drove 06 duramax for a week
10-10-2006, 10:06 AM
#91
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I don't know why I'm even posting to this but I guess I have to. I never said the magazines are rags and idiots. If you read my post again you will see that I said he bought into the hype in the mags. Basically you don't buy a truck on the word of a magazine just the same you wouldn't buy a truck based on a dyno graph either. You buy a truck if it fits most of the criteria you listed on a piece of paper before you start your research.
Your bottom line of D'max puts out more is misleading to say the least. I posted the graph from my 6 speed in stock form. It is a little better than what you posted here for the Cummins. Again though, that was my truck on said day on said dyno, etc. The manufacturer can't be trusted either. The only true way to test the trucks are by taking the motors out and mounting each one to an engine dyno. Then you put both back in the trucks and run them on a chassis dyno. Then you run both trucks over let's say a 1000 miles of varied terrain and then you take both trucks to a drag strip. Then you take both trucks to the sled pulls and so on and so on, etc. At that point you will find out which is better. Until then it is all conjecutre and heresay along with your own opinion. If you think you have the best truck then that's great. Why don't you go and tell the rest of your little buddies on a GM web site. If we feel our trucks are the best then this is the place to tell our little buddies. I have not once found the need to go on a GM or Ford web site and "stick up" for my brand of truck. It's silly. I'm more confident in my research than that.
10-10-2006, 10:44 AM
#92
Chapter President
A couple points. LBZ and Fredw obviously feel passionate about their trucks. As do alot here and thats greats. Getting personal just eats away at your credibility, so lets keep it facts only (its tough I know).
I doubt that any DMX supporter would dare put the DMX head to head with the CTD in a 6spd manual competition. One small detail is that the DMX is still only available with a 300/520 engine tune with the ZF6 and would be an unfair disadvantage right back to about 03 production dates vs. the CTD. So lets not go there as even I would take that action with 1 gear less. As far as I can tell and my biz partner (DMX owner) can research, the ZF6 isn't even an option for the 07 production line.
There have been good discussions about dynos. I have run on a SuperFlow load dyno at a heavy truck dealer with one of my earlier trucks. You quickly find out who can only pop the high HP numbers and who "pop's" their engine after trying to hold full power for 15-35 seconds and beyond. The full load dyno starts you off at full speed RPM and then slowly applies load to bring either wheel speed or engine RPM down by a certain percent per time increment. Tough for any engine.
The ability of the DMX engine to administer fuel regardless of air availability or EGT concerns puts a high advantage on the inertia dynos. I know having to keep an eye on the EGT is just one of the realities of owning a CTD, more so than the DMX. With a DMX, most only get concerned when the EGT wraps around and comes back to zero. Even stock DMX ramp over 1500°F, which is just mind boggling for me.
Has the DMX proven itself, surely. I think most CTD guys are not used to having viable competion since the CTD was released. There are some reliability issues that could be improved on, but I think the re-design of the block and having the 4th version of this engine model in 6 years does that. That is not a good stat, but a reality. The re-vamp of the Allison has also answered the call but I find the second overdrive rather useless if you don't have the torque down in the grass. For some reason GM figures that lower RPM means better mileage, not true on any engine.
Anyway, lets keep this thread going. Stripping out the personal attacks, there is good info here...
I doubt that any DMX supporter would dare put the DMX head to head with the CTD in a 6spd manual competition. One small detail is that the DMX is still only available with a 300/520 engine tune with the ZF6 and would be an unfair disadvantage right back to about 03 production dates vs. the CTD. So lets not go there as even I would take that action with 1 gear less. As far as I can tell and my biz partner (DMX owner) can research, the ZF6 isn't even an option for the 07 production line.
There have been good discussions about dynos. I have run on a SuperFlow load dyno at a heavy truck dealer with one of my earlier trucks. You quickly find out who can only pop the high HP numbers and who "pop's" their engine after trying to hold full power for 15-35 seconds and beyond. The full load dyno starts you off at full speed RPM and then slowly applies load to bring either wheel speed or engine RPM down by a certain percent per time increment. Tough for any engine.
