Pipes

After 5 turbos, numerous injectors I can honestly say the 03 6.0 I had was the worst motor I have ever owned. However the customer service I got thru Ford was the best I have ever received, they were simply outstanding. I hope these problems are behind them, I love my fleet of 5.9s and love the Dodge product, but Ford will allways get a look from me because of the effort they put forth on a crappy product. Kudos to them for making the effort.

v8440

She better call the Smithsonian Museum NOW. Seriously, unless you're saying people are only neglecting the fords, and are only putting chips and modules on those, you'd have a hard time convincing very many people that fords are reliable. Fact is, they don't hold up much at all compared to the duramax and cummins. There is no huge difference in how their owners treat them, they're just that bad.

BowtiedCTD

well now there you go again generalizing. not all the Fords are alike. Just like no two Dodges are aliek or no two D-Maxs. My brothers 05 has a SuperCHips programmer on it turned all the way up since 400 miles and now has a little over 40,000 on it. 5 sled pulls, pulling trailers loaded with cars and trucks, horse trailers, other trucks, and doing hole shots with loaded gooseneck trailers. and it still will leave posi marks on the pavement and break the rear wheels loose while pulling a 40FT horse trailer with 4 horses in it.in third gear. it probably would be called abused but maintenence is always doen on it and i have since numerous times near or over 40 PSI and the only problem he had was a sensor that broke within 500 miles. but since then absolutely nothing.

and will yall stop bashing ford or chevy and start talking the real terms: Cummins, Isuzu, and International.

Cuz ford does not build the PSD and Dodge doesnt build the CTD, and Chevy doesnt build the D-Max.
Its not a Ford 6.0L anyway its an International 6.0L

ANd VP how many fords have you owned? 7.3L or 6.0L??? Cuz im pretty sure my brothers current truck would walk all over his 97 he had that was pushing over 400HP. and i can honestly say im getting sick of guys saying i heard this from so and so. how do you really know unless you have had the first hand experience. cuz in my honest opinioin, the 6.0L PSD that i have drove would smoke any CTD that i have ever driven. and i mean out pull or 1/4 mile. so for anyone who is wondering the way i would line the engines up would be
7.3L PSD
6.0L PSD
12 valve CTD
D-Max
24 Valve CTD
then the older throw away GM diesels.
but once again these are my opinions from my personal experience.

v8440

Well, considering that I can't possibly know every truck we might talk about, I kinda HAVE to generalize.

Like I said before, owners of 6.0's consistently seem to have more problems than anyone else. That's not my fault, it's just the way it is-I didn't make it that way.

On calling the trucks by who made the truck, or who made the engine, let me put it this way: When you have a problem with, say, your duramax, who do you take the truck to? A chevy dealer, or an Isuzu dealer? Alrighty then, now to ford's problems with the 6.0...yes, ford DID screw the 6.0 up. As weird as that sounds, lemme explain...ford insisted on the HEUI injection system that they use. RUMOR has it that they did that to avoid having to pay Bosch licensing fees on some technology Bosch invented. I don't know if that's true or not, and it really doesn't matter. In any case, the injection system ford uses on the 6.0 is NOT the same setup as what international uses on their non-ford applications of that engine. Guess what-the non-ford versions of the 6.0 are reasonably good engines. Don't believe me? Just check around and do a little research.

You may now think I'm a ford hater, and I couldn't blame you. Actually, I'm not, not at all. But, when they screw something up like they did with this engine, I'm gonna call it how I see it. Believe me when I tell you that I would slam dodge or gm the same way for a problem of the same magnitude.


*Edit* Dodge has screwed up the cummins in one way, in that they have proprietized the electronics enough that cummins can no longer mess with the ecm in a dodge diesel truck. That's right-if you take your late model (I think this applies to all CR motors) dodge to a cummins dealer, their software will be unable to communicate with your ecm. This is BS! I can think of no valid technical reason why they would do that-they simply want to keep owners from having the option of getting cummins to service the engine. Greed, pure and simple.

lanwangeek

I have to comment on this. First I had a 2003 Ford 6.0 which was in the shop 95+ days. It had 18 repair orders with 1 to 6 items per repair order. This truck had no mods (completely stock), and all maintenance was done correctly and on time as Ford was paying for it all. I talked to the dealer in preparing to file the DSB paperwork, and Ford called me the next day to offer a buy back. My truck was one of the Early 6.0L builds.

My replacement truck was a 2005 Ford 6.0 which was stock (except gauges for towing only). It was in the shop for 15 days, to have the engine pulled to fix a oil leak, and a few other problems. But my favorite problem was the intercooler hose that kept blowing off the turbo. I lost count as to how many times this happened. The beinging of the end was when I blew the hose in BFE and had to limp down the highway to fine a exit and a Ford dealer. They fixed it only for it to blow 450 miles later in Kansas City. I ended up having to tie electrical wire around the tube and around the turbo to try to make it home to Louisville KY on that sunday.

Monday, I test drove a dodge, tuesday I dropped of the Ford to be fixed. Wed, I got the truck back and asked why the hose kept blowing off. I was told they didn't know. Everything tested out fine per Ford spec. Thur, I traded for my new Dodge.

