu, owned by Daimler, and with the surviving U.S. corporation, Allison, which was at that point partly owned by GM. Cummins, however, dominated the partnership, and eventually managed to assume Daimler's and GM's interests in Isuzu and and Allison.
(13) In the case of Isuzu, Cummins has an equal partnership with Daimler, which, of course, has also acquired Chrysler Corporation. That's why, when Ford offered Cummins a billion-dollar package to manfacture medium and light truck diesels for its vehicles in 2001, Cummins said no. Again, for antitrust reasons, a public holding company was set up to handle Isuzu as a separate corporate entity. The name of the company is Benz Transporation Technologies, of San Paulo, Brazil. BTT also is a major owner of the Benz division of Daimler Chrysler, which manufacturers most of the diesel engines in Europe. In the case of Allison, Cummins controls it through a series of holding companies ending with Inquardo, Ltd., the orginal Caterpillar-Cummins creation in Brazil. Cummins also controls a fair-size block of stock in GM, through the ownership of a cartel of South Korean and Thai banks and investment groups.
(14) Navistar has continued its free-fall in spite of its partnership with Ford in the light-duty diesel area. Three weeks ago, after the implications of labor troubles, a rise in basic resource costs, and the disasterous introduction of the 6.0L PSD had become clear, Navistar's financial arrangements with Citibank and Manufacturers B&T collapsed. Both banks arranged to float the company infrastructural loans if it would agree to a merger with -- are you ready for this? -- Inquardo, Ltd. As of last Thursday, Cummins owns 67% of Navistar through Inquardo.
Right now, Cummins makes all diesels in all pickup trucks sold in the United States. Cummins makes 73% of all diesels in all trucks sold in the world. The board of directors at Inquardo -- which isn't listed on any stock exchange -- includes 9 Cummins execs, 2 Caterpillar execs, and one Wells Fargo Bank exec. The CEO and CFO are also Cummins vice presidents. And there are Cummins execs on the boards of Daimler Chrysler, General Motors, Toyota, and Honda America. Ford, the holdout, has not been doing very well.
So it isn't a question of who owns Cummins. It's a question of who Cummins owns, and who's next. Could be Ford. Could be DC. Could be both. Ford Viper, anyone? Mercedes Mustang with a 6.0L Shelby Diesel and a Holset twin turbo?
And some have claimed that the new Navistar/Ford 6.0L is Cummins' revenge for the Bosch VP44"
Reply With Quote
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/58...n-cummins.html
This came to mind because my nefew(18 yrs old) is working as an auto apprentice at a locall chevy dealer at home. He gets a lot of ribbing being he is a Mopar fan and drives one of those hopped up Neons with the FART pipe and such. Well he comes home about 2 weeks ago and informs me that Cummins is owned by ford, at least thats what some fool at work told him. well I told him to go check it out on the internet and prove the guy wrong.
Well now that I have all the free time on my hands I checked out what the net had to say. I gotta tell ya that I have never laughed so hard in all my life.I found everything from , ford owns cummins outright to ford dosen't own it but just because they don't want to,ford makes the cummins engine for cummins, ford just lets dodge use it for now,and my all time favorite"for 22k you can order a cummins in a ford f350(from ford) now, my dads friend did it and just got his new truck"LMAO"(this post was dated 2005). In most posts there is someone of sound mind that finally posts the link to cummins website FAQs.
So all this leads to, if you are bored and need a good laugh just type"does ford own cummins" in google. You won't be disapointed.
I was going to post some links to the stuff I found, but finding it was half the fun.
One real intresting thing I did find on one posting was a synopsis one guy did on the global ownership of the diesel engine manufactures. I thought some of you may be intrested to read it. If you believe any of it.......Cummins owns a piece of whats under the hood of ferd & chev........
Aint life funny?
Any way I posted the link of where I found that piece at the bottom.
Let me know what you think.
Cheers
03-01-2007, 09:53 PM
heavyiron heavyiron is offline
Senior User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 182 heavyiron is starting off with a positive reputation.
It may take awhile to find, but one member awhile ago posted an excellent, very thouroughly researched article about Cummin's and it's evolution.
I hope I can find it because after reading it you will be amazed.
Ford dreams it could own part of Cummin's. The reality seem's to be that Cummin's could probably buy out whoever they so desired !!
Ok, here it is, many thanks to the original poster. Now everyone take note.
Originally Posted by BFR250SD
It's not who owns Cummins, but who does Cummins own?
(1) Isuzu owned Subaru, and sold out to Fuji Heavy Industries, which was then jointly acquired by British Leyland and Ford.
(2) BL & Ford then spun off Fuji/Subaru into an independent company. Big mistake. Ford bought BL, and owned Isuzu outright. Big mistake.