The ability of the DMX engine to administer fuel regardless of air availability or EGT concerns puts a high advantage on the inertia dynos. I know having to keep an eye on the EGT is just one of the realities of owning a CTD, more so than the DMX. With a DMX, most only get concerned when the EGT wraps around and comes back to zero. Even stock DMX ramp over 1500°F, which is just mind boggling for me.
Has the DMX proven itself, surely. I think most CTD guys are not used to having viable competion since the CTD was released. There are some reliability issues that could be improved on, but I think the re-design of the block and having the 4th version of this engine model in 6 years does that. That is not a good stat, but a reality. The re-vamp of the Allison has also answered the call but I find the second overdrive rather useless if you don't have the torque down in the grass. For some reason GM figures that lower RPM means better mileage, not true on any engine.
Anyway, lets keep this thread going. Stripping out the personal attacks, there is good info here...
10-10-2006, 10:56 AM
#93
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XLR8R,
so the 650ft/lb of the duramax made 570, and the Cummins 600ft/lbs made 600. Well, the fact that the Cummins has no drive line loss, and obviously chevy must falsely represent the actual power of the D'max must mean Cummins is better. Would have like to have seen a graph, but I'll take your word for it Cummins is better Duramax is weak. Thanks for clearing it all up.
so the 650ft/lb of the duramax made 570, and the Cummins 600ft/lbs made 600. Well, the fact that the Cummins has no drive line loss, and obviously chevy must falsely represent the actual power of the D'max must mean Cummins is better. Would have like to have seen a graph, but I'll take your word for it Cummins is better Duramax is weak. Thanks for clearing it all up.
Posted like a typical flaming troll...Actually, the CTD made 610 ft-lbs, but now I'm sure there's a few of us wondering why the smart-aleck attitude on your part? I didn't make the dyno graphs - just reported my observations.
As someone posted earlier, any opinion or preference is fine, but when you're trying to make a case or a point - it doesn't serve you very well to post with a chip on your shoulder!
As someone posted earlier, any opinion or preference is fine, but when you're trying to make a case or a point - it doesn't serve you very well to post with a chip on your shoulder!
Then XLR8R gives Dyno numbers of an LBZ 570 tq and uncorrected numbers of a Cummins 600 @610tq, so he uses SAE numbers for a D'max and Uncorrected #'s for the Cummins, yea that's honest, so it must be me looking down my nose at the cummins. I never once said this meant the D'max was better, it was mostly supporting the fact that the D'max isn't as weak as some of you would like others to believe, but then some of you seem to take this as an insult or an attack on the Cummins.
So guy's answer me this, why do you feel it is so necessary to say the Cummins is better then the D'max?? and why when anyone brings up any type of supporting information about the D'max being a good truck or making good power, it is always incorrect or means nothing.
So guy's answer me this, why do you feel it is so necessary to say the Cummins is better then the D'max?? and why when anyone brings up any type of supporting information about the D'max being a good truck or making good power, it is always incorrect or means nothing.
BTW - in case you haven't noticed, this is a DODGE forum where most of us LIKE our trucks, which is why we bought them... we honestly believe the CTD is better than the DuraMax.
Sounds like you have an inferiority complex about your engine...
[QUOTE=v8440;1160382]LBZ, you got pretty ugly at one point to a particular member. I already pointed that out, no need to rehash that.
QUOTE]
I'd like to point that out again; his petulant posting needs rehashing since he's still insulting forum members.
FredW displays a great example of how to disagree in a civil manner - he's already earned our respect.
10-10-2006, 10:58 AM
#94
Chapter President
Fredw has opted to come to our chapter events and even has set up dyno events, Drag races in our area for the Alberta chapter to attend. He doesn't hide behind a keyboard. FWIW....
