My father in law has a 2003 Ford PSD 7.3L. He regularly gets magazines from Ford showing new models. He received one last week, and I happened to be over at his house for Thanksgiving, and I looked through it. On the section where they were talking about the 2005 PSD it said that the 2005 "were now rated for 250,000 mile service life". My 2004.5 manual says that Cummins rates the 5.9 ISD for 350,000 miles. I would have thought that Ford's rating would be closer, at least for marketing sake.

Hmmm, you got an engine (6.0L PSD) full of problems, rated for 100,000 miles less than the Cummins. But yet they are the #1 selling truck in America. What gives?

 

We buy a Cummins engine and settle for a modestly optioned truck.

They buy a Ford for a fully optioned nicer truck (available with a REAL crewcab) and settle for the Power?Stroke engine.

Trade-offs.

Dodge really needs to get it's act together or they're going to lose more customers to the new Super-Duty.
If it came with a Cummins,.....I'd buy one.

 

I would say that they don't get the best of either. I run a F350 dually 7.3L on our SAR team and that thing is a piece of crap. I mean, it runs okay, but it's not a Cummins by any means, and the fit & finish on the truck is nothing like mine, nor is the cab comfort. It may have a bigger back seat, but so what. The front seat blows.

 

The new S-D looks very impressive.

Hmmmmm. I guess looks can be decieving.

 

My brother just went through and completed his second buyback with Ford. The first was a 2003 6.0 and the second one a new 2004. Ridiculous. With that kind of record on the engine, I'll never go back to Ford. I left them in 99 because my 97 PSD was a lemon. Our family just hasn't had good luck with them, and because they have new pretty headlights and a brake controller, that's not enough for me.

 

I don't believe any commercials or ads I see. Everybody lies. #1 truck of the year! #1 best seller of the year! #1 this, #1 that! The facts will remain the facts no matter what the catchy voice on the commercial says. Vehicle history is the only thing that'll tell the real story.

 

The power of advertising. I had to laugh at the last new F150 commercial I saw. they rant on the way the truck is put together. If I remember right they show the truck hanging from 1 bolt. they tell you how this bolt is rated for X amount, then they dramatically tell you how 4 or 6 of these hold the bed on the truck. Whoope do, What good is a bolt with 180,000 lbs shear strength when its put thru paper thin sheet meat. I bet if you hung the truck from the bed tin it would rip right off the frame. Any one dingy enough to buy that one deserves a Ferd.

 

F450 with a Cummins HO and an Allison box for a decent price! Love to see one on a lot!!

 

I always here a lot of squawking about Fords big back seat. Check this out.

2006 Dodge Ram (Scroll down a bit.)

I guess those people will have to pick something else to gripe about that Dodge dosen't have that Ford does. I bought mine BECAUSE it was a Dodge.

 

My dealer just told me that the big back seats are coming. They went to a meeting and got to preveiw the Dodge crew cab. He said that it was an additional 17 inches on the length of the truck with the full crew cab. Probably will be out in 2006 or if they were smart a 2005.5 maybe. I prefer the quad cab as it is big enough for my dog.

 

250,000 mile service life?

Heck, it sounds like most of the 6.0 owners are happy to get 10 or 20,000 miles without seeing a hook or a new engine . Talk about false advertising! I wouldn't want to be near a 6.0 when that 100,000 mile warranty runs out.

Mike

 

A friend of mine bought a 02 Chev duramax, 1 ton dually 4x4, used it for haulung horse trailers accross country. At 80,000 miles the first injector went, $1600, no warrenty, 130,000 miles 2nd injector failed and added coolant to the oil, again no warrenty, cost $3600, At 170,000 miles it experienced a complete system failure, again no warrenty, cost $6500 to repair. He traded it off for $10,000, 1 1/2 yrs old. Almost bankrupt him. The dealer told him the service life was 150,000 miles and it is not worht anything and it was being used for more than it was intended for. I say that should be a crime!!!! So far no attourney wants to touch it for him.
These companies know how to build a vehicle that will run 1,000,000 miles and last 20 years, but they won't build it! They also know how to design in a specific service life so the vehicle is beyond reasonable repair and you junk it forcing you to buy another new one, Which is what they are in business for.
As long as people keep buying this new junk the auto companies will keep producing this short service life junk. Each following year there are always "improvements" made to "correct" or "upgrade" those annoying problems that last years model had. So if you buy a new one it's better. The auto company already knows the full potential of a product before it ever hits the showroom. They design in defects and schedule the upgrades over 5 years. It's called hidden buyer incentives.
I hope I didn't cross the line on liability for this site. If I did I apologise. I have a lot of strong opinions about all automakers over their product development polocies.

Howard

 

Hemi,

This is my Quality/Engineering department rant. My perspective as an outsider looking in.

Your friends expierience and others, is why I went with the Dodge/Cummins. I know first hand, that Ford is having severe problems in their engineering dept in Dearborn. I know many engineers that have left Ford, not a good place to work from what I have been told by MANY of these guys. Ford has lost touch with there most important group of employees, and could care less. It seems that Ford is importing most of their engineering staff from 3rd world countries, forcing out the car guys for a group that has no idea what cars mean to Americans. And even less about how to build one. The stories I have been told over the last ten years would make you laugh and cry. Ford stepped over the line in the diversity dept, way over. They are paying for it now. It also doesn't help that the bean counters run the show either, but that is obvious. Plants run in a state of confusion at times. Poor quality parts are a big problem along with very poor communication.

On the Chrysler engineering side, things seem to be going better since the Daimler take over. Sounds like many of the wounds have healed from the shake up. The Chrysler engineers seem to be more of the old car guys. Everyone I know in the engineering side of things seem satisfied about the way things are going. I get a kick out of some of the hot rods they have built. You can tell they get to have some fun and enjoy their work.

Gm I know less about. Monster corp. that needs a new design team. Quality is debateable, trying to hard to beat the Japs. The few people I know that work there do just that, they work there. Just a job is the impression I get. Plants run like well oiled machines, that I know, at least the ones I have been to.

The Toyota engineers I know, just want to destroy everyone on the quality side of things. It is like a competition with them, one they plan to win. Real intense, car guys of old in the enthusiasm dept.

I don't know if this rambling post means anything, but I see a pattern. I know that my Toyota would have easily lasted 10 years or more. I hope my Dodge can go the distance, I think it will have a good shot. Glad I don't own a Ford, probably never will again, but have in the past. GM? Toyota, never know. We will wait and see as to their new deisel offering, rumored to be a V-10 monster!

Mike

 

Mike,

Interesting info, especially from your perspective. No long rant at all. Interesting and informative. At least it makes me feel better picking the Dodge.

Alan

 

Mike,
That was an interesting take on the situation of Detroit's "Big 3". I have one question though (as far as Ford is concerned): Did Ford engineers design the 6.0L motor or was the motor bought from International/Navistar "as is" with no design help from Ford?

~Rob