I swear they are just trying to ruin the diesel world!!
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I just don't like the GREEN people..........
I read some good reasons in some of the posts why letting your engine idle can be a good idea whether it be gas or diesel and I for one will do it when I feel it's warranted. But why can't people just say it's a bad article without making it about hippies and greeners?
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Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Orlando FL
Bingo. This is really what this whole thread is about and any thread that involves any person that is concerned about the environment in which they live and raise their kids. They are automatically some greener hippie wacko. I'm so sick of the divide in this country. I would bet money that everyone of you guys knocking this lady listens to Rush Limbaugh and some of you even felt compelled to knock the whole global warming science. I didn't really get that she was knocking diesel engines. It's always conservatives, always, that don't believe in global warming. It seems to be a political choice not to believe it. Why, because it's associated with greeners. And any mucho, diesel truck driving man in his right mind knows better than to associate himself with them folks.
I read some good reasons in some of the posts why letting your engine idle can be a good idea whether it be gas or diesel and I for one will do it when I feel it's warranted. But why can't people just say it's a bad article without making it about hippies and greeners?
I read some good reasons in some of the posts why letting your engine idle can be a good idea whether it be gas or diesel and I for one will do it when I feel it's warranted. But why can't people just say it's a bad article without making it about hippies and greeners?
Great post my friend. I could not agree more. That's the way it is in society unfortunately
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 701
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From: Indianapolis, Indianna
OK, here we go:
Hybrid cars are slow, complex, & expensive. I feel for the mechanic who has to try to fix a broken one (have heard several horror stories). When driven at freeway speeds they kill their batteries & in so doing they become gutless, underpowered & inefficient. The high tech batteries used are also not commonly recycled like lead acids . .can you say environmental nightmare when millions of them hit the salvage yards??
Idling engines (gas or diesel) for more than a few minutes is not good for them mechanically. Idling a cold engine longer than the time it takes to get oil pressure & smooth out is not good for it. The best way to warm an engine is to drive the vehicle at moderate speeds & loads till warmed . . (no hot rodding at this time). This has been proven in practice by nearly everyone i know & is the manufacturer's recommended way to warm most engines (CUMMINS too). if you want a warm cab in the morning, do it the best way, plug your vehicle in . . . .
The evironazis are morons, I agree there . . . We should all at least practice some reasonable respect for the planet we live on tho ..but current regs are nuts.
Hybrid cars are slow, complex, & expensive. I feel for the mechanic who has to try to fix a broken one (have heard several horror stories). When driven at freeway speeds they kill their batteries & in so doing they become gutless, underpowered & inefficient. The high tech batteries used are also not commonly recycled like lead acids . .can you say environmental nightmare when millions of them hit the salvage yards??
Idling engines (gas or diesel) for more than a few minutes is not good for them mechanically. Idling a cold engine longer than the time it takes to get oil pressure & smooth out is not good for it. The best way to warm an engine is to drive the vehicle at moderate speeds & loads till warmed . . (no hot rodding at this time). This has been proven in practice by nearly everyone i know & is the manufacturer's recommended way to warm most engines (CUMMINS too). if you want a warm cab in the morning, do it the best way, plug your vehicle in . . . .
The evironazis are morons, I agree there . . . We should all at least practice some reasonable respect for the planet we live on tho ..but current regs are nuts.
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Joined: Dec 2007
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As much as I'm a fan of reducing our consumption of a limited resource (we'll run outta oil way before smog kills us) I have to wonder if there aren't better things to work on.
Seen traffic where some of us live? Try 50,000 automobiles idling. For an hour or even more. I would not be surprised if the number was -far- higher but that's the reality of traffic where I live (DFW metro mess). Every -day-. It sickens and saddens me yet there I sit with the rest of the throng because this is what our world has made us and what we have made ourselves.
So-before we try to fix something 'personal' like how long some trucker gets to idle lets fix something a bit more community-oriented. Traffic may not be a big deal where you live but it sure is here and in other major cities. No, we can't move to the country. No we can't all carpool or ride busses (it's a 10 mile ride to public transportation then a 2+hour trip). The streets need to be wider. Smarter exit strategies need to be utilized and frankly we need some of the draconian law enforcement used in other countries. "Why am I being pulled over, officer?" 'Because you're STUPID!'. (last minute lane changes, swerving, underspeed, passing on the right, fast-line / slow-lane violators etc, HOV when you're not legal etc).
