Just currious.

What's the history/story of the Diesel engine GM introduced in the passanger cars.

From what I understand, GM took a gasoline engine block and converted it to a Diesel - leading to a bad rep among much of the general populas regarding Diesels.

Just currious as to what block they used, when they did it, and what did they do to convert the block.

 

They used the 350 rocket olds engine IIRC , and AFAIK, the bottom end was basically stock gasser parts, but they changed the heads, they were famous for breaking crankshafts...

 

The history of Diesel engines at General Motors has not been positive. In the 1970s, the company was unable to power its large cars and trucks with their emissions-strangled engines. Like many other companies, GM turned to Diesel power, directing the Oldsmobile division to develop two V6 and one V8 to be shared with all divisions.

Oldsmobile's engines, the 5.7 L LF9 and 4.3 L LF7 V8s and 4.3 L LT6/LT7/LS2 V6, were notoriously unreliable. Although over one million were sold between 1978 and 1985, the failure rate of GM's engines ruined the reputation of Diesel engines in general in the United States market. Eventually, a class action lawsuit resulted in an arbitration system under the supervision of the Federal Trade Commission where consumers could claim 80% of the original cost of the engine in the event of a failure.

The Oldsmobile Diesel’s Problems

Despite the fact that these engines looked in large part like their gasoline cousins, they were indeed quite different. The castings were much thicker and heavier, and a higher quality alloy was used for the block and heads. The main and rod bearing journals were also increased in size to compensate for the higher operating stresses and pressures that diesels exert on their reciprocating parts. The primary problem with GM's Diesel engines of the 1970s was due in large part to poor fuel quality (diesel fuel was notoriously filthy and contaminated with water in the late 1970's), which caused corrosion in the fuel injection pump. This corrosion could (and often did) cause an incorrect injection cycle, which would produce abnormally high cylinder pressures. This in turn would cause the cylinder head to "lift" up off of the block, and stretch (or even break) the head bolts. Once the head gasket was compromised, the gasket would leak coolant into the cylinder. At 22.5:1 compression, there was little volume left in the cylinder at TDC. The uncompressible quality of liquids means that the engine would hydro lock, breaking pistons, crankshafts, connecting rods, and other parts, resulting in complete and catastrophic engine damage. Why then, did other Diesel engines, from GM and other companies, not have these problems? The answer lies in the lack of an effective water separating system, such as can be found on other diesel applications. Overall, the main ingredients of disaster that affected this engine lie in: 1) A poorly designed fuel system, which was fostered by a desire to insulate the consumer from the unpleasant aspects of Diesel ownership. 2) A misguided attempt to market the diesel engine as if it was as convenient to operate and maintain as a gasoline engine. 3) A poorly trained service staff which often used the incorrect oils and service procedures for this (and any, for that matter) Diesel engine. These factors combined to create the ultimate downfall of this engine. In the hands of an experienced diesel operator, these engines can (and often do) travel for hundreds of thousands of trouble free miles. However, for a society of people who just "gas and go", this engine was particularly ill suited to the task.


In the 1980 and 1990s GM produced the 6.2 liter and 6.5 liter V8 Diesels for use in light trucks and in the HMMWV.

Today, GM uses Diesel engines from DMAX (for trucks) but offers no domestic Diesel passenger cars. General Motors' Opel division is one of the leading proponents of Diesel cars in Europe, however. Opel uses common rail direct injection engines designed and produced by Fiat S.p.A and Isuzu. Ownership of both designs was acquired by GM in 2005, and a new GM Powertrain division in Turin, Italy (home of Fiat) was founded to manage these assets. GM Daewoo recently licensed two common rail designs from VM Motori.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM_engines#Diesel

 

Good write up! My uncle bought a Diesel Olds Delta 88 when they first came out (1978??). What a POS! It actually blew up idling in his driveway, hole in the block and everything. IIRC the thing was less than a year old when it happened, needless to say the Olds was`nt long for his stable and it was replaced by another Olds, a gasser Station wagon.

 

Didn't GM still make thier 2 strokes up until the late eighties?

 

My dad had a full load 78 half ton with that diesel and my buddy had an 80 Cutlass/Gutlass.

Dad got rid of his within a year and went back to his Slobmobile Olds 98 Regency.
My buddy ran his til it detonated.
He took the air filter out and never told anyone, and drove it like that for over a year. When it knocked itself to death, we looked at the intake and there was about 1/4" of gooey muck stuck to the intake...ALL THE WAY AS FAR AS I COULD SEE. They denied warranty...the nerve of them.

 

My older brother had 3 different Olds(early 80's) with the GREAT 5.7 DIESEL, he bought them VERY cheap, then they would blow up soon after(bottom end and heads), and then he'd buy the next one. After the 3rd time it just wasn't worth the hassle anymore, even if they were dirt cheap to buy.

 

i've had numerous 5.7's and 4.3's. my friends dad still has at least 6 that he drives.as rammtuff mentioned headgasket(headbolt) failure .,usually on the center bolt bottom row.,when doing the headgaskets it is imperitive to replace all the bolts.or your gonna be doing it again shortly.i can't recall ever doing the gaskets more then once on any of em.seems like most of the problems were in the 78-80 range,mid 80 they went to a different injector pump and the tougher DX block.i can't recall seeing a newer one with a broken crank like those early ones,man my godfather bought a new 78 "88" and it broke the crank before it hit 20,000 miles,then they put in a new shortblock and that thing was running up til last year on the same headgaskets and pump.they sold lots of em to farmers out here in iowa and i still see quite a few of them on the roads around here.there is even an 80 1/2 ton stepside pickup here in town with the original 5.7 in it,he just will not part with it,i've tried to buy that thing from him at least a dozen times.

