Ok, anyone have any experience with the older style big block chevys. I'm thinking I just might fix up my 90 RV style (like a 73-87) crew cab chevy 4x4 to use out on the land.

It is a 3500 srw 4x4 454/400 and I'm wondering if these trucks are beasty enough to tow a lot... Like in Tx a farm truck can go GCVW 48,000 lbs...

I want a cummins but right now no one is even remotely interested in buying my 04 1500 Hemi so it looks like I'm stuck with it for now.

 

The big block Chevy's will pull alot, but will put a huirt on the wallet with gas prices. The diesel will get close to 2x the mileage the big block will, without really working it. It is your choice, but mine is definately the diesel.

 

My brother has a 95 Crew Cab 3500 Chevy, TBI 454 and a 5 speed. It will pass mine with the same load under 25K, but usually a gear, maybe 2 lower. The Cummins will pull almost anything in high gear, with a few mods of course. When he's in 4th gear, grossing 20K, he getting ~6-7mpg tops! I can average 12.5mpg pretty easy anywhere below 30K gross, and under 20K, I can usually stay up in the 13.5-14mpg range That's with ~330hp, and can pull anything I want, as fast as I want

The 454 is a strong engine, but with todays fuel prices, it's not for pulling heavy.

I can still take him empty too, even 1500lbs heavier
Chris

 

YOu can't talk about a 454 Chevy without talking about the laughably short connecting rods and how this causes the bores to wear so quickly.

Connecting rod length should always be placed in the context of the crankshaft stroke. The 6.135" length is way too short for the 4" stroke. The ratio is only
1.53. Ideally, it would be up in the 1.7 range. In other words, the 4" stroke should have a longer rod that's around 6.8" long.

Interestingly, a factory 426 Hemi rod was 6.86" long, but the stroke was even shorter than a 454's at only 3.75"

The short rod length of the 454 reflects the fact that it was conceived as a truck engine and they used the short rods thinking it would help low end tq (and it does, usually).

For the record, the worst rod ratio of a domestic V-8 that I am aware of was a 400 Small block Chevy. Something like 1.45!

 

While I am a fan of a good rod ratio for durability reasons, the shorter rod invariably does have some good attributes (believe it or not!). Time at TDC is low - not much dwell compared to something like a 440 Mopar (which has an excellent rod ratio of almost 2:1) which certainly contributes to having a more fuel efficient engine at similar torque levels. Reciporcating mass is notably lower with the shorter rod, also. The 454 rod is quite stout yet still weighs considerably less than that of a 440. As a result, you can typically see higher rpm operating ranges from the 454 compared to a 440 of similar specs. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge 440 fan and it's insane power curves that is difficult for a 454 to match but after many years of experience with both, I have not been so quick to right off the poor rod ratio of the 454. I have seen short deck 454's exceed 300k in heavy work vehicles without a rebuild so, we can see that while rod ratio is an important factor in the durability of a bottom end, it clearly isn't the only factor. 7 years ago we pulled a tall deck (it does have a somewhat better rod ratio) out of a running dump truck that had 500k on it and it still had the standard bore!

I would expect the mileage gain to be more than double.....I had a 1987 4 speed 454 TBI dually 4x4 and could only manage about 8 mpg unloaded.....I see 20 mpg out of my 3500 CTD without trying very hard.

 

heh, I'm not to worried about mpg. I might throw a flat bed or dully bed on it and a DRW axle or something.

I have 50 acres in a developing area and about 70 grand worth of timber on it. I like screwing around out there on the weekends so I was figuring I would pull the timber off myself because if I let someone to do it they will leave stumps and only give me like 1/3 of what the timber is worth. I'll have to up root the trees and hire a laborer to run a saw.. probably could do an acre a weekend and clear it within a couple years and still keep the land viable to sell. I need to do all this while I'm young and have energy.

I'm mainly worried about towing with it I don't twist the frame or something because i'll be pulling heavy through really rough terrain also. It is carb'd so I could probably throw a different intake/carb/cam/exhaust on it to get some more power out of it. A tranny cooler and AC would be nice too and I'd still be ahead by $30,000. I'm kinda liking this idea now.

I'll load the SOB down too, I ain't scared. Most people riding with me in my 1500 pulling a trailer are sweating bullets .

 

For that work, I would look to pick up a small used wheel loader, such as a Case 624 or something. While expensive initially, you'll only need it for about a year or two, it'll tow a trailer around and lift heavy trees. It's a lot safer to work with, and much more handy. It also has a 5.9 B-series! But the best part - I worked with a camp that purchased an '88 624 in fair condition (being generous) for $24k. Three years later, they sold the unit with 1700 additonal hours on it for $33k. You would have no problem turning it around in a few years.