Seen traffic where some of us live? Try 50,000 automobiles idling. For an hour or even more. I would not be surprised if the number was -far- higher but that's the reality of traffic where I live (DFW metro mess). Every -day-. It sickens and saddens me yet there I sit with the rest of the throng because this is what our world has made us and what we have made ourselves.
So-before we try to fix something 'personal' like how long some trucker gets to idle lets fix something a bit more community-oriented. Traffic may not be a big deal where you live but it sure is here and in other major cities. No, we can't move to the country. No we can't all carpool or ride busses (it's a 10 mile ride to public transportation then a 2+hour trip). The streets need to be wider. Smarter exit strategies need to be utilized and frankly we need some of the draconian law enforcement used in other countries. "Why am I being pulled over, officer?" 'Because you're STUPID!'. (last minute lane changes, swerving, underspeed, passing on the right, fast-line / slow-lane violators etc, HOV when you're not legal etc).
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,118
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From: Winchester, TN
Bingo. This is really what this whole thread is about and any thread that involves any person that is concerned about the environment in which they live and raise their kids. They are automatically some greener hippie wacko. I'm so sick of the divide in this country. I would bet money that everyone of you guys knocking this lady listens to Rush Limbaugh and some of you even felt compelled to knock the whole global warming science. I didn't really get that she was knocking diesel engines. It's always conservatives, always, that don't believe in global warming. It seems to be a political choice not to believe it. Why, because it's associated with greeners. And any mucho, diesel truck driving man in his right mind knows better than to associate himself with them folks.
I read some good reasons in some of the posts why letting your engine idle can be a good idea whether it be gas or diesel and I for one will do it when I feel it's warranted. But why can't people just say it's a bad article without making it about hippies and greeners?
I read some good reasons in some of the posts why letting your engine idle can be a good idea whether it be gas or diesel and I for one will do it when I feel it's warranted. But why can't people just say it's a bad article without making it about hippies and greeners?
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,615
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From: Nevada
I didn't really find it offensive. I think they're right about the benefits of not idling a vehicle. I remember reading somewhere that the US would save something like millions of gallons of diesel if big rigs just shut off their engines. Not sure how they came up with the "uses more fuel idling than driving" part but whatever, I don't have to listen to that. I also think it's lame how the author uses the terms "global warming gasses" for something as little as idling a vehicle.
As far as global warming, I can't deny that it's happening. The problem is that it's too hyped up. I guess that's what it takes to get the word out. The media posts articles about global warming and uses words that make it seem like the end of the world. People think it's a joke; and well, the way mainstream media presents it, it is... The world won't suffocate tomorrow. Like DieselJunky said, I think there should be some restriction on air quality in cities, but without global warming to think about, who would vote in favor of air quality laws? Most of the time such laws means more cost for the consumer. But really, has emissions control really hurt us? Diesels are more powerful and get better gas mileage than 20 years ago. If you want to see how it is to live in a place with poor air quality, go to China. Their fog is not water, it's pollution.
As far as global warming, I can't deny that it's happening. The problem is that it's too hyped up. I guess that's what it takes to get the word out. The media posts articles about global warming and uses words that make it seem like the end of the world. People think it's a joke; and well, the way mainstream media presents it, it is... The world won't suffocate tomorrow. Like DieselJunky said, I think there should be some restriction on air quality in cities, but without global warming to think about, who would vote in favor of air quality laws? Most of the time such laws means more cost for the consumer. But really, has emissions control really hurt us? Diesels are more powerful and get better gas mileage than 20 years ago. If you want to see how it is to live in a place with poor air quality, go to China. Their fog is not water, it's pollution.
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Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Dakotas
[quote=96_12V;1854545]And perhaps this perspective might also shift the thinking just a little bit...
Livestock Are the Real Climate Pigs
By Drew Winter
WardsAuto.com, Nov 1, 2007 11:01 AM
Commentary“Climate Pig” is an insult that will sting European auto makers for some time to come after getting an earful from Greenpeace at the most recent Frankfurt auto show.
