Dodge losing the Cummins
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Dodge losing the Cummins
News article from Diesel Progress:
Industry News
Fiat Mulling Iveco Engine For Dodge Ram?
November 4, 2009
Almost since it began supplying diesel engines for Dodge’s Ram pickup truck in the late 1980s, there have been near-constant rumors and reports that Cummins Inc. was about to lose the business. Through the years however, the Columbus, Ind., engine manufacturer managed to maintain its position and earn a sort of cult following among pickup truck enthusiasts and in the process, sell an average of more than 100,000 engines a year to Dodge.
With the change in Dodge’s corporate status, once again the reports are beginning to circulate that Cummins is in danger of losing the Dodge business. According to a report in the most recent issue of Stark’s Truck & Off-Highway Ledger, a business publication covering the design, manufacture and sales of light, medium and heavy-duty trucks, truck trailers, mobile farm equipment and mobile construction machinery, Fiat S.p.A., which is in control of Dodge parent Chrysler Group LLC, may discontinue sourcing engines from Cummins and is considering replacing the Cummins Turbo Diesel engine with an Iveco engine, built by a Fiat subsidiary.
The change could come as soon as the 2011 model year, according to the Stark’s report, which is attributed to a company source. Stark’s said its source indicated that Chrysler engineers are reviewing Iveco engine specifications, especially as it pertains to weight and emissions issues. A decision is expected by the end of the year, the Ledger report said.
Adding additional spice to the report is the fact that for nearly eight years, Fiat, through its Iveco and New Holland subsidiaries, was part of an engine-related joint venture with Cummins, the European Engine Alliance (EEA), As part of that alliance, companies cooperated in the development of a range of engines, including a 6.7 L diesel similar to the engine used in the Ram. The alliance ended in 2008, in part because of a strategy by Fiat to have its own Fiat Powertrain Technologies (FPT) subsidiary be the primary engine supplier to Fiat companies.
For its part, Cummins expressed confidence that it would survive this challenge as it has all the others. “Cummins and Chrysler have a great partnership that's more than 20 years old, and we expect the partnership to remain strong,” said Cummins in a statement provided to Diesel Progress. Cummins added that the Ram Tubro Diesel engine is “the most proven, with three years’ experience at the 2010 emission levels.”
“The Dodge Ram heavy-duty truck and Cummins Turbo Diesel have great loyalty with our mutual customers, and Dodge sells a higher percentage of diesel heavy-duty pickup trucks than competitive brands,” the Cummins statement concluded. “Cummins will continue to work to earn the Dodge Ram business and to create loyalty for the Cummins Turbo Diesel in the Dodge Ram trucks.”
Industry News
Fiat Mulling Iveco Engine For Dodge Ram?
November 4, 2009
Almost since it began supplying diesel engines for Dodge’s Ram pickup truck in the late 1980s, there have been near-constant rumors and reports that Cummins Inc. was about to lose the business. Through the years however, the Columbus, Ind., engine manufacturer managed to maintain its position and earn a sort of cult following among pickup truck enthusiasts and in the process, sell an average of more than 100,000 engines a year to Dodge.
With the change in Dodge’s corporate status, once again the reports are beginning to circulate that Cummins is in danger of losing the Dodge business. According to a report in the most recent issue of Stark’s Truck & Off-Highway Ledger, a business publication covering the design, manufacture and sales of light, medium and heavy-duty trucks, truck trailers, mobile farm equipment and mobile construction machinery, Fiat S.p.A., which is in control of Dodge parent Chrysler Group LLC, may discontinue sourcing engines from Cummins and is considering replacing the Cummins Turbo Diesel engine with an Iveco engine, built by a Fiat subsidiary.
The change could come as soon as the 2011 model year, according to the Stark’s report, which is attributed to a company source. Stark’s said its source indicated that Chrysler engineers are reviewing Iveco engine specifications, especially as it pertains to weight and emissions issues. A decision is expected by the end of the year, the Ledger report said.