Maintainance on the truck was taken care of as I always take care of my vehicles. Maybe to much so at times. I had hoped to drive the truck for a long time. But, I had reached my limit with the Fords breaking down. Am I the norm? I don't know and don't care. I need a truck that will pull my trailer any time and any where without breaking down. Ford had two shots at it and there was not going to be a third.

Good, bad, right or wrong, Ford has some problems and you can't blame it all on Mods or poor maintainance. Anthony
\

Buying the dodge caused my monthly payment to go way up, but if I don't find myself sitting on the side of the road, then it is worth it.

Will I buy a Ford Diesel in the future? Nope. I have no trust in the truck. I will how ever say that the Ford dealer has been the best I have ever deal with.

ruquik

7.3 =
7.3 DT444E =
6.0 =
6.0 VT365 =

JD Dearden

Wow BowtieCTD you are so far out there. I have owned 2 7.3, 2 6.0, and one 24 valve. The way the list should go is.
12 valve
24 valve
7.3 ps
Duramax
6.0 ps
The 12 and 24 valve are easily the most reliable engine. The 7.3 diden't even have an intercooler until 99, and in 99 they went to powder metal rods. Don't know much about the Duramax except what I have heard. The 6.0 has a whole slough of problems from bad injectors to wiring and they like to blow the top of the filters off. If you chip the 6.0 and the 24 valve the 6.0 will have more power. But after that you are done. Not to mention all of the top hp power trucks have always been Cummins. Now Dodge hasen't been perfect either in my opinion they took a turn in I think 03, for instance a real intercooler, brakes that will slow the truck down, and the whole front end problem they had. They absolutly own the market right now I know so many guys who have switched from Ford to Dodge. Ford flat out screwed up with the 6.0.

01smoker

I totally agree with JD.

And to you BowtieCTD, I believe you will be the one eating your words when that "International" 6.0 of your brothers blows sky high. If you honestly think that his 6 uh oh will outrun or pull any CTD out there, you need help. Im sure there are plenty of guys on here that would love to line em up or hook to a load against your brothers truck. If those 6.0s are so great, why don't you just go buy one.

udflyer98

40 psi on the stock Garrett turbo? Considering it's mechanically similar to the turbo on the Duramax I'm calling bull. Over 30 psi is begging to destroy the turbo. I could see getting that kind of boost with an aftermarket turbo assuming the heads don't blow through the hood first.

v8440

I kinda suspected that something wasn't right with all the heroic stuff that particular powerstroke has allegedly done-leaping over hopped up cummins diesels with a single bound, hasn't met a cummins yet it can't stomp, etc etc. I just didn't know anything specific to say in disagreement, so I let it ride. I mean, when you have bone stock 6.0's spitting headgaskets with LOW LOW miles on them, I think you kinda have to wonder. But then again, I don't know the truck he speaks of, so I can't say for sure...

MikeyB

A friend of mine has a bone stock '05 F350 SD CC dually that has turned into a shop queen. Less than 10k on the clock. Loves the truck but hates the engine. And he traded a 2001 SD PS that was pretty reliable for this.
I believe he's ready to lemon law the truck.

MikeyB

Common

His brothers truck has a Jesus air freshener...

96_12V

The understanding is as follows regarding the VP-365 vs. the 6.0 PSD: Ford controls the electronics, programming, and general operating conditions of it's version of a "sourced" engine. They also control the essential shape and displacement of the engines that go under the hood of thier products. The VP-365 and 6.0 PSD are NOT directly interchangable. The initial 6.0 was rated at 330 bhp @ 3300 rpm, most VP 365's were rated more like 230 bhp @ 2800 rpm. Ford asked for a higher-revving, horsepower-intensive engine, and with lots of help from thier own engineering staff and International's that is what they recieved.

The injection systems are fundimentially similar, utilizing the G-2 injection system produced (although not designed by) Siemens Automotive. It is NOT the Cat-based Heui system as utilized in the 7.3 PSD and T-444E that preceeded the current-generation V-shaped International engines. Niether current-production engine utilizes Common-rail injection by Bosch, Siemens, or Deneso and niether engine was designed to utilize it. It would require changing the basic design of the upper-end of the engine to do so, replacing the pressurized oil-rails under the valve covers with a fuel accumulator and providing space for the common-rail pump and injectors instead of the Rexroth pump and the ICP control system.

Arguing from perspectives of product loyality or "seat of the pants" impressions, or simple personal taste is a waste of bandwidth. As an engineer, I am lead to live by the following, allowing others to deal with it's objectivity: "Without data, it's just another opinion."

lovinCTD59

I took my buds on a 5000 miles round trip... Over the rockies and back to puckup a car with a 20 foot flat ben trailer. On the way out, I averaged about 10-11 MPG doing 72MPH.... was back I only got 8-10MPG... Was in the ford dealer twice on that trip, something came loose in the trans and destroyed itself.... And the turbo would just decide to NOT provide boost half way up a grade...went from 55 to 10 MPH with it to the rugs.. Thankfully it was under warranty, and fuel wasnt as expensive as it is now..

1-5R110 Trans
1- Garrett turbo and some fancy relay to control the flappy things in the turbo on the turbine side.
2- new injectors

not bad for a $50,000 truck with only 25k on the ticker....

I have a 2001 7.3 and have had to replace the glow plug relay once, and a TQ converter.. other than that no problems with it, it now has 195,000

Stick with the 7.3 if you want a ford...... Or a cummins!!

01smoker

Bingo!