But it turns out that real pigs – along with cattle, sheep and other livestock – impact climate more swinishly than cars and trucks.
Do you believe that 96 12valve? What do you think would happen if you locked yourself in a garage with a running car? You will die I think most people know that. But if you locked yourself in a garage with a cow you will be just fine unless it is a real mean cow. So if their is a 100% chance the car will kill you how is the cow the main problum. Mabey we should kill all the wildlife first
But on positive diesel news VW Polo gets 60+ mpg which is better then the preius not only that but it runs cleaner on pure Diesel
Livestock Are the Real Climate Pigs
By Drew Winter
WardsAuto.com, Nov 1, 2007 11:01 AM
Commentary“Climate Pig” is an insult that will sting European auto makers for some time to come after getting an earful from Greenpeace at the most recent Frankfurt auto show.
But it turns out that real pigs – along with cattle, sheep and other livestock – impact climate more swinishly than cars and trucks.
Do you believe that 96 12valve? What do you think would happen if you locked yourself in a garage with a running car? You will die I think most people know that. But if you locked yourself in a garage with a cow you will be just fine unless it is a real mean cow. So if their is a 100% chance the car will kill you how is the cow the main problum. Mabey we should kill all the wildlife first
But on positive diesel news VW Polo gets 60+ mpg which is better then the preius not only that but it runs cleaner on pure Diesel
Administrator
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,331
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From: Kalamazoo, Michigan
I don't care anything about all the enviro-babble, I'm gonna do what I want, when I want and how I want, and if some green nut doesn't like it, we can go out back of the woodshed and, uh, 'discuss' it!
chaikwa.
chaikwa.
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Were you crying crocodile tears for the oil companies when gas/diesel were under a $1 a gallon and proifts were at all tiome lows less than a decade ago? I didn't think so. The last thing they need is someone requiring them to spend money on R&D for soome phoney solution to our need for oil. That's as bad as what the green freaks would like to do having us all in horse and buggies. Their business is refining oil not looking for alternatives. There is plenty of it now burn it up and be done with it. I know it's a pain to spend $100 filling up a truck but all things considered oil is still relatively cheap and when it's all gone another way will be found necessity is the mother of invention not government intervention. Apologies to the admins if these comments are a little too political.
Very eloquent yet brilliant in it's simplicity Hey boyz! Let's bern it up til derz no more left! YeeeeHaWWWW!
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 522
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From: Weymouth, MA
This whole Green buzz word crap is driving me nuts. People are "going green" because it is fashionable and popular. GRRRR...losers! If you are an pro-environment person that is fine but if you are some stupid Paris Hilton wannabe who suddenly gives a crap about the trees cause it is the cool thing to do go take a nap on I-95
I am sorry that was mean but I hate this 'ooh everyone else is doing it, keeping up with the Jones crap.' I am a bio-diesel fan and have been long before these pop culture Al Gore green movement crap! I am sorry this stuff gets me all ****** off.
I am sorry that was mean but I hate this 'ooh everyone else is doing it, keeping up with the Jones crap.' I am a bio-diesel fan and have been long before these pop culture Al Gore green movement crap! I am sorry this stuff gets me all ****** off.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,241
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From: NW Indiana
[QUOTE=RAMRODD;1855942]
There are hundreds of MILLIONS of cows and other livestock in this country. It's got to add something.
And perhaps this perspective might also shift the thinking just a little bit...
Livestock Are the Real Climate Pigs
By Drew Winter
WardsAuto.com, Nov 1, 2007 11:01 AM
Commentary“Climate Pig” is an insult that will sting European auto makers for some time to come after getting an earful from Greenpeace at the most recent Frankfurt auto show.
But it turns out that real pigs – along with cattle, sheep and other livestock – impact climate more swinishly than cars and trucks.
Do you believe that 96 12valve? What do you think would happen if you locked yourself in a garage with a running car? You will die I think most people know that. But if you locked yourself in a garage with a cow you will be just fine unless it is a real mean cow. So if their is a 100% chance the car will kill you how is the cow the main problum. Mabey we should kill all the wildlife first
But on positive diesel news VW Polo gets 60+ mpg which is better then the preius not only that but it runs cleaner on pure Diesel
Livestock Are the Real Climate Pigs
By Drew Winter
WardsAuto.com, Nov 1, 2007 11:01 AM
Commentary“Climate Pig” is an insult that will sting European auto makers for some time to come after getting an earful from Greenpeace at the most recent Frankfurt auto show.