Adding additional spice to the report is the fact that for nearly eight years, Fiat, through its Iveco and New Holland subsidiaries, was part of an engine-related joint venture with Cummins, the European Engine Alliance (EEA), As part of that alliance, companies cooperated in the development of a range of engines, including a 6.7 L diesel similar to the engine used in the Ram. The alliance ended in 2008, in part because of a strategy by Fiat to have its own Fiat Powertrain Technologies (FPT) subsidiary be the primary engine supplier to Fiat companies.
For its part, Cummins expressed confidence that it would survive this challenge as it has all the others. “Cummins and Chrysler have a great partnership that's more than 20 years old, and we expect the partnership to remain strong,” said Cummins in a statement provided to Diesel Progress. Cummins added that the Ram Tubro Diesel engine is “the most proven, with three years’ experience at the 2010 emission levels.”
“The Dodge Ram heavy-duty truck and Cummins Turbo Diesel have great loyalty with our mutual customers, and Dodge sells a higher percentage of diesel heavy-duty pickup trucks than competitive brands,” the Cummins statement concluded. “Cummins will continue to work to earn the Dodge Ram business and to create loyalty for the Cummins Turbo Diesel in the Dodge Ram trucks.”
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From: Claxton, GA
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Before we all jump to conclusions, I would invite each of us to take a look at the Case-New Holland Website. Back in the late 1990's, their engines were nearly 100% Cummins-sourced, expect for a few small Perkins models. Oddly, they didn't advertise the "Cummins" name (never understood that one) but instead had a joint venture company formed called "Consolidated Diesel Coporation (CDC).
Now - with a few notable exceptions, all thier engines are Iveco engines. If they can change the sourcing at Case, they (Fiat) can do it with any company they have a handle on.
Believe me, I HOPE this dosen't happen. However with the way the vast majority of Americans (execpt us on here) are in love with the "NEW" thing, it might appeal to some. Look at how people are "flocking" to the Ford 6.7L Powerstroke, as it's something "NEW!"
I would not want it. But it may be inevitable.
Now - with a few notable exceptions, all thier engines are Iveco engines. If they can change the sourcing at Case, they (Fiat) can do it with any company they have a handle on.
Believe me, I HOPE this dosen't happen. However with the way the vast majority of Americans (execpt us on here) are in love with the "NEW" thing, it might appeal to some. Look at how people are "flocking" to the Ford 6.7L Powerstroke, as it's something "NEW!"
I would not want it. But it may be inevitable.
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From: Melbourne, Florida
Let them flock to that Ferd engine. Some one will use that Urea tank for something that sounds like urea. It will be in the shop the first year with computer problems.
I don't understand why dodge is going with the urea on the 4500/5500 2010engines. Might have something to do with diesel fuel delution in the crankcase. ?? Thats another conversation.
Dave
I don't understand why dodge is going with the urea on the 4500/5500 2010engines. Might have something to do with diesel fuel delution in the crankcase. ?? Thats another conversation.
Dave
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From: Cummins Technical Center, IN
Before we all jump to conclusions, I would invite each of us to take a look at the Case-New Holland Website. Back in the late 1990's, their engines were nearly 100% Cummins-sourced, expect for a few small Perkins models. Oddly, they didn't advertise the "Cummins" name (never understood that one) but instead had a joint venture company formed called "Consolidated Diesel Coporation (CDC).
Now - with a few notable exceptions, all thier engines are Iveco engines. If they can change the sourcing at Case, they (Fiat) can do it with any company they have a handle on.
Believe me, I HOPE this dosen't happen. However with the way the vast majority of Americans (execpt us on here) are in love with the "NEW" thing, it might appeal to some. Look at how people are "flocking" to the Ford 6.7L Powerstroke, as it's something "NEW!"
I would not want it. But it may be inevitable.
Now - with a few notable exceptions, all thier engines are Iveco engines. If they can change the sourcing at Case, they (Fiat) can do it with any company they have a handle on.