Interesting what you mention about your '04 Hemi - a person I work with is thinking about one, I've tried to encourage him towards the Cummins for this and many other reasons. His final reason for a Hemi instead - "My wife can't put up with some diesel smell."

 

Tell your friend mine's for sale.. I want a cummins bad, but can't justify it unless I sell my current truck.

Yeah, good advice right in line with my thinking. But i'll be towing to the mill instead of hiring someone most likely. But then again I might get someone to do that for me.

I plan on getting a larger dozer because my 450 just won't cut it on what I want to do... If I can get the logs out to the road I could use my forklift to pick them up maybe??

You see dozers pop up for sale often that need paint and minor work. What I can do is pick one of these up fix a couple things on it, use it and then paint it when I'm done and sell it for a profit.


Joe

 

as far as i know the 454 was never conceived as a truck engine,have you ever seen a 60 or 70 series truck with a 454.NO they either got the 366 or 427 with the higher deck height. if you want one with some ***** get an earlier one with the oval port heads,about 78 or so they went to a really small port,they were good for low end to about 2500 rpm's then took a $#it.i have an old 70 454 out of a caprice,that thing has more power then i know what to do with,but it will not pass a gas station.they also run really hot.pop the hood on a 90 degree day and your gonna be stepping back about 5 ft from the heat wave.i had numerous old pickups i put olds 455's in.they had better low end torque,and ran way cooler.plus got lots better milage.

 

If you have the time and inclination, the best domestic v8 engine to put in a truck for pulling, bar none, is the cadillac 500. There are at least two companies that specialize in these engines, and can tell you exactly what you need to put one in any given chassis. This includes chevy trucks. They make FAR more torque than a 454, at lower rpm, and use less fuel doing it. They're also easy to find (at least around here), and for your use, most parts would be stock (read: cheap) in the engine.

 

I think if you look back far enough you will find that the 366 was really the fore runner to the 396- 454 big block motor. IT was the beginning of the tall blocks, long stroke small bore. A guy that owned the FC that I drove had one. Truley lousey gas mileage but it was in a 4500 ??? bigger truck. Ran like crazy with us beating the death out of it. Never saw the best side of 5 mpg even on a good day. It was replaced with a 454 crew cab 1 ton dually. and a new 40 ft GN trailler. It had lot better performance but it never got better than 6mpg towing either. We drove it flat out most of the time which was about 75-80 on flat lands. I'd guess we grossed about 16k maybe a bit more with all our junk on board. I sometimes wonder if my dually would get much better than we did if driven as we did back then. I can get 14+ with the big trailer if I really try and it weighed a bit more. The 454 seemed to be in the shop as much as the racer was. I bet I put 4 rear ends in it (D 70 4.10) and fixed the 4 spd a few times. valve job about ever 15k a few clutches, drive shafts, brakes. We carried as many spare parts for the truck as we did for the FC.

We never blew it up but some race friends killed theirs. Fixing the trans on the side of the road at 2am inthe middle of nowhere wasn't always a lot of fun. Good thing we all got along pretty well as tempers got thin a few times.

I don't remember who it was but someone put a Cat in a chev that kinda started the diesel swap craze It was one pulling truck. Made us looks silly at the gas pumps.

 

The 396 was first. It was released in passenger cars in '65, and in large numbers in '66. I don't know exactly what year the 366 came out, but it was at least a little later than the 396. There's nothing wrong with the tall deck big block chevys-the deck height is enough to put some pretty long strokes in them while maintaining a reasonable rod/stroke ratio. The bottom end of those blocks is beefy enough to withstand some pretty big displacements beating on it without a bunch of trouble.

Anyway, none of this directly bears on your question. I'll say it again-I'd put a cadillac 500 in there if I could.

 

Haha, this is a cool topic, considering that we're combining wheat right now, and one of our little farm trucks has a 366 in it. It is not a bad engine at all and it pulls 300 bushels of wheat well, but I doubt that the fuel mileage is very good ! The other truck has a 2-barrel 350, and it is surprizingly powerful when compared to the 366. The are just small single axle trucks, but it WOULD be kinda cool to drop a P-pumped 5.9 Cummins or a 427 under the hood!

 

I sold my old 94 Chevy 454 ex cab long bed for my 02. It did great on the flats but once I hit the hills it was over. 45mph max up the passes and I could tell it was pushing it hard. The 02 CTD that replaced it laughs at the same loads on the same hills. The only thing that slows me down are traffic and curves. Honestly there's no comparison but a 454 in 2500 chassis would be a better than a 1/2 chassis with a hemi for pulling.

 

Joe - I meant to make this comment before. If you buy the 454 truck, you'll always wonder what the diesel would've been like (especially when you're getting blown away on the hills by other diesels). If you buy the Cummins, you'll forget about ever having had a notion of buying a 454.

- JyRO