But it turns out that real pigs – along with cattle, sheep and other livestock – impact climate more swinishly than cars and trucks.
Do you believe that 96 12valve? What do you think would happen if you locked yourself in a garage with a running car? You will die I think most people know that. But if you locked yourself in a garage with a cow you will be just fine unless it is a real mean cow. So if their is a 100% chance the car will kill you how is the cow the main problum. Mabey we should kill all the wildlife first
But on positive diesel news VW Polo gets 60+ mpg which is better then the preius not only that but it runs cleaner on pure Diesel
Banned
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,283
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From: Coeur d'Alene ID
I just don't like the GREEN people who knock diesel vehicles. They have the same excuses, diesels are loud, diesel stink, diesels cause allergies blah, blah, blah.
But instead they push Ethanol which even if the whole world tried we couldnt provide anywhere the quanity of fuel that would be needed.
They are also now trying to push hydrogen, which in my eyes is a bad idea because it has already been used in the past and it has literaly blown up in their faces, the hindenburg and the hydrogen bomb are two big ones that come to mind.
Also, (copied from a site)
The wide flammability range, 4% to 74% in air, and the small amount of energy required for ignition necessitate special handling to prevent the inadvertent mixing of hydrogen with air. Care should be taken to eliminate sources of ignition, such as sparks from electrical equipment, static electricity sparks, open flames or any extremely hot objects. Hydrogen and air mixtures within the flammable range can explode and may burn with a pale blue, almost invisible flame.
Instead they should be concentrating on different ways to make biodiesel, such as coal into diesel, used oil, new oil, waste and so on.
The biggest thing in that article that gets me is when they say:
"Besides contributing to global warming, diesel engine emissions can cause a host of health problems: asthma attacks, impaired lung function, heart problems, and even death"
COME ON PEOPLE, what do you think gasoline engines have been doing for 100 years now! And anyways I always read that a diesel produces less emissions than a gasoline vehicle, and that the actual diesel "soot" isnt an airborne gas instead it falls to the ground and just gets washed away.
I dont know. Maybe instead of trying to make the latest and greatest in fuels, people should concentrate in taking the waste products we have and making fuels from that.
I am always getting into this arguement with my sister-in-law who is a supposed "greenie". She sits and talks about hybrids and hydrogen, and I just look at her and ask her how much of her piece of junk 1992 Jeep cherokee (which doesnt even have to take emissions anymore because it to old) runs on batteries or hydrogen, and then she gets mad and tells me that she cant afford a hybrid. I just tell her at least I am trying by using biodiesel, and trying to become less dependant of foreign oil.
To top it off, there are people who actually go to the extent to collect used oil and makee their own biodiesel and then get pooped on because they arent paying a road tax for it. I don't understand that if you arent making a profit on it and not hurting anyone why they can do this. For example, in Illinois where I live, you were able to make 400 gallons of bio a year without any tax. Our wonderful govenor decided that wasnt good enough so now he has passed a bill that if a person makes ANY bio you will now have to pay a road tax, or be audited and possibly arrested.
Done with rant.
But instead they push Ethanol which even if the whole world tried we couldnt provide anywhere the quanity of fuel that would be needed.
They are also now trying to push hydrogen, which in my eyes is a bad idea because it has already been used in the past and it has literaly blown up in their faces, the hindenburg and the hydrogen bomb are two big ones that come to mind.
Also, (copied from a site)
The wide flammability range, 4% to 74% in air, and the small amount of energy required for ignition necessitate special handling to prevent the inadvertent mixing of hydrogen with air. Care should be taken to eliminate sources of ignition, such as sparks from electrical equipment, static electricity sparks, open flames or any extremely hot objects. Hydrogen and air mixtures within the flammable range can explode and may burn with a pale blue, almost invisible flame.
Instead they should be concentrating on different ways to make biodiesel, such as coal into diesel, used oil, new oil, waste and so on.