Believe me, I HOPE this dosen't happen. However with the way the vast majority of Americans (execpt us on here) are in love with the "NEW" thing, it might appeal to some. Look at how people are "flocking" to the Ford 6.7L Powerstroke, as it's something "NEW!"
I would not want it. But it may be inevitable.
CDC is actually the original home of the B series. C/NH was the customer that partially paid for the development of the original B, and this JV was created to manufacture engines for C/NH.
Ironically enough, I just called CDC yesterday.
Anyway, to this day, industrial B engines are made primarily at Rocky Mount. (RMEP). Dodge Truck engines are made here in Columbus.
If the IVECO is a great engine, better than a Cummins, then Dodge would be smart to use them, even if the marketing would be tough.
Then again, look how well marketing has sold inferior Ford products?
JMO
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From: Saskaberia, SK
Iveco is the largest manufacturer of diesel industrial and truck engines over 70 horsepower in the world. I think it would be a mistake for dodge to drop Cummins, but Iveco makes a very good motor as well. Many are used in Case N/H agriculture applications. I was using one last weekend combining VERY wet wheat, 493 HP and chewing through 23 GPH. It was impressive.
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From: Auburn, WA
Maybe, Dodge or Ram or whatever they're called can use a couple smaller Iveco diesels in the 1/2 tons, midsize trucks, jeeps, etc.
Anyone see a new truck commercial where they only advertise it as "Ram"?
Saw it last night during the football game.
Anyone see a new truck commercial where they only advertise it as "Ram"?
Saw it last night during the football game.
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From: Streator Illinois
Bought it for the Cummins, not really interested in learning to speak friggin Italian.
I will stay with Cummins, thank you very much. I have a torch, welder and a shop, so whatever truck fits my need can still be Cummins powered.
I will stay with Cummins, thank you very much. I have a torch, welder and a shop, so whatever truck fits my need can still be Cummins powered.
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From: Saint Ignatius, MT
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From: Shelby NC
I will begin by saying I am not in favor of this at all. I like my cummins and would hope that when I need and can afford to buy a new truck the cummins would be available, but to look at this from a buisness point of view it makes sense. If the Fiat motor has comparable power, fuel consumption, and longeviety at a cheaper price then it makes sense. The reason I say cheaper is not to say the motor is cheaper, but because it can be built in house and not outsourced it could be cheaper. If you were running the company and you had the choice between using one of your own proudcts at a lower price or outsourcing a motor, which one would you choose. I for one hope the cummins stays and this could only be a corprate ploy to get cummins to drop the price on their proudct. Until it is completely played out we don't know. I don't nessecarly agree with changing the product, but I understand the reasoning.
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From: Jersey
I guess the real question I have behind this one is it another rumor just floating around to stir things up or is dodge actually considering this. I've never actually HEARD of this Iveco engine till now. I like the cummins. Its why I'm here.
It would obviously be a big mistake to drop cummins. And if they do, this new Iveco engine would have alot of ground to hold on its own. Meeting all that emmisions crap and still be able to hold the 350,000 mile factory recommended overhaul interval? Thats asking alot of an engine company I've never heard of. Either way, I don't even know if this is actually true or if Chrysler would be stupid enough to drop a different engine in. By the responses it doesn't seem like anybody else has heard of this either till... well now.
It would obviously be a big mistake to drop cummins. And if they do, this new Iveco engine would have alot of ground to hold on its own. Meeting all that emmisions crap and still be able to hold the 350,000 mile factory recommended overhaul interval? Thats asking alot of an engine company I've never heard of. Either way, I don't even know if this is actually true or if Chrysler would be stupid enough to drop a different engine in. By the responses it doesn't seem like anybody else has heard of this either till... well now.
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From: Yuba city Kalifornia
If Cummins gets dropped it would be a huge mistake, and a big gain for the one who picks up the cummins and puts it in there rig. besides try getting parts for Iveco not as easy as Cummins