(3) Isuzu entered into a joint development partnership with Navistar International. Stock interests were traded. Eventually, one of the projects would be a 7.3L V-8 light-duty diesel. Guess who picked that one up for use in its pickup trucks?
(4) Navistar also had entered into a joint development partnership with Caterpillar. One of the projects was a direct injection system that would be picked up by -- Ford. And Isuzu mediums.
(5) Caterpillar owned a large chunk of Bosch. GM owned another big chunk. And so did a third major player -- Daimler Benz. Bosch was the primary developer of Caterpillar's direct injection system. But GM forced Caterpillar to turn over its share of Bosch, and then forced Bosch to abandon direct injection in favor of developing an "improved" generation rotary injection pumps. The initial designs for those pumps had been brought to GM by former Isuzu engineers working for Ford.
(6) What did Caterpillar receive in return for giving GM its stock in Bosch? GM's stock in Cummins. Ford then sold its small share of Cummins stock because of antitrust regulations in the U.S. Caterpillar, on the other hand, avoided antitrust problems by a joint incorporation agreement with Cummins under a Brazilian operation named Inquardo, Ltd.
(7) Eventually almost all Cummins manufacturing and design were moved over to that part of the "house". However, that move proved so efficient and profitable that Cummins began to eat into significant markets for Caterpillar, so Caterpillar merged its manufacturing and design base with Cummins in Brazil, leaving skeleton operations only in places like Peoria, Illinois. Cummins management largely pushed out Caterpillar management after several years.
(Cool With me so far? Caterpillar owns Cummins, but Cummins has effectively "eaten" Caterpillar. In Brazil. Here, they're separate, of course, but it's only the purposes of adhering to American commercial law. But wait. There's more.
(9) Ford had some disasterous capitalization-and-flow problems after the overseas buying spree of the early nineties, during which it acquired British Leyland, Isuzu, Fuji, part of Fiat, and parts of other companies. Ford was forced to sell Isuzu to maintain cash flow beyond the U.S. Who did they sell Isuzu to? Navistar International. Along with certain manufacturing and sourcing arrangements. Navistar hoped to go global again, as in the grand old days of International Harvester.
(10) But Navistar couldn't hold on to Isuzu either, what with a $2 billion dollar loss in 1995, and eventually sold its controlling interest in the company to Daimler Benz.
(11) Isuzu was having its own problems, since its global market share in light and medium diesels was rapidly shrinking. The cause of the problem was Cummins, which, after swallowing Caterpillar - in Brazil - had also acquired NGT, Tapei Technologies, Allison Canada, and Nansen-Renault, all in hostile takeovers, all manufacturers of diesel technologies outside of the U.S. So, Cummins had effectively cornered the controlling share of the global market outside of North America and Western Europe. (Why do you think the splashgate at their website is so heavily global?)
(12) After nine months of negotiation, Cummins and its subsidiary, Allison Canada, entered into a joint development arrangement with Isuzu, owned by Daimler, and with the surviving U.S. corporation, Allison, which was at that point partly owned by GM. Cummins, however, dominated the partnership, and eventually managed to assume Daimler's and GM's interests in Isuzu and and Allison.
(13) In the case of Isuzu, Cummins has an equal partnership with Daimler, which, of course, has also acquired Chrysler Corporation. That's why, when Ford offered Cummins a billion-dollar package to manfacture medium and light truck diesels for its vehicles in 2001, Cummins said no. Again, for antitrust reasons, a public holding company was set up to handle Isuzu as a separate corporate entity. The name of the company is Benz Transporation Technologies, of San Paulo, Brazil. BTT also is a major owner of the Benz division of Daimler Chrysler, which manufacturers most of the diesel engines in Europe. In the case of Allison, Cummins controls it through a series of holding companies ending with Inquardo, Ltd., the orginal Caterpillar-Cummins creation in Brazil. Cummins also controls a fair-size block of stock in GM, through the ownership of a cartel of South Korean and Thai banks and investment groups.
(14) Navistar has continued its free-fall in spite of its partnership with Ford in the light-duty diesel area. Three weeks ago, after the implications of labor troubles, a rise in basic resource costs, and the disasterous introduction of the 6.0L PSD had become clear, Navistar's financial arrangements with Citibank and Manufacturers B&T collapsed. Both banks arranged to float the company infrastructural loans if it would agree to a merger with -- are you ready for this? -- Inquardo, Ltd. As of last Thursday, Cummins owns 67% of Navistar through Inquardo.