10-10-2006, 11:09 AM
#96
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that was some interesting information about the GM 6-speed. i had no idea it wasnt at the same hp/trq levels as the allison spec'd truck. and i was mentioned before about the magazine testing. why not do apples to apples instead or apples to oranges. the 48re is a nice unit, but when paired against fords 5 speed and the allison, there isnt going to be an equal test. yes, thats standard equipment, but why not do manual trannys vs manual? ill say it again the dmax isnt a bad motor at all, but if anyone tries to come here and talk down about the ctd, whether right or wrong, some people are going to be offended. i dont know how it is on other manufactures forums but i wouldnt go there saying things about there trucks...just a thought. those of you that are here to learn about diesel's like me, then welcome thats awesome and there is alot of informations floating around here
brett
brett
10-10-2006, 11:28 AM
#98
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V8440,
I would hardly say I got ugly. Second you always by a truck that fits your needs. Who makes the most power or is fastest doesn't mean much if you're not happy with the purchase. I wouldn't expect you to sell or trade that has nothing to do with the topic. Point was to contradict the fact the D'max's cant hold there own.
Staarma
,"Your bottom line of D'max puts out more, is misleading to say the least" why is it mis-leading? is it more misleading then saying magazine info on the D'max is all hype.
Why don't I tell my buddies over at the GM site how great my truck is, why bother, they already own one, so they know. I don't ever believe I stated or claimed how great my truck was, you some how imagine that I say this, simply because I disagreed with your comments about the D'max. My disputing your comments about the D'max somehow in your mind is me claiming my D'max is better, You're the one who keeps stating I think my truck is better, not me. I only supplied information from different sources and you dispute it. Besides I wouldn't have to defend my truck if you didn't misrepresent it in THE GENERAL DIESEL DISCUSSION section.
I would hardly say I got ugly. Second you always by a truck that fits your needs. Who makes the most power or is fastest doesn't mean much if you're not happy with the purchase. I wouldn't expect you to sell or trade that has nothing to do with the topic. Point was to contradict the fact the D'max's cant hold there own.
Staarma
,"Your bottom line of D'max puts out more, is misleading to say the least" why is it mis-leading? is it more misleading then saying magazine info on the D'max is all hype.
Why don't I tell my buddies over at the GM site how great my truck is, why bother, they already own one, so they know. I don't ever believe I stated or claimed how great my truck was, you some how imagine that I say this, simply because I disagreed with your comments about the D'max. My disputing your comments about the D'max somehow in your mind is me claiming my D'max is better, You're the one who keeps stating I think my truck is better, not me. I only supplied information from different sources and you dispute it. Besides I wouldn't have to defend my truck if you didn't misrepresent it in THE GENERAL DIESEL DISCUSSION section.
10-10-2006, 12:17 PM
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LBZ Power...
I used to be a die hard GM guy too. After owning 3 6.2's, 2 6.5's and being totally disgusted with the "new godsend" from GM I looked to the Powerstroke. We all know where that led. Now I'm onto Dodge and I think, in my opinion if it's ok with you, that it is the best on the market. I'm sorry if you take that as your trucks sucks but if the shoe fits......
I think all of the trucks are good trucks. I am starting to like the GM if they could just stick to one design. 4 motors and 3 trannies in 6 years isn't great but they are getting it. I really hope Ford comes around too. The big three need to keep going in the heavy truck market. Very soon Toyota and Nissan are introducing their heavy duty trucks with diesels and I think it may get ugly.
GM is the best, Dodge is the best, Ford is the best. How's that.
I used to be a die hard GM guy too. After owning 3 6.2's, 2 6.5's and being totally disgusted with the "new godsend" from GM I looked to the Powerstroke. We all know where that led. Now I'm onto Dodge and I think, in my opinion if it's ok with you, that it is the best on the market. I'm sorry if you take that as your trucks sucks but if the shoe fits......