 

I had, and loved for a short while, a 1979 diesel Sierra Classic that I ordered and planned to keep forever. I *really* stacked up the options and came up with a $13,000 truck...

My dad, a trucker, bought a 1979 diesel Olds Regency 98 for my mom. Nice car - big, soft-riding, comfortable, and you almost never heard the engine.

Getting 23 or 24 mpg in a full-size truck in 1979 was a joy. I also learned to carry two spare fuel fulters and a gallon of diesel with me. If the engine started "missing," it was time to change the fuel filter.

These engines died in spectacular fashion. My first engine broke the crankshaft at 10,000 miles. The second engine hammered a piston into the #3 cylinder head because the rod broke at 48,000 miles. GM paid 1/2 for that one, and they assured me that the engine had been "beefed up.". That engine made it to 98,000 miles, and then it spun the bearing in the rear journal. Finally, I was purely disgusted.

So, it was love/hate. When the engine RAN, it was nice to have. It always got great fuel mileage, and it was easy to maintain. The TH-400 transmission worked flawlessly, both on my truck and my mom's car.

Quality control wasn't great in 1979. I used to make notes about what had fallen off the truck. My mom's 98 was a LOT better in that department.

By the way, it was a great looking truck. It was a long WB with a charcoal and light grey two-tone paint job. I got a matching Lear capper for it, and the thing was beautiful. I loved it, but it was a darn expensive love.

I drove it until 1985. When it blew up, I towed it back to the dealer I bought it from and told him to order me a truck and loan me a car until it came in.

I got a Pinto, and 6 weeks later, I had a new gasser.

A year after that, I got an upgrade to my aircraft mechanics license, and on the way back from Atlanta, a little red blip appeared in my mirror. It approached quickly, zoomed past me, and disappeared. I had no idea what it was... Five days later the truck was traded, and I owned a 1986 Fiero GT.

And that's a story for another forum.

 

my old work buddies had a new Olds station wagon that they used as a work wagon that made a 180 mile a day work commute. Don't remember the year but was the last year GM produced it. They ran it for 425000 miles and 5 trannys, two rear axles before it was retired for a 3500 Dodge 15 passenger van. Seems the last two years it was in production were the better ones. As was mentioned it really gave diesel engines a bad name in our car/light duty trucks.........JIM

 

Tell us about the Fiero ! I don't know anything about them.

 

That's a whole 'nuter thread. More GM junk thrown on the consumer. My (now wife) had one when we met. We owned it about a week after we moved in together. What a complete POS.

 

Looking back, it is just way too bad GM didn't use a good inj system like a Bosch P-pump or even a Bosch VE style pump... I understand that the old roosa-master pump was a POS.
Wasn't that same crappy pump used on the Ford 6.9NA? Buddy had one and was always fuming about the hell his roosa-master pump was giving him.

K.

 

SafeHarbor,

Would that other Forum happen to be PFF? I frequent PFF and DTR. Superduty check out www.fiero.nl It will keep you busy for days. rammtuff, Fiero's where no worse than any other mid 80's GM cars. I have had several and none where POS.

Fred

 

My Fiero had a lot of electrical problems. 86 was the last year for the Holley fuel injection and the 4-speed manual.

Superduty, the Fiero was basically a proof of concept car for PMV to test plastic body panels in the real world. They took an X-car drivetrain, turned it around, and welded the tie rods into place. The "GT" models had the 2.8 L V6 making about 130 HP. It was the first true injection engine I'd ever had, and I loved the way I could just bump the starter and it was running.

Power steering was not available untill the last model, in 1988, and it was electric/hydraulic. The real car was inside under the body panels, and they could be swapped around. The color was in the plastic rather than paint, so it handled things that would cause minor dings on other cars without any damage at all. Every panel was flexible.

It wasn't a death trap, either, which is what you'd think for such a tiny car. The space frame was STRONG, and there are pictures of some PHENOMENAL accidents out there on the web that people walked away from.

The Fiero was an enthusiastic goer, but it had something like 68% of it's weight on the rear axle. One of the things you don't want to do with a Fiero GT is drop a wheel off into the grass and then snap it back onto the road. I did that ONCE, and the oscillations scared the crap outta me.

It was great fun, but the insurance was tough, and I had constant problems with the wiring harness. The wipers would come on for no reason, and stop working when it rained. The headlight covers might or might open at any given time. The heater blower motor changed speeds all by itself. The 4-way flashers would make the key-in-door-open chime sound every time they flashed. It was a happy mess in the electrical department.

There were two things that I always did with the Fiero. If the weather was nice, I'd take off the moon roof and put it in the front end. There were special holders for it there. I also liked to look at and clean the engine.

I'm glad that I had the Fiero in my life, and I'm really glad that it's not anymore.

Oh, and it had different size tires on the front and back. I replaced the rear Eagle GT+s at 17K. The fronts made it to 28K. I replaced them with Michellins, and they were still going strong when I traded it in in 1988. It became a little Plymouth that was neither great or bad, and that became an S-10, and that became a '93 Dakota that I ordered in Nov 92 and drove until Nov 2005, when I got my CTD.

Fred, I'm not on any Fiero forums. At the time, I was a member of FOCA (Fiero Owners Club of America) and the Pontiac-Oakland Club. My dad still has a '53 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe hydramatic/straight eight that I'll inherit some day. Talk about a boulevard ride... By the time the rear end hits a bump, the front end has forgotten about. Talk about kingpins... cross winds are an ADVENTURE in that old car.

Lamar