Right now, Cummins makes all diesels in all pickup trucks sold in the United States. Cummins makes 73% of all diesels in all trucks sold in the world. The board of directors at Inquardo -- which isn't listed on any stock exchange -- includes 9 Cummins execs, 2 Caterpillar execs, and one Wells Fargo Bank exec. The CEO and CFO are also Cummins vice presidents. And there are Cummins execs on the boards of Daimler Chrysler, General Motors, Toyota, and Honda America. Ford, the holdout, has not been doing very well.
So it isn't a question of who owns Cummins. It's a question of who Cummins owns, and who's next. Could be Ford. Could be DC. Could be both. Ford Viper, anyone? Mercedes Mustang with a 6.0L Shelby Diesel and a Holset twin turbo?
And some have claimed that the new Navistar/Ford 6.0L is Cummins' revenge for the Bosch VP44"
Reply With Quote
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/58...n-cummins.html
Banned
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
thats alot of interesting info, but check the language in the first paragraph before a mod sees it and dings you. they are very serious about keeping this a family friendly site without profanity...not that bad of words, but still not allowed
brett
brett
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 15
Likes: 5
From: Carvel, Alberta, Canada
It's fixed
I also wanted to add that this was just for fun, i don't want to start any wars.
I thought it would be good to see if anyone else could add some educated proven info to the discussion, not heresay or guessing.
thanx
Registered User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: Mountains of Western NM
The poster on the ford site that said he heard Dodge was looking for a new engine because ford and gm had better quality engines must have an exhuast leak in his cab and he spends a lot of time there.
Trending Topics
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,303
Likes: 0
From: Minnesota
I have a guy in my class(im taking a 2 year course for my Medium/Heavy Duty Truck Technician degree). I've been in class for about 4 weeks now and this guy has said Ford has owned Cummins outright about 3 times. I just sit there and laugh. I don't even bother correcting him, I don't want to stoop down to his level. 
I'll have to print this out and set it on his tool box. I'll think he'll just toss it in the trash. lol
I'll have to print this out and set it on his tool box. I'll think he'll just toss it in the trash. lol
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Northeast PA
ive seen that post floating around, i thought about posting it here but never bothered - whats everyones opinions on that? it sounds awfully fishy, some of the stuff in there is just plain bs .... wasn't/isn't isuzu owned by gm at one time? its all sorta unbelievable to me.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 15
Likes: 5
From: Carvel, Alberta, Canada
ive seen that post floating around, i thought about posting it here but never bothered - whats everyones opinions on that? it sounds awfully fishy, some of the stuff in there is just plain bs .... wasn't/isn't isuzu owned by gm at one time? its all sorta unbelievable to me.
The other thing was to point out the funny rumours people start that do become gospel, the fact is that ford did own apaltry 10% at one time and this became" THEY OWN THE WHOLE THING!!!" What other things are there that some people believe to be true and are just hogwash.Here is some stuff I found on gm and Isuzu affiliation:
-1999 GM raised its share of equity in Isuzu to 49.0% from 37.5%.
-2003 GM's share of Isuzu's capital was altered from 49% to 12%.
Isuzu and GM established a new joint venture company called GMI Diesel Engineering Ltd. (GMIDEL) for powertrain systems.
http://www.isuzu.co.jp/world/investor/fact/gm.html
This the link to where I found it.
2006 April
Isuzu and General Motors announced the two companies came to an agreement to dissolve their equity tie-up.
http://www.isuzu.co.jp/world/investor/fact/history.html
I've been looking around more but mostly just come up with the same post.
Heck after some more checking around I even found this same stuff posted in this site already.
Just more example of people taking one thing that some one says as gospel and never trying to find the facts.