The biggest thing in that article that gets me is when they say:
"Besides contributing to global warming, diesel engine emissions can cause a host of health problems: asthma attacks, impaired lung function, heart problems, and even death"
COME ON PEOPLE, what do you think gasoline engines have been doing for 100 years now! And anyways I always read that a diesel produces less emissions than a gasoline vehicle, and that the actual diesel "soot" isnt an airborne gas instead it falls to the ground and just gets washed away.
I dont know. Maybe instead of trying to make the latest and greatest in fuels, people should concentrate in taking the waste products we have and making fuels from that.
I am always getting into this arguement with my sister-in-law who is a supposed "greenie". She sits and talks about hybrids and hydrogen, and I just look at her and ask her how much of her piece of junk 1992 Jeep cherokee (which doesnt even have to take emissions anymore because it to old) runs on batteries or hydrogen, and then she gets mad and tells me that she cant afford a hybrid. I just tell her at least I am trying by using biodiesel, and trying to become less dependant of foreign oil.
To top it off, there are people who actually go to the extent to collect used oil and makee their own biodiesel and then get pooped on because they arent paying a road tax for it. I don't understand that if you arent making a profit on it and not hurting anyone why they can do this. For example, in Illinois where I live, you were able to make 400 gallons of bio a year without any tax. Our wonderful govenor decided that wasnt good enough so now he has passed a bill that if a person makes ANY bio you will now have to pay a road tax, or be audited and possibly arrested.
Done with rant.
The main slant of the Green article was idling wastes fuel. That is a provable and is true. You know it use to be said that "A penny saved is a penny earned" then it changed to "A penny saved is a waste of time", well it is truly time to start trying to save those pennies (drops of fuel) as it is worth your while.
But I still can not believe you used the Hydrogen bomb as a reason not to use Hydrogen
I will have a smile on my face all day thinking about that silly comment!
Banned
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,283
Likes: 1
From: Coeur d'Alene ID
[QUOTE=trik396;1856125]
Man this one is almost as bad as the Hydrogen bomb comment.
There are about 130 million cows in the US, 200 years ago there were a few hundred thousand but there were almost 100 million buffalo at that time. So there is more or less a wash on that one.
A second comment about the emissions of cows is that they only generate emission in the process of eating and digesting food. This food would, if left to rot or be consumed by people or some other beast would produce more or less the same emissions. The only difference is people can point source it to a feed lot and say look what comes out of there.
Man this one is almost as bad as the Hydrogen bomb comment.
There are about 130 million cows in the US, 200 years ago there were a few hundred thousand but there were almost 100 million buffalo at that time. So there is more or less a wash on that one.
A second comment about the emissions of cows is that they only generate emission in the process of eating and digesting food. This food would, if left to rot or be consumed by people or some other beast would produce more or less the same emissions. The only difference is people can point source it to a feed lot and say look what comes out of there.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 65
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What I find is that the so-called "Green" people are actually mostly ignorant of the science behind their "beliefs". Very few (none that I have met) can actually have a rational discussion on climate proxies, data errors, or possible explanations of what causes global temperatures to rise (and fall). For the Greenies, it is a religion and no facts need be considered.
If I look at the people leading this movement, it seems that they fall into two camps: a) the socialists/communists who think government is the solution to all problems; and b) those who are in it to make money, like Gore and Mann.
I feel sorry for those who are unable to think for themselves and have a rational, fact based discussion of what might be happening. The greens are far more likely than the skeptics to engage in ad-hominum attacks, which to me is a sign of a weak argument.
One last thing - do you know why Greenland is named that?
If I look at the people leading this movement, it seems that they fall into two camps: a) the socialists/communists who think government is the solution to all problems; and b) those who are in it to make money, like Gore and Mann.
I feel sorry for those who are unable to think for themselves and have a rational, fact based discussion of what might be happening. The greens are far more likely than the skeptics to engage in ad-hominum attacks, which to me is a sign of a weak argument.
One last thing - do you know why Greenland is named that?
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,241
Likes: 1
From: NW Indiana
Camper Andy... why don't you go buy a hydrogen beemer then you can have that in your avatar instead of the rolls... I hear they only cost around $300,000. Chump change.... You save the environment going that route.... I'll spend 300grand enjoying myself...
Get my point?
Get my point?