I think all of the trucks are good trucks. I am starting to like the GM if they could just stick to one design. 4 motors and 3 trannies in 6 years isn't great but they are getting it. I really hope Ford comes around too. The big three need to keep going in the heavy truck market. Very soon Toyota and Nissan are introducing their heavy duty trucks with diesels and I think it may get ugly.
GM is the best, Dodge is the best, Ford is the best. How's that.
10-10-2006, 02:01 PM
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staarma,
wrong size shoe, as far as 4 motors and 3 trannys in 6 years, I would still rather have a company that attempts to perfect it's product buy making changes then one that sits idlely by and does nothing. Plus when GM had problems with injectors they stepped up to the plate and warrantied them to the owners for 200,000 miles. Well now that the cat's out of the bag you simply don't like GM based on past experiences and that's fine. I'm also not a die hard GM fan, I really don't care what I drive, as long as if fits my needs.
XLR8R, respect is a two way street, I've been a member here for years originally with the screen name Bulldogger. After changing computers and servers I couldn't get back on because I had a problem with it saying yahoo e-mail wasn't accepted and my screen name was already in use, yea I was using it but couldn't log back on.
Lil-dog your probably right about the guys not being use to any competiton, but you couldn't be farther from the truth about hiding behind a keyboard. Too bad you in Canada, I'm out on Long Island and would have no problems comming to any events you have other then the distance to Canada. I can guarantee if you met me in person you wouldn't make the key board comment.
wrong size shoe, as far as 4 motors and 3 trannys in 6 years, I would still rather have a company that attempts to perfect it's product buy making changes then one that sits idlely by and does nothing. Plus when GM had problems with injectors they stepped up to the plate and warrantied them to the owners for 200,000 miles. Well now that the cat's out of the bag you simply don't like GM based on past experiences and that's fine. I'm also not a die hard GM fan, I really don't care what I drive, as long as if fits my needs.
XLR8R, respect is a two way street, I've been a member here for years originally with the screen name Bulldogger. After changing computers and servers I couldn't get back on because I had a problem with it saying yahoo e-mail wasn't accepted and my screen name was already in use, yea I was using it but couldn't log back on.
Lil-dog your probably right about the guys not being use to any competiton, but you couldn't be farther from the truth about hiding behind a keyboard. Too bad you in Canada, I'm out on Long Island and would have no problems comming to any events you have other then the distance to Canada. I can guarantee if you met me in person you wouldn't make the key board comment.
cant we all just get along
10-10-2006, 02:28 PM
#104
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LBZ, why are you threatening people now.
The comment lil' dog made was in reference to the fact that Fred has actually come to some events and met the people and interfaced with some of these guys as truck enthusiasts. No where did I see where he challenged you except to a drag race at the strip, etc. to show your trucks abilities instead of writing it down. You have a real chip on your shoulder and I don't understand why. You need to relax and enjoy life and your truck a little more.Flame away I'm done with this
10-10-2006, 02:42 PM
#105
Registered User
LBZ,
Quote "Plus when GM had problems with injectors they stepped up to the plate" Then why will GM not step up to the plate this time with all of the over heating problems with the Second Generation LLY engine, years 2004.5 to 2005.
GM said, Oh there's not an Over Heating problem, you tow to much weight with your Duramax truck. Yep, no problem GM went and made the LBZ engine, it fixed the OH problem. They still claim they never had problems with any diesel engine over heating,
Any One can read all about it on the Diesel Place forums, http://dieselplace.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=40!
My $0.02
Quote "Plus when GM had problems with injectors they stepped up to the plate" Then why will GM not step up to the plate this time with all of the over heating problems with the Second Generation LLY engine, years 2004.5 to 2005.
GM said, Oh there's not an Over Heating problem, you tow to much weight with your Duramax truck. Yep, no problem GM went and made the LBZ engine, it fixed the OH problem. They still claim they never had problems with any diesel engine over heating,
Any One can read all about it on the Diesel Place forums, http://dieselplace.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=40!My $0.02