Well I got nothing but time right now so I am going to keep looking.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,266
Likes: 0
Yeah i tend not to believe it unless you can show a proven followable trail
the one that is correct ammo from whati read a few years back so might not even be true anymore.... BUT anywho
Sterling trucks bought Ford Motor Companies heavy duty division which is fact. That is why you get into the lcass 8 trucks and the inside is just the same as a f series truck. The steering wheel, the doors have the same window lines and a ford. The dash has very distict resemblences. Then, Freightliner LTD bought sterling trucks. Which ill see if i cant find the info on this one as well. Then Diamlers truck division bought freighliner and detroit diesel both at the same time. So if all the holdings are still the same... Dodge owns ford HAHA
the one that is correct ammo from whati read a few years back so might not even be true anymore.... BUT anywho
Sterling trucks bought Ford Motor Companies heavy duty division which is fact. That is why you get into the lcass 8 trucks and the inside is just the same as a f series truck. The steering wheel, the doors have the same window lines and a ford. The dash has very distict resemblences. Then, Freightliner LTD bought sterling trucks. Which ill see if i cant find the info on this one as well. Then Diamlers truck division bought freighliner and detroit diesel both at the same time. So if all the holdings are still the same... Dodge owns ford HAHA
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 15
Likes: 5
From: Carvel, Alberta, Canada
Yeah i tend not to believe it unless you can show a proven followable trail
the one that is correct ammo from whati read a few years back so might not even be true anymore.... BUT anywho
Sterling trucks bought Ford Motor Companies heavy duty division which is fact. That is why you get into the lcass 8 trucks and the inside is just the same as a f series truck. The steering wheel, the doors have the same window lines and a ford. The dash has very distict resemblences. Then, Freightliner LTD bought sterling trucks. Which ill see if i cant find the info on this one as well. Then Diamlers truck division bought freighliner and detroit diesel both at the same time. So if all the holdings are still the same... Dodge owns ford HAHA
the one that is correct ammo from whati read a few years back so might not even be true anymore.... BUT anywho
Sterling trucks bought Ford Motor Companies heavy duty division which is fact. That is why you get into the lcass 8 trucks and the inside is just the same as a f series truck. The steering wheel, the doors have the same window lines and a ford. The dash has very distict resemblences. Then, Freightliner LTD bought sterling trucks. Which ill see if i cant find the info on this one as well. Then Diamlers truck division bought freighliner and detroit diesel both at the same time. So if all the holdings are still the same... Dodge owns ford HAHA
One intresting fact is that Cerberus does own 51% of GMAC, the finance arm of GM. Here is the link where I found that info.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/14/news...sale/index.htm
Lets hope that Cerbeus can give Chrysler a shot in the arm.
Here some of what I did find:
According to this link http://www.isuzu.co.jp/world/investo...tation_104.pdf
it looks like isuzu is entirely japanese owned, majority sharehold seems to
be mitsubishi. If you read long enough you will find the stock holders
all listed. NO Ford, No Cummins, and a very small GM involvment. And according to the isuzu links in
my last post Ford has never had any affiliation with isuzu, never mind owning it. I can find no truth
to anything listed in that post relating to isuzu. Maybe some one else can but i can't.
The only reference to "Inquardo, Ltd" on the net anywhere is in this post as it is repeated.I
tried it in different ways too.
1994 CUMMINS ENGINE COMPANY, INC., AND SUBSIDIARIES
http://sec.edgar-online.com/1994/03/.../Section31.asp
Navistar
Leading Supplier of Mid-Range Diesel Engines. The Company is the leading supplier of mid-range diesel engines in the
160-300 horsepower range and is currently the exclusive supplier of diesel engines to The Ford Motor Company ("Ford")
for use in its diesel-powered light trucks and vans. On October 29, 1997, the Company finalized an agreement with
Ford to supply newly designed, advanced technology engines through the year 2012 for use in Ford's F-series pickup
trucks and Econoline vans with over 8,500 lbs. gross vehicle weight ("GVW"). This 10-year agreement is scheduled to
become effective beginning with model year 2003 and will replace the Company's current agreement with Ford, which will
expire after model year 2002. In addition, the Company was recently selected by Ford to negotiate an extended agreement
to supply diesel engines for select Ford under 8,500 lbs. GVW light trucks and sport utility vehicles, such as the Ford
Expedition, Lincoln Navigator, F-150 and F-250 pick-ups, and Econoline 150 and 250 van models. Ford does not currently
use a diesel engine in its under 8,500 lbs. GVW light trucks and sport utility vehicles. The Company has been supplying
diesel engines to Ford since 1982.
http://nav360.client.shareholder.com...950131-98-3720
No matter what anyone says about ford changing power plant providers(cat, cummins, etc. NOT TRUE)
One thing I have found is that there is a wide ranging opinion that dodge is using a "THIRD PARTY PRODUCT" (namely
the Cummins engine) while ford and chevy are using their own product. Well the more I look into this on the net,
I am seeing that while dodge doesn't own the cummins engine neither does GM own the Dmax (now a seprate company owned wholly by
Isuzu) and ford doesn't own the powerstroke(owned wholly by navistar).No where can I find that navistar was ever a
subsiduary of ford.
Now it might seem I am jump around from "some info here" to "some info there"....I am. There is so much to look at and piece through that it is too hard to go in a straight line and even understand it all.
I think I'm gonna be sick.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,266
Likes: 0
yeah like i said its pry not treu anymore, and i guess i didnt mean to make it into one those threads. facts are king in my book anyway. just throught i would point out the onlyone i knew to be true and the climax. my bad
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Northeast PA
kod that link between ford and dodge is funny, ill have to fool around with a ford owner next time i hear "ford owns cummings." Cummins, Cat, and Navistar are clearly seperate companies. I read somewhere Cummins and Navistar have a supply agreement but that is probably regarding the fact that you can order cummins motors in International trucks and I doubt it has anything to do with Cummins making motors for them.